UB-HyperBank

[spidernl]

UB-HyperBank is offline until Unix has returned the million he stole from it. This is because I don't want to risk players losing money due to the bot lacking a million.

For those who believed Unix when he claimed he didn't scam the bot (note: this is in chatnet protocol, but should make sense with a little thought):

 

MSG:FREQ:Unix:Masa, can you do... "?aa Player Unix gave you $1000000." in pub chat
MSG:ARENA:Player Unix gave you $1000000.
SEND:PRIV:Unix:Thank you for your deposit of $1000000. Your account balance is now $1000000.

-----Proof that this wasn't a genuine deposit------
MSG:FREQ:Kai Ossa:Stop aboosing green txt pl0x
----------------End of epic proof------------------

MSG:PRIV:Unix:!bal
SEND:PRIV:Unix:You currently have $1000000 in your account.
MSG:PRIV:Unix:!withdraw 1000000
SEND:PRIV:Unix:?give 1000000here is the money you requested.
MSG:ARENA:You gave Unix $1000000.

 

Of course the bot will have some 'security enhancements' that will prevent this kind of stuff

from happening in the future as soon as it is back online.

In the meantime the bot will keep giving interest to keep you all happy.

 

If you want to have access to your money as soon as possible, harass Unix.

I've been told by Masaru that Unix has to pay me the million in 3 days, so that's the most you should have to wait.

 

Let the "Lol good job Unix you successfully scammed a bot by manipulating an smod!!!" ensue.

Edited November 18, 2010 by spidernl

[Kilo]

why weren't these "security enhancements" done in the first place

how can we trust you haven't "forgotten" other basic security requirements

i am taking my money elsewhere

scam bot

[spidernl]

why weren't these "security enhancements" done in the first place

how can we trust you haven't "forgotten" other basic security requirements

i am taking my money elsewhere

scam bot

 

Pro troll is pro.

Anyway, as a bot owner you don't expect to have to implement security enhancements

to prevent being 'scammed' by something only staff can do, eh.

[BZAP]

UB-HyperBank is offline until Unix has returned the million he stole from it. This is because I don't want to risk players losing money due to the bot lacking a million.

For those who believed Unix when he claimed he didn't scam the bot (note: this is in chatnet protocol, but should make sense with a little thought):

 

MSG:FREQ:Unix:Masa, can you do... "?aa Player Unix gave you $1000000." in pub chat
MSG:ARENA:Player Unix gave you $1000000.
SEND:PRIV:Unix:Thank you for your deposit of $1000000. Your account balance is now $1000000.

-----Proof that this wasn't a genuine deposit------
MSG:FREQ:Kai Ossa:Stop aboosing green txt pl0x
----------------End of epic proof------------------

MSG:PRIV:Unix:!bal
SEND:PRIV:Unix:You currently have $1000000 in your account.
MSG:PRIV:Unix:!withdraw 1000000
SEND:PRIV:Unix:?give 1000000here is the money you requested.
MSG:ARENA:You gave Unix $1000000.

 

Of course the bot will have some 'security enhancements' that will prevent this kind of stuff

from happening in the future as soon as it is back online.

In the meantime the bot will keep giving interest to keep you all happy.

 

If you want to have access to your money as soon as possible, harass Unix.

I've been told by Masaru that Unix has to pay me the million in 3 days, so that's the most you should have to wait.

 

Let the "Lol good job Unix you successfully scammed a bot by manipulating an smod!!!" ensue.

I lold. To be fair, I don't think anyone could have foreseen this. But the fault is yours. It sucks but man up and take the blame.

[spidernl]

I lold. To be fair, I don't think anyone could have foreseen this. But the fault is yours. It sucks but man up and take the blame.

 

Not implementing a 'Check ?money before continuing' was a design choice. The problem with doing ?money every time is that it

slows the bot down considerably due to having to queue your 'outgoing messages' (or getting silenced, if that's preferable).

 

I figured that this wouldn't happen as I thought that by now (how many times has this happened? 20? 30?) all staff would know

that bots can't see the difference between an arena message faking money transfers and a real one.

 

The pathetic part is that Unix noticed that Masaru didn't know (why else would he do it) and, for that reason, didn't mention

how he just managed to scam 1m with his help.

 

Edit: Yay for tiny spelling corrections causing this EDITED BY SPIDERNL tag.

Edited November 18, 2010 by spidernl

[Kilo]

as a bank owner you are expected to implement basic and even then some security

 

masaru didn't know

that's the best joke of this thread

[espo]

Isn't that called exploiting a bug and therefore banable?

 

If not why doesn't a smod just degrant all of his ships and money.

[Dav]

Isn't that called exploiting a bug and therefore banable?

 

If not why doesn't a smod just degrant all of his ships and money.

 

BUT as dr brain said in another thread bots are not zone sanctioned and so it is not exploiting a zone bug.

 

The abuse of mod privileges however is something that can be tackled should TPTB wish to.

[P Nut]

So you're going to hold 10m of everyone's money hostage because of your design choice? Don't make innocent players responsible for this. The only logical move to do now is return everyone's money without interest and shut down the bot. The entire concept behind this bot is a Ponzi scheme and would have been bound to fail sooner or later. It is better this incident happened before the system collapsed, possibly scamming the majority of people that used it.

 

Also, a harmless arena message is hardly abuse, Dav. Masaru knows nothing about bots, he should not be held accountable by any means.

Edited November 19, 2010 by P Nut

[ArcticxWolf]

lolz

[Samapico]

SEND:PRIV:Unix:?give 1000000here is the money you requested.

Might want to add a space in there between the number and 'here'... might make the parser do funny things.

[Emit]

called it.

 

zero risk my ass

Edited November 19, 2010 by Emit

[Cheese]

why do idiots that invest in scambots bother complaining?

[Dav]

So you're going to hold 10m of everyone's money hostage because of your design choice? Don't make innocent players responsible for this. The only logical move to do now is return everyone's money without interest and shut down the bot. The entire concept behind this bot is a Ponzi scheme and would have been bound to fail sooner or later. It is better this incident happened before the system collapsed, possibly scamming the majority of people that used it.

 

Also, a harmless arena message is hardly abuse, Dav. Masaru knows nothing about bots, he should not be held accountable by any means.

Spider was insistant that it was not a ponzi scheeme. I am please its not just me that saw this.

 

Apparently to begin its being run as a test with funding from spiderNL and a few other "investors".

 

In the long term I like the idea of a loan system to make money to pay interest, kina like a high street bank BUT it has the issue that the loan cannot be secured and people can just run off with it.

[spidernl]

So you're going to hold 10m of everyone's money hostage because of your design choice? Don't make innocent players responsible for this. The only logical move to do now is return everyone's money without interest and shut down the bot. The entire concept behind this bot is a Ponzi scheme and would have been bound to fail sooner or later. It is better this incident happened before the system collapsed, possibly scamming the majority of people that used it.

 

First of all I am holding approximately 10m of people because I do not want to risk people doing !withdraw and not getting a penny. And that isn't because of my design choice, but because of Unix taking advantage of an smod not knowing this would happen (he said this in a ?message, so despite Kilo trolling me I'll stick to this). Also, giving everyone back their money now would be equal to giving Unix $1,000,000 HSD involuntarily. No thanks.

 

And please, can you just stop trying to troll me by claiming things you have absolutely no evidence for. I have plenty of ways to prove that this bot is not a ponzi scheme:

1) If it were I'd have ran with the money by now. 13 million is plenty for a scam.

2) It's backed by at least 3 players: Me, Rivel and Neostar. All of these players have a few things going for them that prove they're more trustworthy than your average HS player:

- A jrmod scamming the zone would hardly be a good way to prove he's suitable for a position of (relative) responsibility.

- Rivel is an smod, the same applies to him, and probably 'another level up'.

- Neostar did a manual 'neobank' that didn't end up being a scam either.

 

The idea is to test, through a large user base, if it's possible to have some kind of (semi) automated loan system in HS and we're willing to spend some money to test that.

 

Spider was insistant that it was not a ponzi scheeme. I am please its not just me that saw this.

 

Apparently to begin its being run as a test with funding from spiderNL and a few other "investors".

 

In the long term I like the idea of a loan system to make money to pay interest, kina like a high street bank BUT it has the issue that the loan cannot be secured and people can just run off with it.

 

This.

[P Nut]

I'm not saying you are intentionally scamming people. The current arrangement to yield interest is a clear definition of a Ponzi scheme.

 

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned.

 

Now, I understand your ultimate goal is to have a loan system. I, however, do not see that ever being possible without the bot being assisted by staff power. Since I do not see or sense any concerted effort in this direction, I can only assess the bot for what it is currently. Ponzious.

[spidernl]

I'm not saying you are intentionally scamming people. The current arrangement to yield interest is a clear definition of a Ponzi scheme.

 

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned.

 

Now, I understand your ultimate goal is to have a loan system. I, however, do not see that ever being possible without the bot being assisted by staff power. Since I do not see or sense any concerted effort in this direction, I can only assess the bot for what it is currently. Ponzious.

 

Clearly the bank doesn't match that. First of all there are no investors, a more accurate term is donators. They don't intend nor expect to get anything back.

Also the Ponzi scheme in the rest of the article is discussed as a fraudulent operation, whereas I don't intend to make anyone lose any money whatsoever.

[P Nut]

Every person that has money in the bot is an investor.

Investment is putting money into something with the hope of profit. More specifically, investment is the commitment of money or capital to the purchase of financial instruments or other assets so as to gain profitable returns in the form of interest, income {dividend}, or appreciation of the value of the instrument.

 

The original donators only pooled in capital to get the ball rolling.

From here on out I will cease to use the word "scheme" to avoid its negative connotation. However, the mechanism is still Ponzious.

Edited November 19, 2010 by P Nut

[spidernl]

Every person that has money in the bot is an investor.

Investment is putting money into something with the hope of profit. More specifically, investment is the commitment of money or capital to the purchase of financial instruments or other assets so as to gain profitable returns in the form of interest, income {dividend}, or appreciation of the value of the instrument.

 

The original donators only pooled in capital to get the ball rolling.

From here on out I will cease to use the word "scheme" to avoid its negative connotation. However, the mechanism is still Ponzious.

 

The part that you made bold shows exactly why you're wrong: Investment is putting money into something with the hope of profit. They're not hoping for profit.

Also an easy way to make the negative tone of your whole argument go away is the fact that as soon as I'd run out of donated money, I'd simply cease giving interest and let people withdraw their money. Not very fraudulent.

 

I still don't get why I'm receiving so much hate for giving away my money to HS' populace through interest.

Edited November 19, 2010 by spidernl

[P Nut]

People are expecting a return of interest. If they receive more money than they put into it, it is a profit. You are promising them .5% weekly profit. Edited November 19, 2010 by P Nut

[Jareth]

It doesn't matter if this is a Ponzi scheme or not. Userbots are ran by users and are usually made to make money. People are depositing their money knowing this.

 

What should be discussed is how a staff member used their power to trick a bot to help somebody get money from it. I know he didn't know about this, but he should think about what he is doing before he does it. Also, the money should be returned from Unix, because staff was involved in the stealing.

[spidernl]

People are expecting a return of interest. If they receive more money than they put into it, it is a profit. You are promising them .5% weekly profit.

 

The players are however not the ones funding that interest. Therefore they aren't the "donator" or "investor" group and their profit is irrelevant.

[P Nut]

What should be discussed is how a staff member used their power to trick a bot to help somebody get money from it. I know he didn't know about this, but he should think about what he is doing before he does it.

Think about what you just said. He should think about what he's doing although he didn't know about it? Under any other circumstance a harmless arena message prank is harmless.

 

The players are however not the ones funding that interest. Therefore they aren't the "donator" or "investor" group and their profit is irrelevant.

You edited your previous post after I had posted. Unintentionally, I assume.

as soon as I'd run out of donated money, I'd simply cease giving interest and let people withdraw their money. Not very fraudulent.

You never spoke of this before, it is suspiciously sudden. Edited November 19, 2010 by P Nut

[spidernl]

as soon as I'd run out of donated money, I'd simply cease giving interest and let people withdraw their money. Not very fraudulent.

You never spoke of this before, it is suspiciously sudden.

 

I expected that to be common sense - what else could a non-scamming bank do? There's no other option. Unless you consider "Start using players' deposits as a source of money to pay interest with" (= ponzi scheme in reality) an option.

 

Edit: altered the wording a bit..

Edited November 19, 2010 by spidernl

[»SD>Big]

what a fiasco. like brain said, the user bots are not endorsed by HS. use them at your own risk!