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Unix · February 17, 2011

It's not as easy as it sounds, taking an item away from a player just because it is a "rotating item" or "one time item".
Why?
Because the item is "rotating or a one time deal" 1> they wouldn't buy it in the first place 2> knowing that if rotates getting that item taken off their ship

Then you would put in more like, "Well you can do this?". No gray areas are wanted.

Are you telling me players wont buy rotating items just simply because later down the line it'll be taken away? If that's the case, none of us would play Hyperspace. It's more about making builds and having fun with them. You can try it out with a few items, like 2-3 to see if people are willing to play with them if they're on a rotating basis, if they are, good, if not, not a huge loss and you dont have to do a rotating item system anymore.

It seems one fell swoop is still the best option. Possibly at the time of a reset.

If I remember correctly, that's what happened with the current item set. A reset occurred and Arnk's item set was put into place very suddenly. Good and bad I suppose. If we do it in one fell swoop, we wouldnt be able to see any effects an item would have in game play until the game/money was well established to the point a majority of people could afford it.

Adding in items into the current item set is probably best, maybe not right "now", but later down the line when the money/exp settle down. A big reason why this item set didnt take full effect until a long while was mainly because no one knew anything. It took about 3-4 weeks until someone actually started rushing successfully.

Dr Brain · February 17, 2011

I don't have any personal objection to a new item set. The problem is a practical one: trusting someone with database access is extremely risky.

P Nut · February 17, 2011

Could you set up a separate database where someone could edit and play with values? The final product can be uploaded by yourself or another established SysOp. Edited February 17, 2011 by P Nut

Unix · February 17, 2011

Is there anything really wrong about the current item set other than it being stagnant? If we can infuse the current item set with close to a dozen items, I'm sure that can change the item set around. This solution is less complicated and can be implemented rather quickly. I'm not sure whether you need database access to make items or not, but even if it is needed, you can have it written down, then have a SysOp or whoever make the change/add items.

P Nut · February 17, 2011

The only problem I have with the current set is that it is very polarized. One item will favor recharge, and its counterpart will favor energy. Most of the items follow this pattern. I figured if we were going to have an abundant set with a lot of variety and choices, we should steer clear of this pattern.

Dr Brain · February 18, 2011

Which patterns did you have in mind?

Also, there's no reason I have to make a database. Someone can set it up from that SQL file I uploaded somewhere. Perhaps someone can dig up the link.

BZAP · February 18, 2011

I feel that the itemset we have right now is well thought out and for the most part, balanced. However new items would be a blast to play around with. The changes don't need to be drastic. An idea mentioned before were signatures guns that combined 2 non-signature weapons. For example, toggling multifire could switch between beam array and shredder.

I also think it would be great to have mounts that acted like mini-addon slots rather than item slots. For example you could sacrifice a repel mount for a VERY minor boost, like -5 bombdamage or a few extra points of energy. It could reduce "item spam" and would make playing on my netbook easier.

Edited February 18, 2011 by BZAP

Unix · February 18, 2011

The only problem I have with the current set is that it is very polarized. One item will favor recharge, and its counterpart will favor energy. Most of the items follow this pattern. I figured if we were going to have an abundant set with a lot of variety and choices, we should steer clear of this pattern.

I think that's more in regards to reactors and one addon though.

This is also due in large part because that's how the "current" items are. If you were to add more items that did different things, I believe that would fix your ideas of polarization. In Wolfie's previous post about new items, I suggested an addon where it was similar to system optimizer, but concentrated more on system efficiency. A small difference, but a difference that could easily be felt with the right weapons and pilot.

Kilo · February 18, 2011

Diluting the roles of items is not ideal either.

P Nut · February 18, 2011

Which patterns did you have in mind?

I don't. I haven't thought that far ahead. Only brainstorming at this point.

Cheese · February 18, 2011

the patterns i had in mind were the completely random ones

-10 bombdelay

+200 ebombtime

+5 shrap

-3 rotation

-2 speed

pointdefense

lvl=1

multi=0

bounce=0

detect radius=10

delay=50

+3 speed

-2 thr

Emit · February 20, 2011

d1 i'll join this committee of yours, you know how well our committee goes

PlayWolf · February 21, 2011

Good think I can scroll past the tl;dr stuff and read the actual good stuff.

CDB-Man · February 23, 2011

The problem is not with items, or access to databases. The problem is that noone is actively developing. If someone made a new set of items ready, we could ask a sysop to upload. The problem is just asking (a team of) people who are trustable design new items which are not unbalanced.

Unix · February 23, 2011

CDB, the effect of not having people develop is because even if a group of players were to develop them even now, they wouldnt be put up. In another topic where items were being suggested, the staff believed that none of those items were worthy for whatever reason. If players dont believe their effort will be put to good use, then why would they even try in the first place? Even if the items arent "balanced" in the eyes of the Sysops, they could easily balance them out and keep the purpose of the items intact, yet none of those items that were suggested had that done.

Currently my theory about the zone is that it's replay value is declined, especially since little content has been added. The best analogy I can come up with is, if you were to play a RPG and restart from the beginning over and over, with no change in the story, items and gameplay. It's just the same over and over. Eventually it's bound to get stale.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Unix

spidernl · February 23, 2011

CDB, the effect of not having people develop is because even if a group of players were to develop them even now, they wouldnt be put up. In another topic where items were being suggested, the staff believed that none of those items were worthy for whatever reason. If players dont believe their effort will be put to good use, then why would they even try in the first place? Even if the items arent "balanced" in the eyes of the Sysops, they could easily balance them out and keep the purpose of the items intact, yet none of those items that were suggested had that done.

Currently my theory about the zone is that it's replay value is declined, especially since little content has been added. The best analogy I can come up with is, if you were to play a RPG and restart from the beginning over and over, with no change in the story, items and gameplay. It's just the same over and over. Eventually it's bound to get stale.

Suggest an item then. So far balance was hardly the only problem with your suggestions.

Edited February 23, 2011 by spidernl

Unix · February 23, 2011

+------------------+
| Venting Coils  |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $30000    | $23000     | 4500  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Armor                          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Venting Coils are effective at protecting from bomb and burst shrapnel.                             |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| inactshrapdamage | -5             |
| shrapdamage      | -175           |
| burstdamage      | -75            |
| bombdamage       | -5             |
+------------------+----------------+

+------------------+
| Cyclone          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $52000    | $21000     | 6200  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Bomb, Signature                |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Cyclone fires medium yield bombs. Its strength comes in being able to shoot bombs very rapidly while also allowing other items to be launched rapidly. The consecutive damage potential can be deadly. |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| bomblevel        | +2             |
| bombdelay        | =15            |
| bombenergy       | =265           |
| maxmines         | =4             |
| minedelay        | =100           |
| mineenergy       | =250           |
+------------------+----------------+

+-------------------+
| Efficiency Booster|
+-----------+-------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $65000    | $25000     | 7000  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Signature, Addon               |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| The efficiency booster offers small upgrades in a wide variety of areas that normally are overlooked. |
+------------------+----------------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| recharge         | +1             |
| bulletenergy     | -2             |
| bombenergy       | -20            |
| multienergy      | -2             |
| mineenergy       | -20            |
| bombdelay        | -5             |
| jittertime       | -10            |
| afterburner      | -2             |
| stealthenergy    | -75            |
| cloakenergy      | -350           |
| antiwarpenergy   | -120           |
+------------------+----------------+

Kilo · February 23, 2011

Unix, you have no concept of game balance. Not all of the ideas in other threads were shot down. Pretty much mostly yours. You keep suggesting the same crap, maybe you should get better ideas. Every time I see you post something, it is always "let's make easy mode item that is so much better than everything else." Or, alternatively, "wow it's not fair I have to spend a signature slot to get this super awesome capability so let's make a watered down version that isn't sig--because it obviously will be balanced then!"

Everyone else makes mistakes but they learn from them. You don't seem to.

PlayWolf · February 23, 2011

-loud to a faint whistle...- kaboom I would say.

spidernl · February 23, 2011

Let's discuss these items individually, eh?

+------------------+
| Venting Coils  |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $30000    | $23000     | 4500  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Armor                          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Venting Coils are effective at protecting from bomb and burst shrapnel.                             |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| inactshrapdamage | -5             |
| shrapdamage      | -175           |
| burstdamage      | -75            |
| bombdamage       | -5             |
+------------------+----------------+

Why is this item necessary, it looks surprisingly much like radiating coils with smaller numbers and without the 'Signature' item type?

+------------------+
| Cyclone          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $52000    | $21000     | 6200  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Bomb, Signature                |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Cyclone fires medium yield bombs. Its strength comes in being able to shoot bombs very rapidly while also allowing other items to be launched rapidly. The consecutive damage potential can be deadly. |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| bomblevel        | +2             |
| bombdelay        | =15            |
| bombenergy       | =265           |
| maxmines         | =4             |
| minedelay        | =100           |
| mineenergy       | =250           |
+------------------+----------------+

Extremely low bomb delay. It was overpowered back in the day, it still would be.

Edit: Let's not even start about the damage potential this has on a non-emp ship. When DPS is in a range that's several times that of existing items, it's not balanced.

+-------------------+
| Efficiency Booster|
+-----------+-------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $65000    | $25000     | 7000  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Signature, Addon               |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| The efficiency booster offers small upgrades in a wide variety of areas that normally are overlooked. |
+------------------+----------------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| recharge         | +1             |
| bulletenergy     | -2             |
| bombenergy       | -20            |
| multienergy      | -2             |
| mineenergy       | -20            |
| bombdelay        | -5             |
| jittertime       | -10            |
| afterburner      | -2             |
| stealthenergy    | -75            |
| cloakenergy      | -350           |
| antiwarpenergy   | -120           |
+------------------+----------------+

What makes this item unique? It looks like an alternative system optimizer.

And, newsflash, we already have a system optimizer item.

Edited February 23, 2011 by spidernl

PlayWolf · February 23, 2011

I still like my bad idea of a Parallel Delay har har

3+ nrg -1 recharge

+1 afterburn

+100 ebombtime

+50 ebombdamage

-1 explodepixel

then yet... buying 2 addons of the same.. just opposite, grr..

Put this in emitters! HAH

No then it'd be the same.. (had to post a few times)

Edited February 23, 2011 by Wolfie

Unix · February 23, 2011

Unix, you have no concept of game balance. Not all of the ideas in other threads were shot down. Pretty much mostly yours. You keep suggesting the same crap, maybe you should get better ideas. Every time I see you post something, it is always "let's make easy mode item that is so much better than everything else." Or, alternatively, "wow it's not fair I have to spend a signature slot to get this super awesome capability so let's make a watered down version that isn't sig--because it obviously will be balanced then!"

Everyone else makes mistakes but they learn from them. You don't seem to.

If not all the ideas were shot down in the previous thread, why havent we seen a new item in nearly two years if not more? You even said that if someone laid down the groundwork and you approved of it, you would put it up.

The items that I suggested might be overpowered in your opinion, so if in fact they are, change the variables so that they arent overpowered. These items would be extremely useful.

You claim the items would be a watered down version of a sig, but a lot of the items are watered down versions of sigs and some sigs are simply two weapons combined into one. Sharppinger is just a faster phaser. Quad Core is essentially Jedlik Dynamo without the negatives. Positron is a faster and more energy efficient Disruptor. It sure seems that you do have a lot of watered down versions of items.

Let's discuss these items individually, eh?

+------------------+
| Venting Coils  |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $30000    | $23000     | 4500  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Armor                          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Venting Coils are effective at protecting from bomb and burst shrapnel.                             |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| inactshrapdamage | -5             |
| shrapdamage      | -175           |
| burstdamage      | -75            |
| bombdamage       | -5             |
+------------------+----------------+

Why is this item necessary, it looks surprisingly much like radiating coils with smaller numbers and without the 'Signature' item type?

Can you name another item other than Exo and Radiating that is meant to go against bombs that cause inactshrap? Venting Coils might be like Radiating Coils, but that's the point. The purpose was to make a much weaker version of Radiating Coils, and I'm sure plenty of players would use this armor, not only to base, but to also use outside of base to defend against bombs like falcon.

+------------------+
| Cyclone          |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $52000    | $21000     | 6200  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Bomb, Signature                |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+--------------------------------+
| Cyclone fires medium yield bombs. Its strength comes in being able to shoot bombs very rapidly while also allowing other items to be launched rapidly. The consecutive damage potential can be deadly. |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| bomblevel        | +2             |
| bombdelay        | =15            |
| bombenergy       | =265           |
| maxmines         | =4             |
| minedelay        | =100           |
| mineenergy       | =250           |
+------------------+----------------+

Extremely low bomb delay. It was overpowered back in the day, it still would be.

Edit: Let's not even start about the damage potential this has on a non-emp ship. When DPS is in a range that's several times that of existing items, it's not balanced.

Then increase the bomb delay slightly. The entire point is to have a bomb better than salvo, but since it is a sig item, most players might not even want it to rush. A lot of players want that combo mount to rush, and I'm sure there would be plenty who would still be in favor of more specials instead of being able to shoot them faster.

If you're worried about the damage potential, then make the cost of shooting higher, or at the extreme, put it to an EMP ship only. I would think raising the cost of this, then allowing only the med/heavy ships possibly? There are lots of choices to make this item "balanced" according to you.

+-------------------+
| Efficiency Booster|
+-----------+-------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| Buy Price | Sell Price | Exp   | Ships    | Max | Ammo             | Item Types                     |
| $65000    | $25000     | 7000  | 1234567  | 1   | None             | Signature, Addon               |
+-----------+------+-----+-------+----------+-----+------------------+---------------------------------+
| The efficiency booster offers small upgrades in a wide variety of areas that normally are overlooked. |
+------------------+----------------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Property Name    | Property Value |
+------------------+----------------+
| recharge         | +1             |
| bulletenergy     | -2             |
| bombenergy       | -20            |
| multienergy      | -2             |
| mineenergy       | -20            |
| bombdelay        | -5             |
| jittertime       | -10            |
| afterburner      | -2             |
| stealthenergy    | -75            |
| cloakenergy      | -350           |
| antiwarpenergy   | -120           |
+------------------+----------------+

What makes this item unique? It looks like an alternative system optimizer.

And, newsflash, we already have a system optimizer item.

What makes this item unique is that it helps weapons in comparison to the system op helping in your overall ship. Combining this item, along with shell for example would allow your ship to have a -3 bullet cost. This item also has bombdelay decrease, alongside having your weapons just be cheaper. Last I checked, System Op doesnt do that. System Op concentrates more on the ship's maneuverability, whereas this item would increase it's killing efficiency.

PlayWolf · February 23, 2011

Of course making system optimizer obsolete, good job.

Kilo · February 24, 2011

If not all the ideas were shot down in the previous thread, why havent we seen a new item in nearly two years if not more? You even said that if someone laid down the groundwork and you approved of it, you would put it up.

Logical fallacy. My failure to put up new items does not mean no approval has been given, or that all items were shot down.

Emit · February 24, 2011

BRING BACK SUPERCOMPUTER

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