Healthcare Bill Passed

[NBVegita]

I think welfare is something we should have in place, but the current U.S. welfare system is one of the most broken systems in the world.

 

Welfare should be around to help people through rough times, until they can get back in their feet. Welfare should not completely subsidize a person in every capacity.

 

I see where both sides are coming from.

 

My concern is that welfare already provides more for most people than a entry level job could. Assuming you keep moving forward with it and provide them full health care too, it really eliminates the incentive to work. Sure you will have poor people who want to work (my father did) and who are too proud for welfare, but in a society where people are becoming more and more "entitled" I see that being the exception and not the rule. If you're going to provide such benefits, you need to be very strict as to who gets welfare and for how long they can receive it. In fact if you did this and added the proper staff to the system (as it's terribly understaffed) I would whole heartedly support it. Unfortunately I do have a problem further expanding a broken system, thus making it even more difficult to fix.

[SeVeR]

I totally agree with you on every point there NBV. Welfare is excessive. I was defending the very existence of a welfare system (in whatever form it should take) against the ridiculous notion of using charities.

 

I would propose starting people at full welfare and slowly reducing it (weaning them off it) until it reaches a minimum. This minimum would be the smallest possible amount for survival. I would also propose substituting money for "stamps", like food stamps, so it is spent properly. You'd get phone-stamps, electricity-stamps, nappy-stamps for mothers. When I was in the US I always remember hearing some woman on welfare, living in a trailor saying "I don't even get enough money to pay my cable bill", and I was like, "f'ing hell, use terrestrial TV, it's free you spoilt little..."

 

When people complain about not having enough money when they have a 30 dollar a month phone contract and a 20 dollar a month cable-TV contract it makes me want to punch them.

[whalz]

welfare is a way to keep your roof and have some food (verylittle food)

 

in canada a lowpaying job 9$ 40hours a week pays double welfare..

 

so unless your handicaped some how and get like 1000$ more.. well lets face it.. no one on welfare gets ahead in life

 

 

if your on welfare you face this decision.

-stay on welfare and 'exist' or use welfare as a tool to get a better job and do more than just exist.

 

if welfare vanished, the tool wouldnt be there, there would be more homeless / hungry / whatever.. but the incentive to get a job would be higher and the easy way out would be taken away... however welfare is NOT a bad thing... and in our day and age who cares.. just think to yourself "well damn im not on welfare so at least i have a chance"

 

your better off than they are, so dont put them down, as they already are.

[Sketter]

welfare is a way to keep your roof and have some food (verylittle food)

 

in canada a lowpaying job 9$ 40hours a week pays double welfare..

 

 

Are you sure about that? Maybe it's just me and many years have passed but at one point, the difference from making minimum wage and welfare was a difference of $40, with minimum wage on top., However the issue with this is that most minimum wage jobs do not offer benefits, as where the Ontario welfare system you were entitled to benefits, so to some people, it was more beneficial to be under the system and work under the table.

 

Not that i'm saying welfare is bad, but it's broken. The welfare system needs to create a system to get people out of welfare, so people do not abuse the system. Maybe things are better now, i haven't looked into this for a while now.

 

Here is the main problem with health care being government run... Look at Canada.

 

I LOVE my private health insurance.

I can schedule an appointment, walk in, and be seen. I don't have to wait in ridiculously long lines. I can plan other things to do that day instead of blocking the whole day for "doctor visit"

 

Umm... that is exactly how the Ontario health care system works.

 

There is this odd argument when people talk about waiting lines.

This is how some of it works.

In a walk-in clinic, it's first come first serve.

If you have a family doctor, you make an appointment, you get seen at the reasonable time you requested, and you go on about your day.

At the ER you are assessed from the moment you go in by triage, and seen based on assessment. (someone having a heart attack isn't going to wait for the man with foot pain to be seen first)

 

The wait times comes from specialist (referred by family doctor kind), and tests. (again, those that happen to be referrals, not those done in ER, those are done immediately if required them)

However again, based on your assessment, your doctor has the capability to prioritize your needs.

Getting an MRI used to be really bad. There used to be really bad wait lines, however with some political movement, the government was forced to fix that issue. (or else fall from power) So even under government run health care, a problem came up, and it was fixed.

 

Another problem is that Ontario has a doctor shortage. This does create longer lines for specialists (none immediate life threatening) however this has to do with credentials being recognized in Canada (let alone Ontario) Not the health care system itself.

Canada fails to recognized credentials from doctors who got their credentials in different parts of the world. If you want food for thought, the USA recognizes these doctors that we don't. So if you credentials are from somewhere else, you have a better opportunity to practice in the USA then in Canada. However the system is being worked on. (There is a Star article that most of this is based on that i can't seem to find right now, but over the years we have been allowing more doctors to practice)

 

There is no medical testing i need to do, no pre-existing conditions that will determine if the government will pay for a surgery/treatment.

No matter how much my surgery or treatment cost worth, it will happen.

 

If anything, to be honest, i would rather put back some services that used to be covered, back on the system.

In the late 90's we had a very right wing Ontario government that slashed away lots of the health care system. It ended up leading to their defeat in the next election (and what he did to the teachers), but the current one hasn't fixed all the holes the last one left. (their no better really, but they know not to piss off the public and not take away stuff from the health care system)

 

I've come to understand that there are some big differences from Canada and the USA. And from what I understand, their brought up in a fend for yourself type of mentality, and help your family, and friends, but forget about joe blow down the street. Now I'm not saying this statement is sound, and applies to everyone. But it's the general understanding I get.

 

There is this argument that "why should my tax dollars, why should my money, go to some one else?" (in terms of heath care)

Do you realize that even when you pay for private health care, you are doing the exact same thing?

 

So you pay for private health care. Now say you pay monthly, and for 5 months while you paid into it, you didn't make a doc visit, no ER, no nothing to claim.

But say another client from the same health care company (what ever you call them, for the exact same period of time you have been paying for your heath care insurance 5 months) had to make a claim for a very expensive sugary, that the total amount of premiums he paid over the 5 months doesn't even come close to to the cost of the sugary. So in turn, the health care provided ended up taking the money out of everyone else to pay for his sugary.

 

Your thoughts? (i'm sure many of your can't wait to jump on this one)

 

Canada didn't always have a universal health care system. And back in the days when it was also a bill, the private word did their best to stop it from happening. Saying what ever they could to stop it. Yet it passed, and now a lot of us like the system. Sure it can be better, but you can say that about any system, in the private and public sector. The only difference is if it's actually working, and if something is being done to fix what isn't working any more.

 

I wouldn't trade what i have...well, maybe for a UK system.

 

Sketter

(go ahead, jump all over this)

Edited March 31, 2010 by Sketter

[Bak]

And from what I understand, their brought up in a fend for yourself type of mentality, and help your family, and friends, but forget about joe blow down the street.

Not everyone in the US is like this, and even for people who are brought up in an overly self-reliant way, it's not like they don't care about anyone else. It's more that you should help your neighbor out of your own free will, not be forced to by the government.

[NBVegita]

I agree with what you said Bak.

 

For most people its not a matter of helping out people who need it, it's being forced to help a lot of people, without them always needing it. (See my post above for the problems with the U.S. welfare system.)

[whalz]

i see no real problem in tax dollars going to them.. however they must be taught how to get out of welfare and into workning.. if they just chill in welfare forever and are capable of working.. it's unacceptable.

 

id rather all my tax go there than to feed poliiticians pockets, however

[ESCANDAL0SA]

honestly, just from reading some of these comments, it's clear many americans are ignorant about the canadian health care system. it's not socialized medicine. canada has a publicly-funded, privately delivered health care system. socialized medicine would entail that health care providers are employed by the government, which is not true, the majority of providers charge fee-for-service and deliver health care privately. there is a public sector, as well as a private sector, but the private sector is comprised of dental care, eye care, prescription drugs, etc. realistically speaking, most canadians have some sort of private insurance, also known as the benefits they receive from employers. canada uses a triage system when assessing individuals in terms of the ER and surgeries. if someone is in more urgent need of a MRI or CT than you, then they will get it first. i don't think there's anything unfair about that. regardless, americans over-exaggerate the wait times because they're so naive and listen to what american media tells them without ever looking at the facts. i'm a dual-citizen and i would take care in canada over america any day. people in canada don't die from waiting for care lol that's the most absurd thing i've ever read/heard. if you have cancer, you receive treatment right away. the only long waits canadians experience is for elective surgeries, and sometimes, in the doctor's office but even then, you don't wait a whole day to see a doctor. it's an hour or so at the most. people who complain about having to buy health insurance in america are only complaining until they, or their family, get really sick and need countless scans, tests, doctor visits, surgeries, etc. in canada, we don't go bankrupt because of unforeseen medical conditions/illnesses/accidents, and i think i speak for all canadians when i say that we have that sense of security.