A few things to say about TRENCH WARS

[0a0x0e0]

First off, I have been playing Trench Wars for a long time. I have seen all the changes, some forgotten some not. Trench Wars has been a part of my life since I was 12 years old. Started playing around 98 99ish and have had the AXE.0000 nickname since 2000. I never spec, so my play time reflects actual in game playtime and less than 1% of it is specced (I believe its sitting around 1.4k hours right now). I have a few other nicks, and everything added up it adds to about 2.5k hours of playtime (remember no speccing at all). That said, I think I have a little seniority on 'ol Trench and I have a few things to say about the changes.

 

First off, change is hard. One of the reasons why most of us come back to Trench Wars is because of the stability. It's been virtually unchanged in the last 10 years. We have seen minor changes to base on account of LTs, we have seen the weasel try to find its identity through several changes. I personally liked the last time the weasel was small and had stealth/cloak and could barely shoot, but that's me.

 

I really hated this new base. I did. I voiced my opinion to a few people and some staff and they were really nice about it and said they would pass on my sentiments to the dev team. Not sure if it happened. I will say that I have warmed up a bit to the base, and only because they actually kept my favorite shots in fr untouched (thank god), and actually added some interesting new holes that are kind of fun to learn how to shoot. All in all, I can honestly say I have warmed up to the new base. I will offer some criticism though, why not have two pubs? One with the new base and one with the old? You know some of us have played in that virtually unchanged base for the last 12 years? Throwing it away is like a big "F YOU" to all the old player base that loved it. Not everyone is interested in playing in league anymore, I am getting too old to care for it, so leaving one of the pubs the old base and one the new base would be a little more thoughtful to all of us that make Trench Wars what it is.

 

Also, why do away with pure pubs? I was part of a group that made pure pubs what is was. We were trying to do some serious basing in pub on private freqs and the LTs were just a skill-less I-win machine from outside FR. We voiced our opinion about it and they put in "pure" pubs that barred the levi from being an optional ship. This greatly contributed to the skill based game play when it was possible.

 

This also brings me to my probably most loathed change that I will never warm up to ever at all. I will try to put this as tactful as possible, but please hear me out. The new levi changes are bad. They are. And here is why. Levis have never been a ship that catered to skill. But they were almost impossible to use solo. Their bomb splash damage was enough to take you by surprise and just completely wipe out an entire fr despite your best intention of 'keeping blue bomb watch' when playing. Here was the upside to the old levis though, they couldn't be used solo. They were an easy target. So much so that some people considered it undignified to kill a levi in spawn. I was one of those people most of the time. Now? Now they have souped up the already skill-less splash damage ship by increasing its thrusters, turn radius and (drumroll please) HEALTH. Seriously? A Levi now can survive SOLO on its own easier AND can survive a level 3 (white/blue) bullet. So for those of us who slave for thousands of hours to learn how to shoot well and proper with a ship like WB that prides itself on needing accuracy to kill (and not any splash damage, just "get it near" the enemy. You NEED a direct hit) a WB can now shoot a perfect shot through a small hole at an LT or a levi outside FR and the levi will not die. This is totally shortsighted. It is killing any kind of skill based game play in Trench Wars.

 

I also play a lot in DSB, and I can say without a doubt that DSB has far less tolerance of newb players. If you are a bad shot, or don't know how to fly your ship than you just won't kill hardly anyone and you will die a lot in DSB. You need some skill. Even before the changes to Trench Wars it was a zone that catered to newbs. People with no skill could hang out in spawn and actually SPAWN KILL PLAYERS THAT JUST DIED because you don't spawn in a safe. I know for years people who would do this and it gave some of those players a reason to play the game. It was lame, but it hasn't left (I still hate it and think you should spawn in safe like DSB, but w/e). Javs, don't get me started. Getting constantly tked by newb javs is ENOUGH. Please don't put me in a fr with a newb jav and expect me to be A-OK with all the newb levis that are showing up in FR now. I have literally been in FR with 5, yes FIVE newb levis tking me over and over, and the rest of the team. Getting tked by bad sharks and bad javs is enough, please don't make the levi this over powered ship that can eat level 3 bullets and survive solo and live in fr leeching splash damage kills off of people that are actually skillfully using their ship (like the terr, arguably the most valuable team member. Nothing like having a good terr finally and him getting tked by a levi).

 

 

I really wish that the devs of this game would consult some of the old player base when making changes. Even making changes to the base, I know that I could have a lot of good input on how base could be setup. In the old base there were some really neat and hard shots that could be accomplished and I wonder if the new devs have even considered these things when putting together a new FR or new base concept. Part of the reason why SS has such great replay ability is because of the possibilities. There were shots that I was still learning how to do well even after 10 years. Not to mention all of the memories and people that used to play the game. I could pick up the game after a year long break and it would still be the same, I could still go "oh yea I remember that shot" from bottom safe or roof or inside mid. There are a couple shots that I actually invented and have never seen anyone else do, and a few that I have been the only one to my knowledge who can do them in WB. Please consider these things when you are making changes, the old player base isn't going to embrace all of your changes but some of them like these over powered levi changes are just too much honestly. This levi is killing skill based game play. If you are bent on keeping them over powered, at least give us back pure pubs.

 

I hope to see a lot of the player base return soon, a lot of my old friends who used to play a lot. This is for you guys:

 

Will

Master of Dragons

MethaX

Meddi

r4mb

Avitronix

Newbcaek

Powerded Toast Man

Teancum

Morte Wulfe

Dack Falu

Talon

Ice_Cap

Maleficarum

Seal666

Random07

 

and others I can't even think of right now.

 

-AXE.0000

 

*EDIT

 

I forgot to mentioned a few other things that over power the levi now. They can upgrade to level 4 shots which makes them more powerful than old levi, and they EMP now. Way too much. Think about this ship compared to other ships and what Trench is about, and you should conclude how over powered they are. They need a major rework back into their old style or changed altogether to do something else.

Edited January 4, 2011 by 0a0x0e0

[CRe]

http://forums.trenchwars.org/

[Resol]

Yeah, I don't know how much luck you will have posting that here.

 

I'm sure you get a lot of feedback by posting this on TW's forums.

[0a0x0e0]

Thanks for the advice, but isn't this the new central Subspace forums? I would think that it would have it's own Trench sub forums. I suppose I will just link this post from the Trench forums. -_-

[No_Remorse]

I really wish that the devs of this game would consult some of the old player base when making changes. Even making changes to the base, I know that I could have a lot of good input on how base could be setup.

 

These guys don't consult anyone and make constant changes to gameplay.

[PoLiX]

Thanks for the advice, but isn't this the new central Subspace forums? I would think that it would have it's own Trench sub forums. I suppose I will just link this post from the Trench forums. -_-

 

If you consider almost 8.5yrs old "new"

 

Why should it have a trench sub forum? They have their own. They were subforums of these forums when it was on Gamespec ions ago.

[0a0x0e0]

Thanks for the advice, but isn't this the new central Subspace forums? I would think that it would have it's own Trench sub forums. I suppose I will just link this post from the Trench forums. -_-

 

If you consider almost 8.5yrs old "new"

 

Why should it have a trench sub forum? They have their own. They were subforums of these forums when it was on Gamespec ions ago.

I didn't realize these were that old, I probably have an old forum name. Must just be perhaps a new skin? It's not like this is the first time I have forgotten a place, sorry

[Dr Brain]

Old players are the worst people to consult about changes, if your goal is to have a popular zone (this is not Hyperspace's goal, but I don't consult with vets for entirely different reasons).

 

* They've usually lost all touch with newbies, so have no idea what will attract new players.

* They don't play as much as they used to, because they're older and more responsible IRL.

* They tend to be very set in their ways.

 

So I applaud trench for changing things despite its crotchety vets.

[0a0x0e0]

Old players are the worst people to consult about changes, if your goal is to have a popular zone (this is not Hyperspace's goal, but I don't consult with vets for entirely different reasons).

 

* They've usually lost all touch with newbies, so have no idea what will attract new players.

* They don't play as much as they used to, because they're older and more responsible IRL.

* They tend to be very set in their ways.

 

So I applaud trench for changing things despite its crotchety vets.

Thanks for the insults, very mature.

 

By this logic you are saying that the newest players with the least experience have the best input, sounds logical. What could somebody like me bring to the table?

 

Oh also, I probably haven't introduced this game to many new players and still talk to them (one last week actually), so I have no clue what they are like or their opinion.

 

And I am so set in my ways that I'm not open to any change? That's what I said right? Or maybe I had some criticism about a levi... hmmmmm

[flared]

i'll try to address most of your points here...

 

the main reason we decided to condense in to one pub is because the pub population would fluctuate right around 45-50 players leaving one pub full and the second with two few players to have anything fun going on. so with having more players in pub comes a larger base. one of the reasons the base has multiple entrances is create longer flag room battles or "real" basing matches in pub.

 

now without a pure pub, we wanted to weaken the levi but not completely change its style as its always been a major aspect of tw pub. we tried to create sort of a barrier around the flag room and removed several of the LT shots in order to prevent LTs from destroying the whole FR. also, although the new lev has increased maneuverability, actually has a lower level bomb (just lvz edit to make it look the same as before). although it does have emp, it was intended to be a weaker tank-like ship, to stun the enemies rather than just kill them all at once. and when you buy the superlev, it is not actually L4 bombs, but L3 (same as the L2 bombs appear to be L3).

 

as for not consulting any of the older players, this can be somewhat a troubling thing. i think everyone can see that subspace's population is slowly dimishing and we wanted to try to do something new to the zone to try and spark some interest. older players are typically the ones who are against any change, but do not think that we didn't ask around. the base itself had been worked on and tested for months before being put in to tw. then when it was put in tw in ?go pubtest, we held several hosted games to receive feedback from the players before uploading any of the changes to the pub. the whole process (map, bot, testing) took quite a while... i would guess probably 8-10 months before it was actually uploaded. we consulted quite a few of the pub players, hosted the new map, and made tons and tons of edits until we believed it was ready. not to mention, there were several forum threads which updated the players with the changes and offered a spot for feedback.

 

on a side note... we also added some cool new stuff like a !tutorial for new players and the option to choose your own tileset (!settile boki/monolith) so check those out if you haven't yet

Edited January 5, 2011 by flared

[flared]

edit: levi updated enjoy!

[Static Burn]

Thanks for the advice, but isn't this the new central Subspace forums? I would think that it would have it's own Trench sub forums. I suppose I will just link this post from the Trench forums. -_-

 

I wouldn't link it, just repost the text in this forum: http://forums.trenchwars.org/forumdisplay.php?3-SSCU-Trench-Wars

[Yupa]

"Hey let's change the game from the way it's been for AGES to this nonsense here!"

 

 

"Oh no actually let's change it again — not back to the way it was nevermind the disappearing population — but to an entirely new nonsense!"

 

[Dr Brain]

"Hey let's change the game from the way it's been for AGES to this nonsense here!"

 

 

"Oh no actually let's change it again — not back to the way it was nevermind the disappearing population — but to an entirely new nonsense!"

 

 

By that logic, alpha and warzone should be thriving independent zones, instead of Chaos subarenas.

[Yupa]

Perhaps if you hadn't been in warzone in the past million years. They changed everything in that zone, it was awful, and no surprise everyone left.

 

Alpha is an exception because of its long run as 'Chaos for newbs', or having two redundant SVS zones with the same purpose.

[L.C.]

True SVS requires time, patience, and intelligence.

 

Today's player base doesn't have much of any of those.

[Yupa]

True SVS requires time, patience, and intelligence.

 

Today's player base doesn't have much of any of those.

 

...or true SVS (in a pub arena). Have you been in Chaos lately? /me cries

[Warrior Mika]

Talon And Daze were probably the only 2 I still remember to this very day since 7+ years ago. Beast players.

 

<3 Warrior Mika

[»Lynx]

I prefer the old TW map, but the new one isn't too bad. It makes for more balanced game play. The new Lev is really sucky, though.