Unauthorized Degranting

[Unix]

BECAUSE, people choose to use the bots that scam them, that is a total different story then using a mod to exploit a bot for people to use. The thing is, player uses bot player is scammed, player does it again it's player's fault. Now the thing on to use a mod to exploit a bot is a different story because it took 2 forces to take from the bot. unix REGS to the bot making an account, unix plans :unix to mod: do arena "player unix gave bot xyz": :mod not knowing what unix is trying to pull, does the message and then withdraws the money. you basically scammed everyon and the bot itself with the use of a mod. Argument or not, you did.

It's not about whether or not I scammed the bot, the question is what I did illegal and if it was or wasnt. What I did was perfectly legal. I did not force Masaru or any other staffer to do the ?aa message, they did it on their own accord.

 

I would also like to add that you do not have to register with spider's bot to get money from the bot. That is another exploit which no one is seeing, at least not right now. Any staffer who isnt registered with the bot could still easily get money from spider's bot the way it was, for all we know Namp who does do the ?aa message and knowingly gets money from ub-a_bot could had gotten money from the bank bot, but because it wasnt as large of an amount as 1m, it didnt go noticed.

 

yes of course the mod should have known to acknowledged this. But still you planned it, the blame is on you, you took the money, you argue that no mod can touch you, yet you gave it all away to avoid punishment, if dr brain agrees to this, then basically you are screwed and going to have to deal with punishment. Not saying he does.. or disagrees. but his quote on banning you says it all that he would too take it up in his hands for use of mod to exploit a bot.

We've been through this over and over again though, what I did was perfectly legal. Name something I did that goes against the rules of Hyperspace. Asking a staffer to do a command, since when is that ever illegal? Getting money from a bot that took something the wrong way because the owner of the bot didnt code the bot to be foolproof, how is that my mistake and how is it illegal to take money from a bot or player when that happens? Nothing I did was illegal or warrants any form of action by staff.

 

According to your logic, then Namp should also be punished, and more heavily than myself for his actions, seeing as how he did it more than once, and also was fully aware of the benefits of the actions that were directly given to him and him alone.

[PlayWolf]

---namp with that UB-A_bot---

smods don't really listen about him. He is power triggered, annoying to work with, everyone fights with him, he exploits and beats around the bush to much. Was OK with me and spider, spider is actually good to work with, Namp on the other hand just blazes out retardation everywhere.

 

He has been causing trouble since day one and smods like "OK will talk to him will talk to him". and nothing really happens. He did it plenty everyone saw the messages, we saw him say $$ and how much the bot lost from his arena message. He can say he can do it because the bot owner is his friend? JUST TO EXPLOIT A BOT? He should infact know better not to do it at all in the first place. But since day he has totally cause so much trouble when he was hired. So before time he is just too much to be with and has caused trouble since day one, I mean really.

 

lo; Not to mention he got axed from DS for abuse, HE HAS A HISTORY OF IT.

 

I can't talk much because, Me new mod.

 

 

 

 

(sucks at this forum shenanigans)

 

Unix and bankbot

 

Whether or not he did it on his own accords he had no clue on how that the bot would act like that in the first place. Unix you stole 1m from everyone who used that bot.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Wolfie

[»D1st0rt]

A+++ thread would read again

 

lol @ unix

[ArcticxWolf]

We've been through this over and over again though, what I did was perfectly legal. Name something I did that goes against the rules of Hyperspace. Asking a staffer to do a command, since when is that ever illegal? Getting money from a bot that took something the wrong way because the owner of the bot didnt code the bot to be foolproof, how is that my mistake and how is it illegal to take money from a bot or player when that happens? Nothing I did was illegal or warrants any form of action by staff.

 

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

There you go.

 

Also, I have yet to see Spidernl do any of the things which you guys are claiming. I'm pretty sure the above rule covers all of the possible "abuse of power" situations mentioned by previous posters. Or maybe I just always happen to be offline while these things happen, and it suddenly stops when I log on, then when I log off again, it suddenly starts again. Who even knows.

 

On the other hand, claiming players are using foul language when they say words such as dick while people can freely say vagina is dumb. What kind of a zone is this? Obvious sexism.

Edited December 2, 2010 by ArcticxWolf

[Unix]

Whether or not he did it on his own accords he had no clue on how that the bot would act like that in the first place. Unix you stole 1m from everyone who used that bot.

Whether he was aware or not, which he could had been fully aware of seeing as how this has been a known exploit for a very long time the exploit goes back since the introduction of bots and staffers having done this before. Whether or not I did take money from the bot isnt being questioned, it's whether if how I went about it is legal or not, and everything I did was 100% legal.

 

As of right now, spidernl has all your money, not me. He already has the 1m that was lost from other sources and still has not put the bot back online. It's been well over a week since he's received the additional capital, but still no bot in sight. I dont have your money, spidernl has your money. He chooses not to bring the bot back online until he is able to fix the, according to him, unfixable exploit.

[Unix]

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

There you go.

Being lame and doing something immoral are two different things. I admit what I did wasnt the most moral thing to do, far from it actually, but at the same time it wasnt being lame.

 

According to your logic, anyone scamming is being lame and thus should have some form of staff interference with their transactions. This also is true for people who do not pay up in cash duels, etc.

[PlayWolf]

 

As of right now, spidernl has all your money, not me. He already has the 1m that was lost from other sources and still has not put the bot back online. It's been well over a week since he's received the additional capital, but still no bot in sight. I dont have your money, spidernl has your money. He chooses not to bring the bot back online until he is able to fix the, according to him, unfixable exploit.

 

You gave all that money away to random people and most of it to oid. Obviously you don't have the money. YOU GAVE IT ALL AWAY TO AVOID PUNISHMENT!

[PlayWolf]

 

Being lame and doing something immoral are two different things. I admit what I did wasnt the most moral thing to do, far from it actually, but at the same time it wasnt being lame.

 

According to your logic, anyone scamming is being lame and thus should have some form of staff interference with their transactions. This also is true for people who do not pay up in cash duels, etc.

 

You messed with a bot... ZB bot or not, was bad to do so. You still digging a hole with a stick with bad arguments.

[ArcticxWolf]

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

There you go.

Being lame and doing something immoral are two different things. I admit what I did wasnt the most moral thing to do, far from it actually, but at the same time it wasnt being lame.

 

According to your logic, anyone scamming is being lame and thus should have some form of staff interference with their transactions. This also is true for people who do not pay up in cash duels, etc.

 

No its not. Read it again.

 

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

They determine what is considered lame and what is considered immoral. Anyone scamming CAN be considered being lame, but if the mod decides to determine that it isn't lame, then it isn't. Just because they choose to say that some scams are lame and some aren't is immoral, but not necessarily an abuse of power. They are allowed to do that by this rule. That was your point, wasn't it? They technically aren't breaking any rules by saying some scams are lame and some aren't, they are only being immoral.

 

There is obviously a limit as to how far a mod can go with this rule, but that is determined by Brain or other higher ups. however, it is obvious that Brain supports spider's judgement on this, and even says that he himself would have been even more harsh.

Edited December 2, 2010 by ArcticxWolf

[Unix]

 

As of right now, spidernl has all your money, not me. He already has the 1m that was lost from other sources and still has not put the bot back online. It's been well over a week since he's received the additional capital, but still no bot in sight. I dont have your money, spidernl has your money. He chooses not to bring the bot back online until he is able to fix the, according to him, unfixable exploit.

 

You gave all that money away to random people and most of it to oid. Obviously you don't have the money. YOU GAVE IT ALL AWAY TO AVOID PUNISHMENT!

I gave away money because I could. I dont have to keep everything with me on hand. Obviously it's not to just avoid punishment, but to avoid spidernl from taking it through unauthorized force.

 

You're still being far too biased about this, and being blinded by your anger. Just because you put all your money in the bot and dont have access to it currently isnt my fault, it's partially your fault and mostly spider's fault, seeing as how you put it in a risky bot and spider chooses not to bring the bot back online.

[Unix]

Being lame and doing something immoral are two different things. I admit what I did wasnt the most moral thing to do, far from it actually, but at the same time it wasnt being lame.

 

According to your logic, anyone scamming is being lame and thus should have some form of staff interference with their transactions. This also is true for people who do not pay up in cash duels, etc.

 

You messed with a bot... ZB bot or not, was bad to do so. You still digging a hole with a stick with bad arguments.

My arguments are perfectly sound. Doing what I did has proven time and time again to not be illegal and have had zero staff interference in the past. What is the difference now? "Messing" with a bot is perfectly legal.

 

 

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

There you go.

Being lame and doing something immoral are two different things. I admit what I did wasnt the most moral thing to do, far from it actually, but at the same time it wasnt being lame.

 

According to your logic, anyone scamming is being lame and thus should have some form of staff interference with their transactions. This also is true for people who do not pay up in cash duels, etc.

 

No its not. Read it again.

 

Lameness (as determined by the mods) is also illegal. That should cover anything not explicitly on this list.

 

They determine what is considered lame and what is considered immoral. Anyone scamming CAN be considered being lame, but if the mod decides to determine that it isn't lame, then it isn't. Just because they choose to say that some scams are lame and some aren't is immoral, but not necessarily an abuse of power. They are allowed to do that by this rule. That was your point, wasn't it? They technically aren't breaking any rules by saying some scams are lame and some aren't, they are only being immoral.

 

There is obviously a limit as to how far a mod can go with this rule, but that is determined by Brain or other higher ups. however, it is obvious that Brain supports spider's judgement on this, and even says that he himself would have been even more harsh.

So if a staffer is in a duel and isnt paid up, they can themselves determine if its lame or not to not pay up? Scamming has never ever been enforced as being lame. And all I did was scam a bot. From this point on and any other previous scams, staff should intervene then? According to your logic, yes.

[ArcticxWolf]

So if a staffer is in a duel and isnt paid up, they can themselves determine if its lame or not to not pay up? Scamming has never ever been enforced as being lame. And all I did was scam a bot. From this point on and any other previous scams, staff should intervene then? According to your logic, yes.

 

They can choose to, yes. They can also choose not to, as lameness is only determined by the mods. It's not illegal for them to do this, but it definitely is immoral.

Edited December 2, 2010 by ArcticxWolf

[Emit]

;_; Edited December 2, 2010 by Emit

[PlayWolf]

 

As of right now, spidernl has all your money, not me. He already has the 1m that was lost from other sources and still has not put the bot back online. It's been well over a week since he's received the additional capital, but still no bot in sight. I dont have your money, spidernl has your money. He chooses not to bring the bot back online until he is able to fix the, according to him, unfixable exploit.

 

You gave all that money away to random people and most of it to oid. Obviously you don't have the money. YOU GAVE IT ALL AWAY TO AVOID PUNISHMENT!

I gave away money because I could. I dont have to keep everything with me on hand. Obviously it's not to just avoid punishment, but to avoid spidernl from taking it through unauthorized force.

 

You're still being far too biased about this, and being blinded by your anger. Just because you put all your money in the bot and dont have access to it currently isnt my fault, it's partially your fault and mostly spider's fault, seeing as how you put it in a risky bot and spider chooses not to bring the bot back online.

 

Could care less about that money, just getting to the point that what you did was wrong and should have never done it. Either way you have no choice on this argument.

 

And it is YOUR FAULT for taking that money.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Wolfie

[Unix]

Could care less about that money, just getting to the point that what you did was wrong and should have never done it. Either way you have no choice on this argument.

 

And it is YOUR FAULT for taking that money.

So scamming should never be done? Players and bots have always scammed throughout the history of hyperspace. What I did was no different than a player finding an exploit on a bot, which I did, then using that exploit on the bot to their advantage, which I did.

 

It was my fault for taking the money, but it was preventable if spidernl chose to make precautions.

[Samapico]

Could care less about that money, just getting to the point that what you did was wrong and should have never done it. Either way you have no choice on this argument.

 

And it is YOUR FAULT for taking that money.

So scamming should never be done? Players and bots have always scammed throughout the history of hyperspace. What I did was no different than a player finding an exploit on a bot, which I did, then using that exploit on the bot to their advantage, which I did.

 

It was my fault for taking the money, but it was preventable if spidernl chose to make precautions.

A staff member fell for your evil plan... I'm not blaming staff here, but technically the staff made a mistake, and they had the power to fix that mistake, which they did (kind of).

 

If a bank somehow made a mistake and added 6 zeroes in your bank account, they'll obviously attempt to fix it. If you already cashed it all, then you have 2 choices: give it back, or leave the country ASAP.

 

You should do the same... either stop whining, or get out

[Cheese]

ಠ_ಠ

[omnomnom]

Unfortunately, my love for this thread reaches no limits and boundaries. I must post here again.

 

Anyways, I see the situation like this: lots of stuff. But... according to the rules staff can do stuff for any reason they so desire. (Lameness? Hah! What CAN'T me called "lameness" some way or another is the real question!)

 

I guess with HS's policy your stay will be dependent on the mods, especially in the top. But of course, not entirely. And of course, other places are like this too...

 

Ah well. I must omnomnom some more. It is grand. Omnomnooom... yes. If only there was a omnomnom alien tech in HS... everyone in Hyperspace would surely, no undoubtably, be happier. Antideath would take a hike; only omnomnom would reign supreme. Yes... I can only imagine...

[spidernl]

I gave away money because I could. I dont have to keep everything with me on hand. Obviously it's not to just avoid punishment, but to avoid spidernl from taking it through unauthorized force.

 

Lol. How can you be so dumb in one sentence.

First of all, read the thread. The 'unauthorized force' is obviously authorized - I first asked Masaru, who gave me permission, and now Dr Brain said he also doesn't exactly oppose what I did.

 

And I find it quite amusing that you expect us to believe that it was purely incidental that you sold all your ships, gave all your money away and kept your balance at exactly $10,000 as soon as Masaru told you to pay me back.

 

Edit: Also, judging from the above, it would seem that you did expect some kind of staff involvement all the time, no?

Edited December 2, 2010 by spidernl

[JoWie]

I would not do such checks in a plain gamblebot, but it's pretty stupid to not do this for a bankbot like that. I even talked to / warned spider about this exploit a few times (It is the 3rd or 4th time a mod has been tricked into this exploit). A fix is not even hard to implement, this could be added within 60 minutes of coding.

User Bots are completely untrustable, this is the reason for the UB- prefix, the people using the bot should have known the risk.

Normally a bot with such staff backing does not carry the UB- prefix, the "staff abuse" outcry is understandable. I would have exploited it as well if I still played.

 

I find it amazing people take this game so serious. This zone needs more anarchy.

[PlayWolf]

o.e

[»D1st0rt]

Anyways, I see the situation like this: lots of stuff. But... according to the rules staff can do stuff for any reason they so desire. (Lameness? Hah! What CAN'T me called "lameness" some way or another is the real question!)

 

I guess with HS's policy your stay will be dependent on the mods, especially in the top. But of course, not entirely. And of course, other places are like this too...

The main point of the "lameness clause" is to illustrate the difference between legal/arbitration systems in meatspace and hyperspace. Doing something intentionally harmful and then saying "Well technically I didn't do anything wrong because the letter of the law doesn't specifically call out this behavior as forbidden" is not going to work. It's a warning that even if you think you find a loophole, don't be surprised if you end up dealing with the consequences. This is not a democracy, you can't "gotcha!" us.

 

Now this is not to say that we power trip around swinging the ban hammer just because we feel like it. We attempt to use our best judgment in all of the situations across the spectrum of complexity we encounter. Again, its mostly for the people who have watched a few too many episodes of Law and Order and try to get cute. Save your time and ours, we don't have the same set of restrictions largely because the consequences of an overreaction on our part are negligible compared to real life. Also we run this town.

 

I gave away money because I could. I dont have to keep everything with me on hand. Obviously it's not to just avoid punishment, but to avoid spidernl from taking it through unauthorized force.

That's cool, I might still go through and grab it through authorized force.

 

Seriously people, stop being dicks.

[Samapico]

^

I couldn't have said it better. And I wanted to, trust me.

[omnomnom]

Anyways, I see the situation like this: lots of stuff. But... according to the rules staff can do stuff for any reason they so desire. (Lameness? Hah! What CAN'T me called "lameness" some way or another is the real question!)

 

I guess with HS's policy your stay will be dependent on the mods, especially in the top. But of course, not entirely. And of course, other places are like this too...

The main point of the "lameness clause" is to illustrate the difference between legal/arbitration systems in meatspace and hyperspace. Doing something intentionally harmful and then saying "Well technically I didn't do anything wrong because the letter of the law doesn't specifically call out this behavior as forbidden" is not going to work. It's a warning that even if you think you find a loophole, don't be surprised if you end up dealing with the consequences. This is not a democracy, you can't "gotcha!" us.

 

Now this is not to say that we power trip around swinging the ban hammer just because we feel like it. We attempt to use our best judgment in all of the situations across the spectrum of complexity we encounter. Again, its mostly for the people who have watched a few too many episodes of Law and Order and try to get cute. Save your time and ours, we don't have the same set of restrictions largely because the consequences of an overreaction on our part are negligible compared to real life. Also we run this town.

 

So let me get this right, you think I think staff does not enforce things properly? Or do you just mean this as a general statement to all? I think most staff in HS is fine to at least an extent. I do not think you are all ban-hammer-crazy swingers.

[»D1st0rt]

I just wanted to make sure people didn't misinterpret my statement