Incursions!

[Avast]

First post indeed, account no.

 

Anyway,

You've have many good points and ideas over the years but also many people disagree with.

Basically you post your opinion on everything, even if you had no idea or experience on

the subject. That's why people disagree with you so much.

 

A load of DSB'ers still consider you more harmful than beneficial. Whatever you may think.

No, I'm not talking about myself here. Just the general picture I've heard people have

on you.

 

I'm sorry to disappoint you but your ban had nothing to do with the changes.

 

Why exactly would I have no experience on a subject? I played just as long as anyone else. I play league. And I entered six squads into league. Morally, Obsidian, Myrmidones and Novafire in 4vs4 league. And Tyranize, and 181st Tie in 12vs12 league. I am also one of the very very very select few players who play pub and actually reach 500 kills before the scores reset. Which I something you can't even say for yourself. Most league players don't play pub. So where do you get this idea that I don't bring a good perspective to any discussion? I know things about DSB you probably never even heard of. For example in ?go #wiz the people from Starmen.net used to play there every weekend and hold events and tournaments. Very few people in DSB even knew a whole group of 20 players was entering a private arena to play on weekends.

 

I think everyone contributes to the the community in a positive way even the oddballs who say ez every time they kill you. Anyway I want whats best for the zone, so if some people feel that me gone is better, then I'll just accept that and move on. After all I don't have to wrestle with my conscience, in other words I am feeling fine, I did nothing wrong. if you feel a 13 year ban was the right thing to do to someone for expressing their opinions then your free to think that.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Avast

[Tembest]

Why exactly would I have no experience on a subject? I played just as long as anyone else. I play league. And I entered six squads into league. Morally, Obsidian, Myrmidones and Novafire in 4vs4 league. And Tyranize, and 181st Tie in 12vs12 league. I am also one of the very very very select few players who play pub and actually reach 500 kills before the scores reset. Which I something you can't even say for yourself. Most league players don't play pub. So where do you get this idea that I don't bring a good perspective to any discussion? I know things about DSB you probably never even heard of. For example in ?go #wiz the people from Starmen.net used to play there every weekend and hold events and tournaments. Very few people in DSB even knew a whole group of 20 players was entering a private arena to play on weekends.

 

I think everyone contributes to the the community in a positive way even the oddballs who say ez every time they kill you. Anyway I want whats best for the zone, so if some people feel that me gone is better, then I'll just accept that and move on. After all I don't have to wrestle with my conscience, in other words I am feeling fine, I did nothing wrong. if you feel a 13 year ban was the right thing to do to someone for expressing their opinions then your free to think that.

 

I wasn't even only referring to SS. You just seem to have an opinion on everything,

even if you knew nothing about it. I've understood it's part of this so called "trolling".

Of course you know many things I don't. The point wasn't to go through your knowledge level

here. The point was that you think you know everything discussed on planet. The point that

you think your point of view is the correct one and the only option.

 

I disagree. Some people definitely do more harm than contribute. Take most of the constant rule breakers for example.

 

I never said anything about your ban either.

I don't think a 5000 day ban was justified.

 

Edit:

One question though. How do you explain the unnecessary trolling that has been going for

years, if your intentions were only to help the zone? That's where everyone knows you from

"Oh it's that troll dude". Please explain. This is only out of curiosity.

I don't question your intentions or need you to prove them to me. However, in my logic you've

taken many actions that contradict a lot with "doing what's best for the zone".

Edited February 11, 2011 by Tembest

[Avast]

Why exactly would I have no experience on a subject? I played just as long as anyone else. I play league. And I entered six squads into league. Morally, Obsidian, Myrmidones and Novafire in 4vs4 league. And Tyranize, and 181st Tie in 12vs12 league. I am also one of the very very very select few players who play pub and actually reach 500 kills before the scores reset. Which I something you can't even say for yourself. Most league players don't play pub. So where do you get this idea that I don't bring a good perspective to any discussion? I know things about DSB you probably never even heard of. For example in ?go #wiz the people from Starmen.net used to play there every weekend and hold events and tournaments. Very few people in DSB even knew a whole group of 20 players was entering a private arena to play on weekends.

 

I think everyone contributes to the the community in a positive way even the oddballs who say ez every time they kill you. Anyway I want whats best for the zone, so if some people feel that me gone is better, then I'll just accept that and move on. After all I don't have to wrestle with my conscience, in other words I am feeling fine, I did nothing wrong. if you feel a 13 year ban was the right thing to do to someone for expressing their opinions then your free to think that.

 

I wasn't even only referring to SS. You just seem to have an opinion on everything,

even if you knew nothing about it. I've understood it's part of this so called "trolling".

Of course you know many things I don't. The point wasn't to go through your knowledge level

here. The point was that you think you know everything discussed on planet. The point that

you think your point of view is the correct one and the only option.

 

I disagree, some people definitely do more harm than contribute. Take most of the constant rule breakers for example.

 

I never said anything about your ban either.

I don't think a 5000 day ban was justified.

 

I never really trolled on forums, unless people baited me. And to that i say don't cry when you asked for it. And ban the person who takes things off topic and tries to start a fight with me, not me for responding. Truly don't ban anyone, but still people call me the troll when I mostly just respond. I barely ever initiate things at least on forums. But this is all another issue. No I don't think I know everything, this is something I am happy about, how can anyone learn if they think they know everything. You are mistaking me for Hoch. I just know myself. That's all there really is too it. There is always more than one option.

 

Also I don't remember breaking DSB rules ever. Maybe once in 2006 I went on a team killing spree. But I've known plenty of people to team kill late a night when they are bored. Staff never caught me for that. And that was a long time ago when I did that. Otherwise everything staff ever banned me for, I never broke a rule, not once. And of course the fact that they only banned me one day, maximum one week in game, is proof of that. Hoch even banned me and cyanide for calling him ass once. I mean come on..

 

I think, Cyanide is still banned too, and basically for no good reason also.

 

Well to answer your question - I never ever, not ever trolled new players, or people like Freespirit or Evada etc I pissed off people like Manwhore, Rea and Vanish occasionally, not even very often and being the type of people who like to brag and even call other people Noobs. I really think they survived my trolling. Generally whoever I picked on did some picking on of their own. Was it for revenge no. I don't care about how people act. It was because they were apart of that atmosphere, so they were just people I could troll, being trollers themselves. Oh and I went after smurfs, because thats my pet peve.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Avast

[XO-MANOWAR]

So after all that...what now?

[Cheese]

as i said, sometimes when fighting a chronic rapist you have to catch aids and let it happen

 

 

http://forums.trenchwars.org/images/newsmilies/sorcerer.gif

 

restating in case noone comes up with any ideas

 

ps it means this if you missed it

 

right now, sounds to me like the best solution is to let dsb die quickly, then wait long enough for hoch to quit the game forever, then restart dsb

[SeVeR]

tl;dr

[Manwh0re]

I never really trolled on forums, unless people baited me. And to that i say don't cry when you asked for it. And ban the person who takes things off topic and tries to start a fight with me, not me for responding. Truly don't ban anyone, but still people call me the troll when I mostly just respond. I barely ever initiate things at least on forums. But this is all another issue. No I don't think I know everything, this is something I am happy about, how can anyone learn if they think they know everything. You are mistaking me for Hoch. I just know myself. That's all there really is too it. There is always more than one option.

 

Then what's your excuse for this post below? Also, the second piece in bold is utter bullshit; a good 25% of your posts are just that.

 

Lol no when im insulting people I am actually in a good mood.

It's when I compliment people that im in a bad mood and possibly depressed and contemplating suicide.

The troll god works in mysterious ways.

 

http://forums.deathstarbattle.com/showthread.php?p=46684#post46684

 

 

Well to answer your question - I never ever, not ever trolled new players, or people like Freespirit or Evada etc I pissed off people like Manwhore, Rea and Vanish occasionally, not even very often and being the type of people who like to brag and even call other people Noobs. I really think they survived my trolling. Generally whoever I picked on did some picking on of their own. Was it for revenge no. I don't care about how people act. It was because they were apart of that atmosphere, so they were just people I could troll, being trollers themselves. Oh and I went after smurfs, because thats my pet peve.

 

I have a few questions for you. Why are you trolling to begin with? Allow me to quote the Wikipedia definition of trolling:

 

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

 

From my 7+ years of being forced to coexist with you in DSB, this hits the nail on the head. I cannot see any other motive than you getting off to the attention and the responses of your peers. So let me ask you: is there something else you are getting out of it? Do you have some sort of ulterior motive for the good of the community? Let's start here--what was the purpose of this thread? Attention? Trolling? Do you want to be un-banned? Or is it purely to discuss the issues at hand in DSB? The latter is the only explanation that would warrant this thread to begin with, however I do not think that is the case. You are feigning an attempt at it in order to disguise the first three, which would seem to be your real intentions, especially considering your track history. This is what I would like to see in your reply: a CONCISE itemized list of what needs to be done in DSB right now. If you are so smart and full of so many wonderful ideas, people will agree, no?

[Cheese]

how about you stfu and get off his balls

 

this is about dsb, not about your obsession with him

[Manwh0re]

Read the last 2 lines, please. People need to be held accountable for their actions, as well, and if someone makes a false claim as to their own credentials, I see no reason why that should not be addressed, especially in light of the circumstances. Edited February 12, 2011 by Manwh0re

[Avast]

Infinite Regress

 

An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P1 requires the support of proposition P2, the truth of proposition P2 requires the support of proposition P3, ... , and the truth of proposition Pn-1 requires the support of proposition Pn and n approaches infinity.

 

For example if you kill me in pub. You would say 5-0gg. And talk about how you are better than me. But then I would kill you. And I would say 5-0gg and talk about how much better I am than you. You having only 800 energy are not immortal. So the possibility you will die by me is just as likely as the possibility I will die from you. So who is truly better when we can kill each other back and forth?

 

It is the same with trolling. I have seen you troll before. You have trolled me. Some people might claim you are trolling me right now. I have also trolled before. Either way we could go back and forth forever debating something that really means nothing. I could equally find examples of you trolling but I don't need to post your trolling to discredit you or to try and make myself look better. Everyone who has played subspace can accept the fact that they have fooled around, pissed someone off, said ez, or otherwise trolled at least once. So nobody will believe you if you say you are perfect. I have already admitted I troll occasionally. It's still no reason to deserve a 13 year ban.

 

Ulterior motives usually involve trying to pass yourself off as perfect, if I had Ulterior motives I would have spent my time in DSB kissing ass, like you do with DSB staff, while harboring secret resentment toward them. No instead I speak openly about any issues I have with staff, not only too them but to everyone else, and really thats what earned me my ban, being straight-forward.

 

My posts are on DSB forums under Valour ant. I have made this clear well before you did. Everyone knows I am Falconeer, and when I play under another name I tell everyone I am Falconeer. I have never smurfed or otherwise tried to hide anything. For this very reason I really don't need to defend my posts. They all speak for themselves and people can draw whatever conclusion they want if thats what they are here to do.

 

It's very clear why I posted this thread. I was threatened with a ban and if I ever talked about the threat with anyone I would be banned. It was solely for the last part. I knew Hoch would follow through and ban me. But it is worth it because It's about time someone exposes what Hoch does rather than be forced into a position of fear. As for giving points on what needs to be done in DSB right now. It makes me think that DSB staff is waiting to read this list because they have no idea how to improve the zone, and the only person who knows is someone they banned. Regardless I have listed tons of things DSB should be doing in this very thread.

 

As for your definition of trolling. I never require any response from people let alone an emotional response. Though sometimes a two way conversation makes things more interesting, mainly I like to see how people react to certain things, if anything when I troll I much prefer someone who responds with a happy response, because it shows how cool people can be sometimes. I mostly 'troll' just to pass the time and entertain myself. People have ignored me and I have been unphased from trolling or otherwise talking to them or about them. So attention is not required. And as for being unbanned. It would be nice. But I am happy either way. Why am i happy, well for

 

One, I did nothing wrong, so I can stand by my actions and words without regrets.

Two, I don't feel harmed in anyway, let me check, yep my arms are still here, my legs, and so on.

Three, harming me really harms the zone, because DSB is one less squad, one less person who provides meaning and life to the zone, yes even people you dislike can give you a reason to play, even if it that reason is there is falc now I can insult him and kill him a bunch of times! After all it has given you a reason to post here. Not to mention dsb is one less developer.

Four, hoch always wanted DSB to go out in a blaze of glory, so in reality he put me out in a blaze of glory before the zone dies, this is really a privileged that I can die before the zone crumbles to dust. At least according to Hoch's Logic. But to be serious, I can focus on other things in life, and play in better zones with a more stable, respectful and sincere staff.

Five, to really miss DSB Hoch will have to bring it back to 100 players. It can definitely be done. Just he can't do it. And he definitely can't do it alone, and with the current way he is running staff and the zone.

Six, If you ban me I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine! - Obiwan Kenobi Basically if this serves to improve dsb, because Hoch is forced to actually login and fix the zone, then I am happy to be banned. Been there too long anyway, so no I don't need to be unbanned. Of course the right thing to do, would be to unban me. But that's another story.

Seven, hell yes I can count all the way to seven!!!

Edited February 13, 2011 by Avast

[Manwh0re]

I'm going to hold back on responding to most of that because it just wouldn't be productive; you could PM me if you want some more info on that.

 

That was not the list I was looking for... allow me to repeat: what do you think needs to be done in DSB right now? Not just in regards to your ban(s), but for league, pub, staff, etc. I am honestly curious to hear your take on the matter, as you seem to be very opinionated about it.

[yodasexy]

Six, If you ban me I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine ...

Does this mean hooch is Darth Vader?

[XO-MANOWAR]

Well Falc im not sure what you want at this point except for Hoch to give up DSB.However I see no need to drag around the rest of the staff in the undertow.Although I havent played DSB all these years like you guys have,and i'm not sure WHAT the exact contempt for Hoch is,other than you dont agree with his methods.Well enough.However in my short time as DSB staff i can tell you that BeerHunter has done nothing but try to help or encourage me.And what he's saying is kinda obvious guys,at this moment DSB belongs to Hoch..so if he says do this or that..then thats what we have to do.I dont know the whole history,but im pretty sure there's no voting or council set up to make choices or plans.Is that the problem?Again..the point is moot for now...

 

 

 

 

 

For the old timers..

 

Former Owner/Sysop WLI/USD Annihilation

Staff SMOD T3 The Gauntlet

Favorite Flood victim of Gemini Dream

[PoLiX]

Until I have time to talk to the other person involved, I have hidden those posts. This thread isn't here to get people banned, or to fight and harass each other. If you guys want to do that, then GTFO these forums. If they are worried something you posted could cause that, and want it removed, it is to be removed.

 

By doing what you are doing it is causing me and probably most other people to lose interest in this thread.

 

On a side note: Avast, you may want to lay off posting. Because this is now sounding like a "I got banned, fired, and Hoch is an asshole" whiny thread than an actual "DSB SysOp is killing the zone" thread. Unless that is what you are going for, and we just misunderstood the beginning of the thread where it sounded like the later.

[Wormhole Surfer]

Yes, Hoch is a useless failure and the current state of DSB is evidence of that. But it's hardly worth fussing this much over a zone that gets about 8-10 people playing (not including the afk speccers) during what should be prime-time subspace hours. Even Hyperspace has more active players than DSB these days.

[Tembest]

We are worried is because DSB had such great potential.

Back in the days we had a population as big as TW's.

 

We were the biggest zone together with TW.

Basically everyone who thought TW was too easy started playing DSB.

 

From the most competitive league and possibly the biggest population

we've gone into the current situation.

I think it is obvious something has been done wrong, and this would

be the last chance to fix it.

 

I hope the above explaines why the matter is close to our heart,

should be looked into and fixed as soon as possible Wormhole Surfer.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Tembest

[Cheese]

We were the biggest zone together with TW.

Basically everyone who thought TW was too easy started playing DSB.

 

lol'd @ this

[Tembest]

Well it is true.

I should've added that people who hate random elements also

moved from TW to DSB. It's ridiculous you can kill people with

one shot. That's why I quit playing TW 10 years ago.

 

Many DSB'ers have started their own squad in TW with only

DSB'ers in it. Even just a year ago we did. Not one of us had

played TW in at least 5 years, yet we managed to beat

some squads in team jav and wb duels. I can't remember if we

played something else as well.

 

Bring a team to DSB from another zone and I guarantee your

team would not stand the slightest chance versus any squad

there is, or has been in DSB history.

 

So, laugh all you want. I suggest you play a prac match in DSB first though.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Tembest

[Wormhole Surfer]

We were the biggest zone together with TW.

 

lol'd @ this

 

He must be talking about its population over 10 years ago.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Wormhole Surfer

[PoLiX]

Yeah. DSB and TW use to be the 2 biggest. Then EG caught up and made it a 3-way before TW ran off. Then it was just DSB and EG before EG pulled away too. Some reason the 2001 boom didn't help DSB. Though it always came close to TW during Euro times.

 

And unlike many zones, DSB actually has staff who have been staff for more than 10yrs.

[Tembest]

Indeed. There have been many people who joined and got kicked one week later.

Also Staffers who joined and left a month later.

But hell, even I was Staff 2003-2010. Now I don't play the game anymore.

 

Out of the active ones I think Beer Hunter has been in Staff for the longest.

I can't remember who all still have powers. There are a few who haven't been online

in years. pravo? joee? zvuv? magic missile? chalk? etc.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Tembest

[»Lynx]

And unlike many zones, DSB actually has staff who have been staff for more than 10yrs.

 

Which is likely why they're in the mess that they're in now.

[XO-MANOWAR]

Ya know amidst all this,there is one thing I guess I just don't get.How do you ban someone for 12 years from Subspace?I,m sorry but I fail to see the justification.

 

Does Falc like to troll? YES

 

Does it get on people's nerves? YES

 

Has he pissed people off over the years? YES

 

I don't know about the rest of Subspace,but this happens EVERYDAY IN ANY ZONE imo.

 

If a person you just don't like or what he has to say annoys you..you use the ?ignore feature.

 

If a person e-mails you with crap you don't want to read....you delete it.

 

If every person in Subspace had the power to ban..there would be no one left.

 

This has really gotten out of hand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Former Owner/Sysop WLI/USD Annihilation

Staff SMOD T3 The Gauntlet

Favorite Flood victim of Gemini Dream

Edited February 20, 2011 by XO-MANOWAR

[PoLiX]

He is just banned from the zone, not the game.

[TLordTango]

oh hell, lets add my list of grievances against hoch to the list.

 

-He is adverse to any technological advancement. For years we weren't allowed to use MERV bots cause hoch said they were unstable. Probably the only reason we do have MERV bots now is cause no one told hoch it's a MERV bot, and he's not technical enough to figure out it's a MERV bot. Same for ASSS, DSB is probably the only sizeable zone still hosted on subgame rather than ASSS.

 

-He is equally adverse to updating the gameplay of DSB to more modern standards. DSB has been the same old game for over 10 years now, with nothing done to improve the pub or league with novel ideas. Though truth be told, he seems to finally begin to buckle a little in this respect.

 

-He makes any proactive staff member leave. Really there is a long long list of ex-staffers who simply quit cause they couldn't get anywhere with DSB, myself included. I left cause of the above, no asss, no merv, what can you do?

But the list goes on and on, starting with ministry22, preacher22, chalk eagle many years ago, and still proceeding with the more recent additions of the_snake, abruzzi, and as icing on the cake he sacked beer hunter, his only loyal supporter. Is it any wonder then that DSB is stagnant and slowly dying cause of that?

 

-He is simply never around. He tries to run the zone on second hand information and emails, which I highly doubt can be done, rather than just passing it on to the next person. Not that there is a next person left who would be an improvement, given that he chased all those away. He might see DSB as an responsibility, but it isn't one he appears to enjoy to the level he will do it to the best of his abilities, or even a fraction thereof.

 

-He doesn't give a fuck about the community. According to him, if you want to do something for the zone you can join his staff. And then you still cant do anything cause he wont allow it. The community isn't used for even the basest of crowd sourcing like making maps or coming up with new gameplay formats. He's not guiding DSB anywhere, he's not letting others do that either.

 

-He uses dirty politics against everyone who ever opposes him. Should you ever have the balls to disagree with him he'll use his influence to destroy your reputation. He consistantly uses intimidation, appeals to authority and when that wont do, ass kissing, to maintain his position as head sysop and destroy any opposition.

 

To summarize: PLEASE HELP US GET RID OF THIS FUCKER, DSB is almost dead and if we're going to make a last ditch effort for it, we only have a chance of success if hoch is out of the way.