Unauthorized Degranting

[Unix]

I was recently degranted a little over 10k by spidernl claiming that he was "fixing a staff mistake". The funds then being transferred to the bot owner of the bank bot, spidernl. This however is an abuse of staff powers. So right now we have a staffer abusing their powers trying to get money back that was taken from a "UB" and not a "ZB". Dr Brain has said over and over again, user bots are to be treated like normal players, should a player to player transaction occur, it is up to the players if they wish to or not, no one is twisting their arm to make the transaction. Should you get scammed for one reason or another and give to another player, that is your fault.

 

The Bank Bot was not forced to give the money, it did give me the money, but because of spidernl's incompetent coding, there were zero countermeasures against a staffer potentially doing an ?aa message to fake a ?give. Because of spidernl's unwillingness to even attempt to remedy the potential of a staffer doing a fake ?give, which he was fully aware of, he instead chose to ignore the problem and hope for the best. His laziness is what caused the problem to occur.

 

UB-A_Bot has had countless of thousands stolen by Namp because of his fake ?aa messages, however, no one has stepped to intervene in the ub-a_bot's interests. If anything this is an even more heinous act than what occurred with the bank bot due to Namp directly benefiting, knowingly doing so, and continuing the action. His actions were made aware to the upper staff, but still no action has been taken.

 

A staffer has zero authority when it comes to returning/refunding/etc money to and from bot/player transactions that occurred. This has been proven in the past when players finally realized they were being scammed by bots, staff never intervened except once in a very extreme circumstance. Even then, the owner of the bot chose to give back the money. This is the first known instance in which a bot owner is crying foul because of a glitch that he was well aware of and chose to ignore and is now attempting to abuse their power to gain back money they rightfully lost due to their own fault.

[Kilo]

look at this guy talkin about who has authority to do what

 

you are scum and whining about reciprocation for your scummy acts. i don't think anyone's going to take your side. as for mods you would know all about abusing as a mod...

 

p.s. if you need further clarification i could charge you $50k for consultation services...

Edited November 29, 2010 by Kilo

[Dr Brain]

money they rightfully lost

This was my favorite part.

[omnomnom]

Well, this is their zone, so then feeling more than compelled to "degrant because we said so" is expectable. And I guess a mod doesnt have that, but as you can see...

 

Honestly, the degrant was unnecessary. But this is not the only similar link in this chain concerning money where I could say something similar. In the end, I think people rate HS money too highly. As much as we love being rich in HS, surely, such virtual money is to not consider too strongly when you can be perfectly fine without it? Or maybe I'm wrong, and we have deep connections to our HS money of joy...

 

... :/

[P Nut]

Staff has had a long-standing policy of noninterference in regards to monetary affairs between players. If this is the new direction then I request to be reimbursed for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that is owed to me from unpaid duels. I also have some hefty sums loaned out that I haven't gotten back yet. If staff could "fix those mistakes" for me that would be great. Thanks.

[spidernl]

If this post is full of terrible spelling and/or grammar, blame my phone.

 

Anyway, Unix, your post would make more people care if you told the entire story and didn't add some nonsense to spice it up.

 

First of all, the money wasn't transfered to my account after the degrant. I admit it would make the story that much more epic but oh well.

 

Second, this was first discussed with Masaru, and we concluded that it was mainly his mistake. Since the money was moved to your account the only way to revert the mistake's changes is by degranting you and later moving the money to the bot.

 

Keep up the cool story about me being lazy while the choice not to implement the kind of 'security' you mention is one I made to prevent players losing money to unforseen circumstances.

 

@P Nut: if you don't see the difference between this and a dueling bet I'm afraid I will never be able to explain it well enough to you. Then again you're bound to just be trolling.

 

Meh, I don't see why Unix is so worried about losing money that wasn't his in the first place. Still, this e-drama is a good way to get through my popcorn reserves.

 

Edit: since staffers apparently (of course Unix knows this better than actual staffers) have no authority to fix their own mistakes, who does?

Edited November 30, 2010 by spidernl

[espo]

I needed a good laugh this morning.

[Unix]

First of all, the money wasn't transfered to my account after the degrant. I admit it would make the story that much more epic but oh well.

 

Second, this was first discussed with Masaru, and we concluded that it was mainly his mistake. Since the money was moved to your account the only way to revert the mistake's changes is by degranting you and later moving the money to the bot.

If the money wasnt transferred to your account, or at least one of your accounts, all you're simply doing then is degranting me and not reverting this "mistake" that you are now labeling as what Masaru did. If you are simply degranting me, then it is a punishment. Seeing as how there was nothing illegal I had done, that is an abuse of powers. Even if you do transfer the money to your accounts now, it still is a form of punishment, seeing as how you are forcing me to pay back something that I cannot pay back. By degranting me 10k you had me at a zero balance, knowingly so, which causes a player the inability to play without disruption. If this was a simply "correction" as you're labeling it, you need to make sure that the player you degrant doesnt have any disruption of their game play, otherwise you are punishing them for mistakes they did not do.

 

There was a nearly two week lag delay between the loss of your 1m and you and Masaru deciding to do this action. It would be unreasonable to believe that a player would not spend money that they received, whether it was by mistake or not. I have attempted to talk to Masaru about this, but he is afk when I speak to him. So I do not have any verification that you actually did talk to him. Even if that is the case, I will have a near zero balance at all times then, I shall make my ships and make sure to keep a zero balance so that you cannot collect/degrant me for something that is not my fault. You did however threaten me with more extreme measures if I do not pay, but that would be a clear punishment for something illegal that I did not do.

 

Keep up the cool story about me being lazy while the choice not to implement the kind of 'security' you mention is one I made to prevent players losing money to unforseen circumstances.

So you made sure there was a foreseen security flaw instead?

 

@P Nut: if you don't see the difference between this and a dueling bet I'm afraid I will never be able to explain it well enough to you. Then again you're bound to just be trolling.

The point P Nut is trying to make is that staff policies have long dictated that transactions between player to player, or bot to player, has zero staff interference should a player be scammed or a bot have an exploit. All bots are at the owners risk, and all players do not have to ?give.

 

Meh, I don't see why Unix is so worried about losing money that wasn't his in the first place. Still, this e-drama is a good way to get through my popcorn reserves.

The thing is, the money is rightfully mine, since your bot willingly did give it to me. And I am worried about the money because I no longer have it.

 

Edit: since staffers apparently (of course Unix knows this better than actual staffers) have no authority to fix their own mistakes, who does?

It's not about having the authority to fix mistakes, it's about how your fix the mistakes. Fix the mistake another way obviously. You can just suck it up, seeing as how it was your fault that the money was lost because your bot had an exploit which you not only knew about, but ignored and simply hoped for the best. If this had happened to another player in your shoes, nothing would had been done, and also you do have the 1m in capital from two separate players who willingly gave you that money. You actually dont need the 1m you're attempting to recover from me.

[WhiskeyTango]

Is this SSForums or SSNursery? Hard to tell from all the QQ'ing...

[espo]

if you were degranted to zero balance I hardly see how that disrupts your ability to play since you already have ships (Ships that have been upgraded to the tune of 1m hsd I might add) so nice try there. Also keeping a zero balance won't save you from a mods wrath. They can simply degrant some of your ships or reset your account since you insist on whining about losing money that you stole in the first place. When that happens you could quit in protest but no one will care. You made your bed now lie in it.

[Unix]

espo, I actually dont have any ships other than one weasel that barely has anything on it. And also, the 1m I dont have, otherwise spidernl would had already taken it already. If I exploited a bot, that's perfectly legal.

[PlayWolf]

I like this story

 

espo, I actually dont have any ships other than one weasel that barely has anything on it. And also, the 1m I dont have, otherwise spidernl would had already taken it already. If I exploited a bot, that's perfectly legal.

 

You gave it all away , the question is.. if you think mods could not have the authority to mess with your account/bank. Why give it all away? You and Oid seem to have something going since and all, you gave most of it to him.

[Jet Life]

espo, I actually dont have any ships other than one weasel that barely has anything on it. And also, the 1m I dont have, otherwise spidernl would had already taken it already. If I exploited a bot, that's perfectly legal.

 

Unix stfu you dumb bitch you ruined the fucking duel league you should be banned for life cunt.

[spidernl]

Why am I even replying to Unix acting like the victim here, lolz.

 

If the money wasnt transferred to your account, or at least one of your accounts, all you're simply doing then is degranting me and not reverting this "mistake" that you are now labeling as what Masaru did. If you are simply degranting me, then it is a punishment. Seeing as how there was nothing illegal I had done, that is an abuse of powers. Even if you do transfer the money to your accounts now, it still is a form of punishment, seeing as how you are forcing me to pay back something that I cannot pay back. By degranting me 10k you had me at a zero balance, knowingly so, which causes a player the inability to play without disruption. If this was a simply "correction" as you're labeling it, you need to make sure that the player you degrant doesnt have any disruption of their game play, otherwise you are punishing them for mistakes they did not do.

 

There was a nearly two week lag delay between the loss of your 1m and you and Masaru deciding to do this action. It would be unreasonable to believe that a player would not spend money that they received, whether it was by mistake or not. I have attempted to talk to Masaru about this, but he is afk when I speak to him. So I do not have any verification that you actually did talk to him. Even if that is the case, I will have a near zero balance at all times then, I shall make my ships and make sure to keep a zero balance so that you cannot collect/degrant me for something that is not my fault. You did however threaten me with more extreme measures if I do not pay, but that would be a clear punishment for something illegal that I did not do.

 

Hardly a point to transfering the money ever single time I take it from you. It's better we find a way to make this not show up in the 'grant' portion of the ?money -d, and instead as 'give' money, to keep the statistics correct.

I can wait for now.

 

I also find it funny how you consider the degranting punishment. I thought that technically degranting is nothing more than 'adding' a 'negative sum' to a player's 'money variable', I didn't know it was intended purely as punishment or reward. But I guess Unix knows better.

 

Also, do you really think you're going to make a point against me by telling everyone that you gave away all the money after selling your ships?

Fun fact: if you hadn't quickly moved the money away from your account to prevent staff from correcting this mistake earlier, you wouldn't have been anywhere near zero balance after the whole degrant.

Are you going to complain you sabotaged this situation two weeks ago and hope we feel sorry? The 'extreme measures' are simple: seeing as you're already saying in this reply that you're going to sabotage our 'latest & greatest' attempt to correct the situation by keeping your account's money near-zero, we might have to get the money differently. Who knows.

 

So you made sure there was a foreseen security flaw instead?

 

Yes, I figured it would be safer to hope staff could keep themselves from 'abusing' ?aa than to risk issues that could be much harder to spot in the logs, and which could mean I could not pay back - which as a bank is bad, no?

 

The point P Nut is trying to make is that staff policies have long dictated that transactions between player to player, or bot to player, has zero staff interference should a player be scammed or a bot have an exploit. All bots are at the owners risk, and all players do not have to ?give.

 

Are you really this dumb or are you acting it? You just gave me the ultimate words to use: staff interference. The problem in this whole case is that there was staff interference, and we're now going to try and fix that.

 

The thing is, the money is rightfully mine, since your bot willingly did give it to me. And I am worried about the money because I no longer have it.

 

Imagine if a player with $2,000,000 in their account got the arena message "Player Unix gave you $1000000" and, out of the kindness of their heart, would immediately give that money 'back', without checking their money (who expects that kind of message to be fake?)? Same situation, and I imagine staff would do something about it, but mainly because the player would notice as soon as they did their next ?money - the money wasn't actually received! "Staff, please help!"

 

I still wonder why you keep using the 'I gave all the money away to sabotage the earlier attempt(s) of correction' as an argument to support your case, while it clearly supports mine.

[PlayWolf]

Why am I even replying to Unix acting like the victim here, lolz.

 

because, you are somewhat of a "victim" because you are accused for a failed bot. YOU MUST BE HEARD, unix should be tied down to a chair... muahahahaah... grab a Philips screwdriver, jam it under the fingernails ripping them off one by one... after you dug off all the finger nails... sprinkle some salt on the wounded fingers... then some hot sauce to mix in the wound, and use a hammer on each finger. mauahahahaha!

Edited November 30, 2010 by Wolfie

[Weebles Wobble]

It's a bit TL;DR in here

[PlayWolf]

It's a bit TL;DR in here

 

Then don't read it if it's too long for you to read.

[espo]

espo, I actually dont have any ships other than one weasel that barely has anything on it. And also, the 1m I dont have, otherwise spidernl would had already taken it already. If I exploited a bot, that's perfectly legal.

 

Then as I stated earlier, your abiltity to play was not disrupted by being degranted to a zero balance. You still had a weasel with barely anything on it.

[Unix]

If the money wasnt transferred to your account, or at least one of your accounts, all you're simply doing then is degranting me and not reverting this "mistake" that you are now labeling as what Masaru did. If you are simply degranting me, then it is a punishment. Seeing as how there was nothing illegal I had done, that is an abuse of powers. Even if you do transfer the money to your accounts now, it still is a form of punishment, seeing as how you are forcing me to pay back something that I cannot pay back. By degranting me 10k you had me at a zero balance, knowingly so, which causes a player the inability to play without disruption. If this was a simply "correction" as you're labeling it, you need to make sure that the player you degrant doesnt have any disruption of their game play, otherwise you are punishing them for mistakes they did not do.

 

There was a nearly two week lag delay between the loss of your 1m and you and Masaru deciding to do this action. It would be unreasonable to believe that a player would not spend money that they received, whether it was by mistake or not. I have attempted to talk to Masaru about this, but he is afk when I speak to him. So I do not have any verification that you actually did talk to him. Even if that is the case, I will have a near zero balance at all times then, I shall make my ships and make sure to keep a zero balance so that you cannot collect/degrant me for something that is not my fault. You did however threaten me with more extreme measures if I do not pay, but that would be a clear punishment for something illegal that I did not do.

 

Hardly a point to transfering the money ever single time I take it from you. It's better we find a way to make this not show up in the 'grant' portion of the ?money -d, and instead as 'give' money, to keep the statistics correct.

I can wait for now.

So far you've now taken 17k from me. Are you saying you want to wait to transfer it all or wait until I'm going to give back the money? Either way, it'll be a long time for you to wait.

 

I also find it funny how you consider the degranting punishment. I thought that technically degranting is nothing more than 'adding' a 'negative sum' to a player's 'money variable', I didn't know it was intended purely as punishment or reward. But I guess Unix knows better.

In the way it is generally used, it is almost exclusive used as a punishment in Hyperspace. The way you are using it is also a form of punishment, you are just simply using a different label though and titling it as "corrective measures".

 

Also, do you really think you're going to make a point against me by telling everyone that you gave away all the money after selling your ships?

Fun fact: if you hadn't quickly moved the money away from your account to prevent staff from correcting this mistake earlier, you wouldn't have been anywhere near zero balance after the whole degrant.

Are you going to complain you sabotaged this situation two weeks ago and hope we feel sorry? The 'extreme measures' are simple: seeing as you're already saying in this reply that you're going to sabotage our 'latest & greatest' attempt to correct the situation by keeping your account's money near-zero, we might have to get the money differently. Who knows.

If I want to sell my ships and give away my money that was given to me by a bot, I can do so. As a player, I have the right to do with whatever money I have in my account. If you feel you were in the right to degrant me in the beginning, you should had. Especially seeing as how I didnt start "moving the money" until several days after the incident occurred. If you want to take extreme measures to try and retrieve money that isnt rightfully yours because your bot gave it to me, that would be an even greater abuse of powers than what is already occurring.

 

So you made sure there was a foreseen security flaw instead?

 

Yes, I figured it would be safer to hope staff could keep themselves from 'abusing' ?aa than to risk issues that could be much harder to spot in the logs, and which could mean I could not pay back - which as a bank is bad, no?

The thing is, you knew already that staff do do that already. It's not news that the staff here do that. So you're hoping for what exactly? Just admit you were lazy and you didnt know how to solve a known problem.

 

The point P Nut is trying to make is that staff policies have long dictated that transactions between player to player, or bot to player, has zero staff interference should a player be scammed or a bot have an exploit. All bots are at the owners risk, and all players do not have to ?give.

 

Are you really this dumb or are you acting it? You just gave me the ultimate words to use: staff interference. The problem in this whole case is that there was staff interference, and we're now going to try and fix that.

There wasnt staff interference. Your bot took it the wrong way, which isnt anyone one staff's fault. If your bot takes it the wrong way, it's your own fault for making a bot that doesnt have any precautions or safety measures to even try and prevent that.

 

Staff has never interfered in any post money transfers. If staff says something and your bot takes it the wrong way and for some reason gives out tons of cash, staff should not step in, but according to you, since they're trying to make up for your mistake, they should interfere.

 

 

The thing is, the money is rightfully mine, since your bot willingly did give it to me. And I am worried about the money because I no longer have it.

 

Imagine if a player with $2,000,000 in their account got the arena message "Player Unix gave you $1000000" and, out of the kindness of their heart, would immediately give that money 'back', without checking their money (who expects that kind of message to be fake?)? Same situation, and I imagine staff would do something about it, but mainly because the player would notice as soon as they did their next ?money - the money wasn't actually received! "Staff, please help!"

So why cant a bot do that too? Why cant your bot check to see if it had the money before it says you deposited the money? You were just too lazy to even try and code it.

 

 

I still wonder why you keep using the 'I gave all the money away to sabotage the earlier attempt(s) of correction' as an argument to support your case, while it clearly supports mine.

My case revolves around you not having the authority to take my money period. Whether or not I have 10m or 0 is not the point, the point is you have no authority to do so.

[Cheese]

TL;DR:

• spidernl made a bank bot
  
• spidernl knew that he had to check bot's money, and chose not to
  
• unix asked a mod to do an arena message.
  
• the bot freely gave money away, a result of spidernl's choice.
  
• spidernl cried
  
• two people gave spidernl a million dollars
  
• spidernl is now abusing his powers as a jrmod to take money from unix.
  

 

ps: every bank bot in hs history has had fake arena messages, grow up newbie

 

 

also lol @ ppl giving spidernl 1m, and still no bot in sight

ez money

 

pps:

unix being a dirty whore has nothing to do with this

the issue is these unqualified jrmods are running around out of control

 

.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Cheese

[-sri-]

It's not Unix's fault by "exploiting" that bot since anyone would have done it if they thought about it, and as a bot developer, it's your job to make sure to think about all the exploits and to make sure they don't happen..

 

I don't remember the log-in info to my other account so I made a new one

[Raw-Tard]

alright, this is how this post is gonna go

 

spidernl abusing powers and is made and qq'ing cuz he bad sad mad un-rad etc..

 

 

no need 2 say more or less cuz thats wat happened

 

its upper mods decision to ban spidernl for life and call him bad sad mad un-rad etc.. until he qq's and pleads to come back

 

 

wat more must b said?

[PlayWolf]

Fail.

[Zasso]

My personal favourite:

If I exploited a bot, that's perfectly legal.

 

Why is the word "If" still being used?

I thought it was already proven..

LOL.

 

 

Ohhh E-Drama. My favourite! Even beats JDramas, KDramas, TDramas.

[spidernl]

I guess you're really just too stupid to understand.

I suggest closing this thread, it was only created to be flamebait anyway.

 

Discuss this with Masaru, these matters aren't for the forums.