A Hyperspace Bank Bot

[spidernl]

So basically, I've been working on a bank bot for a while, and I'm working on a loan system. Now, I hope Lynx will post his nice little, non-working loaning system here. Gogo!

[Kilo]

Another scam so soon?

[spidernl]

Another scam so soon?

 

Yeah, it's going to give players 50% interest per minute.

[L.C.]

Has someone accomplished a pyramid-scheme like thing yet?

 

lol. *imagines news headlines of Hyperspace coppers cracking down on Hyperspace crime*

[»Lynx]

OKay, SpiderNL spent an hour or so trying to understand the principles of this bot. Before I begin, here are the reasons why 'banking' bots will fail in Hyperspace:

 

* There is zero risk for the players

* There is 100% risk to the bot/bot owner

* There are no assets to claim if somebody doesn't pay back their loan

 

To take that into consideration, if a bot were ever to be made; I'd argue that it should be 100% automated, open and therefore, less likely to be scammed by both the players, or by the bot owners greed.

 

Therefore, each player should be allowed an insignificant base loan, which we will say is 100hs$. This base loan should only be available, provided the user has say 20 kills/?showmoney/?usage criteria met. Then, for each hs$ loaned out, a player can be awarded x Credits. In this example, we'll say 0.10 credits. A loan of 100hs$ will therefore, give a player 1 credit. To make loans get bigger a little faster, we'll have an interator increase the credit worth by (x-value) per loan that's carried out. If you don't get this, view the chart at the bottom of this post.

 

We can then say, for each credit awarded will give more in future loans. So, for our example, we'll say that one credit more will give you 10hs$ per loan. So, after one loan is paid back, you can then loan 110hs$. These values can obviously be changed to suit the 'economy' of hyperspace.

 

Then, to help the bot be profitable (and therefore capable of giving out larger loans, and withstanding the inevitable truth that somebody will scam the bot), an interest rate needs to be put in place (to allow a player to also not be stung too badly by the bot).

 

So, going by those principles, if a user takes out a loan of $100, they'll gain 1 credit, and therefore will be able to loan out $110 after they've paid back the original $110. Now, if the user carries on placing loans, going by that method it would run as:

 

Note: Ignore the rounded values column.

 

Then of course, people will try and scam such a system - to handle that you'd allow the loan to be paid back via hours*credits*2 or whatever suits you. Once a player doesn't pay back, they'll be blacklisted. Now of course, knowing hyperspace people will probably try to build up their loan as much as possible, before pulling out.

 

Other features that can easily be implemented is a !vote to blacklist players that are known to scam, to ?showmoney to only allow players with x exp to use it (less chance of scamming, again), or have players selected that can all !veto on whether a player should get a loan, if it's above a danger limit, or whatever. Either way, this system requires $100 in investment, and is capable of making a lot of money, while being a useful service.

 

I'm not an idiot, so I know it will be scammed - however if I were to create a damn banking bot, I'd do this instead of a pointless, literally, _POINTLESS_ bot that just works out how much I've lent out, and adds interest to that.

 

Seeing as I can't expect anything more to come from this thread, other than SpiderNL fapping on that it'll be scammed, or people won't use it because it takes too long to build up money, I really doubt I'll reply again.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Lynx

[spidernl]

Time to reply to every bit..

 

OKay, SpiderNL spent an hour or so trying to understand the principles of this bot. Before I begin, here are the reasons why 'banking' bots will fail in Hyperspace:

 

Stop lying, thank you. I got the point, I just said the whole thing is useless. That's not the same thing you know.

 

* There is zero risk for the players

* There is 100% risk to the bot/bot owner

* There are no assets to claim if somebody doesn't pay back their loan

 

All of those are correct, which is why I don't work with an automated system.

 

To take that into consideration, if a bot were ever to be made; I'd argue that it should be 100% automated, open and therefore, less likely to be scammed by both the players, or by the bot owners greed.

 

Therefore, each player should be allowed an insignificant base loan, which we will say is 100hs$. This base loan should only be available, provided the user has say 20 kills/?showmoney/?usage criteria met. Then, for each hs$ loaned out, a player can be awarded x Credits. In this example, we'll say 0.10 credits. A loan of 100hs$ will therefore, give a player 1 credit. To make loans get bigger a little faster, we'll have an interator increase the credit worth by (x-value) per loan that's carried out. If you don't get this, view the chart at the bottom of this post.

 

We can then say, for each credit awarded will give more in future loans. So, for our example, we'll say that one credit more will give you 10hs$ per loan. So, after one loan is paid back, you can then loan 110hs$. These values can obviously be changed to suit the 'economy' of hyperspace.

 

Then, to help the bot be profitable (and therefore capable of giving out larger loans, and withstanding the inevitable truth that somebody will scam the bot), an interest rate needs to be put in place (to allow a player to also not be stung too badly by the bot).

 

So, going by those principles, if a user takes out a loan of $100, they'll gain 1 credit, and therefore will be able to loan out $110 after they've paid back the original $110. Now, if the user carries on placing loans, going by that method it would run as:

 

Note: Ignore the rounded values column.

 

Then of course, people will try and scam such a system - to handle that you'd allow the loan to be paid back via hours*credits*2 or whatever suits you. Once a player doesn't pay back, they'll be blacklisted. Now of course, knowing hyperspace people will probably try to build up their loan as much as possible, before pulling out.

 

Other features that can easily be implemented is a !vote to blacklist players that are known to scam, to ?showmoney to only allow players with x exp to use it (less chance of scamming, again), or have players selected that can all !veto on whether a player should get a loan, if it's above a danger limit, or whatever. Either way, this system requires $100 in investment, and is capable of making a lot of money, while being a useful service.

 

I'm not an idiot, so I know it will be scammed - however if I were to create a damn banking bot, I'd do this instead of a pointless, literally, _POINTLESS_ bot that just works out how much I've lent out, and adds interest to that.

 

Seeing as I can't expect anything more to come from this thread, other than SpiderNL fapping on that it'll be scammed, or people won't use it because it takes too long to build up money, I really doubt I'll reply again.

 

Now, anyone can figure out by looking at that table, that in order to loan say 50k, you'll have to put in (over) 50k beforehand as a player. That's a fact that you can't deny, which you did try many times in team chat.

So can you explain to me again why the hell anyone would want to pay 50k in interest over the previous "steps" in order to get a 50k loan? They could as well just hold onto the 50k rather than losing money on purpose.

 

Also, I'd call a bot that works out interest and such for me quite useful, definitely more useful than this. Unless, of course, you think saving up money by handing it over to a bot and then borrowing it later on is a good idea.

Edited February 6, 2010 by spidernl

[Dr Brain]

lol. *imagines news headlines of Hyperspace coppers cracking down on Hyperspace crime*

 

If people are dumb enough to ?give someone money and expect anything back, then we're not about to help them.

[»Lynx]

You do need to spend that much money to get a 50K loan, just like it costs 10 fold the amount to build a final ship, as you have to run through numerous upgrades before you can get the best equipment.

 

In order for the bank to survive the high chance it will be scammed, it needs to charge interest on loans to recoup for the (inevitable) damages, and the trust-buildup will help build more money but will help invest, instead of exploit. A typical 50K loan would be available (in my experimental, thought-out in 5 minutes model) at about 59% interest, after ~25 loans have already been made. The bank will have already, by that time, profited by approximately 50 thousand - however I am sure if I gave even half a care into designing a competitive (not risk free) system, I could cut all of those figures. Either way, all of this skips the fact that you're attempting to make a banking bot, in which case what I have provided is the nearest thing, requires the least capital to start, and is most fair.

 

PS. You clearly never got the point, because you're firstly an idiot, and secondly - if you had understood, you wouldn't have been continuously babbling stupid, illogical questions.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Lynx

[BDwinsAlt]

I like the gamble bots better. Even if they do steal my money.

[Misou Angel]

I like the gamble bots better. Even if they do steal my money.

 

I got a better gambling idea, How about you give me the money you want to gamble, I'll flip a two headed coin, and give you a random chance (.0144%) to win x3 your money.

 

Honestly, Lynx, you're missing the point completely.

Insert coins and Try again pls.

[»Lynx]

Incorrect. SpiderNL said that he wanted help with the logic of his 'banking and shares' bot, to help make sure it will not lose money if it gets scammed. The above is a banking bot that is guaranteed to always survive in the chance of scams. The only time the bank will run a loss (i.e. my money) is when you withdraw 100hs$ without paying back. Of course there are other ways of scamming it, but a little human intervention after a scam makes those chances vanishingly small. Thanks for playing. Edited February 7, 2010 by Lynx

[spidernl]

Incorrect. SpiderNL said that he wanted help with the logic of his 'banking and shares' bot, to help make sure it will not lose money if it gets scammed.

 

I'd take a reading course if I were you, I never asked for anything related to the actual loan system, and never even mentioned scamming through loans. Nice try, though.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Indeed, you obviously lost as you didn't reply to the criticism I posted a little earlier. Thanks for playing.

 

PS. You clearly never got the point, because you're firstly an idiot

 

Personal insults. Now I've won the argument for sure

Those illogical questions you mentioned were, just in case you really are bad at reading, just ironic and/or sarcastic remarks about your bank bot concept, which is built in such a way that it has exactly no use (Yeah, it's totally useful to spend 50k to get a 50k loan later on. Since when can you not just hold onto that 50k instead? It's much cheaper, as you don't even have to pay back that 50k..)

Edited February 7, 2010 by spidernl

[»Lynx]

That's quite rich. You're trying to say that I can't read, when I clearly answered your question. Perhaps the condescending comments on reading courses should be saved for other morons such as yourself. Here, let me walk you through this one:

 

So can you explain to me again why the hell anyone would want to pay 50k in interest over the previous "steps" in order to get a 50k loan? They could as well just hold onto the 50k rather than losing money on purpose.

 

You do need to spend that much money to get a 50K loan, just like it costs 10 fold the amount to build a final ship, as you have to run through numerous upgrades before you can get the best equipment.

 

Seeing as your comprehension skills are minimal, I'll elaborate further for you on my example. A 'final' ship in Hyperspace will typically be far less valuable than the price it cost for you to get that final ship. The same logic applies to loans in this system. I didn't notice any other blatant questions in your babbling replies. If I missed something, let me know what.

 

---

 

Now to dissect your whole (shockingly dumb) 'can you not just hold onto that 50k instead? It's much cheaper, as you don't even have to pay back that 50k' comment and logic. If things were as simple as that, what IS the point in a bot that gives out loans? Why would anybody EVER need a loan, if they could just hold onto the money and spend it later? I mean, seriously?

 

And LOL to you trying to jump on the great white righteous horse because I called you an idiot. Goodness me, I never knew that stating somebodies obvious behavior was such a personal threat; please - do not jump off a building, I'd hate to have that hanging over my conscience. Idiot.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Lynx

[rootbear75]

I still think having a bot read stock quotes is better

 

however since there is all risk and no way to control it.... it'd have to be a built in HS thing

[spidernl]

You do need to spend that much money to get a 50K loan, just like it costs 10 fold the amount to build a final ship, as you have to run through numerous upgrades before you can get the best equipment.

 

Now to dissect your whole (shockingly dumb) 'can you not just hold onto that 50k instead? It's much cheaper, as you don't even have to pay back that 50k' comment and logic. If things were as simple as that, what IS the point in a bot that gives out loans? Why would anybody EVER need a loan, if they could just hold onto the money and spend it later? I mean, seriously?

 

Lol, you really did miss the point. There indeed is no point to not just holding onto the money with your bot concept, you got that right mr. Obvious. Now, please think about what I said before. Loans in HS are usually because a player really wants some item or setup really, really badly (Or just feels like scamming, which is a different story). They loan a semi-large amount and DON'T want to first take tiny loans for months before they can take such a loan.

 

In short: they want to loan money that they don't have yet, not loan back money they paid the bot earlier.

And don't start about scammability, my bot concept was partly manual, remember.

[»Lynx]

Firstly, it doesn't take months to make that kind of money playing HS. I managed to get over 150K in a matter of hours, without basing, so the frivolous 'it takes months' comment was just you fapping.

 

Secondly, any loan system requires interest. That is a variable that you're free to choose, but seeing as Hyperspace is full of people that hate each other, if you want to go with a system that can be easily crippled - that's your (dumb) choice. As I've said multiple times (hence why you're missing the point) any interest/credit value etcetera can be adjusted based on risk. The system I proposed was merely risk free (as per your request in the first place).

 

Thirdly, the whole reason we're having this discussion, is because you wanted to eliminate the chance you can get scammed. So, yeah - we should talk about 'scammability'. Your system is based on your judgement of a person you've never fucking met, who plays a 2D spaceship game, which revolves around making money - and said person stands ZERO risk if s/he doesn't pay you back, and the staff will NOT help you. If you think that's a bright idea, then you're clearly not the brightest crayon in the pack.

 

And finally, I am really growing tired of rebutting your poorly written, illogical posts. You're clearly: 1) a douche, for making a big thing out of nothing; when this started with somebody trying to help you, which leads you to also being 2) a prick and 3) a waste of my time.

 

So to summarize:

 

1) My system is 100% automated.

2) It requires next to nothing to start, and maintain.

3) If it gets scammed, it's not a big deal.

4) Would be completely open.

5) Would be a beneficial service.

 

However your system is:

 

1) Just you hacking together some basic Java bot that does nothing but message you when somebody wants a loan.

2) Is nothing like a bank.

3) Requires a LOT of your money to be useful and/or maintain.

4) If you get scammed, you cry like a bitch and system goes bye-bye.

5) Is about as trustworthy are you are.

6) Is beneficial only to the people you like...

 

Now stop your jibber-jabber.

[»Xog]

lol, lynx said fapping..

 

 

fap fap fap

[spidernl]

Firstly, it doesn't take months to make that kind of money playing HS. I managed to get over 150K in a matter of hours, without basing, so the frivolous 'it takes months' comment was just you fapping.

 

Secondly, any loan system requires interest. That is a variable that you're free to choose, but seeing as Hyperspace is full of people that hate each other, if you want to go with a system that can be easily crippled - that's your (dumb) choice. As I've said multiple times (hence why you're missing the point) any interest/credit value etcetera can be adjusted based on risk. The system I proposed was merely risk free (as per your request in the first place).

 

Thirdly, the whole reason we're having this discussion, is because you wanted to eliminate the chance you can get scammed. So, yeah - we should talk about 'scammability'. Your system is based on your judgement of a person you've never fucking met, who plays a 2D spaceship game, which revolves around making money - and said person stands ZERO risk if s/he doesn't pay you back, and the staff will NOT help you. If you think that's a bright idea, then you're clearly not the brightest crayon in the pack.

 

And finally, I am really growing tired of rebutting your poorly written, illogical posts. You're clearly: 1) a douche, for making a big thing out of nothing; when this started with somebody trying to help you, which leads you to also being 2) a prick and 3) a waste of my time.

 

So to summarize:

 

1) My system is 100% automated.

2) It requires next to nothing to start, and maintain.

3) If it gets scammed, it's not a big deal.

4) Would be completely open.

5) Would be a beneficial service.

 

However your system is:

 

1) Just you hacking together some basic Java bot that does nothing but message you when somebody wants a loan.

2) Is nothing like a bank.

3) Requires a LOT of your money to be useful and/or maintain.

4) If you get scammed, you cry like a bitch and system goes bye-bye.

5) Is about as trustworthy are you are.

6) Is beneficial only to the people you like...

 

Now stop your jibber-jabber.

 

No, I'll be nice and reply to your post. Funny thing is you keep insulting me, and claim my posts are unproductive, while you're the one just saying "What you are saying is false because you are retarded".

Now, let's constructively reply to your post, unlike your replies to mine, eh? <_<

 

About your system:

1) Correct, and I wish I could use a 100% automated system.

 

2) That's correct too, yay for you.

 

3) Correction: It can't even get scammed (realistically), as it makes more than it gives out over time. And $100 is generally not considered a scam in HS, just put in a 1000 exp or so check so fools can't go and continuously make new accounts. So you got that right too.

 

4) About as open as you decide to make it, yes, but you could just hide money stats and keep it working too, if necessary. Another correct point on your side.

 

5) Now that is where you are wrong. There is nothing beneficial about being able to put money into a bot and, over time, take a smaller amount of money out. And no, stop saying this isn't what the bot does, because looking at it over time that's all it does. You put in money, and take a part of what you put in out later. And the money "put in" I'm talking about here is the interest paid over loans, which always is above the money you take out to make it unscammable.

 

 

About my system

1) Minus the parts that I'm hardly hacking it together - It's running on a fine bot core - and the fact that I have already told you of its other features before, which you probably ignored. So let me repeat: The bot will hold money for players, allow them to use one bank account for multiple HS accounts (Thus move money more easily) using a password system (if you want to, you can also just link it to your account and not use a password), pay interest to every player who has money on the bot whenever the bot profits from a loan, allow players to lock their money for up to 365 days if they think they'll spend it while they're trying to save, etc.

 

2) It isn't entirely like a bank, no, but I have yet to see a real-life bank that only allows a 100K loan if you put in 10-20 smaller loans that give them massive profit beforehand. Oh, and I know you'll reply about never seeing a bank in real-life that takes all the risk itself and lets the person taking a loan take 0% risk. I know, I know. Don't bother saying that.

 

3) I can get that money, don't worry mate

 

4) Which is why the system is manual. I am not going to give every random fool a massive loan right off the bat. Let 'em prove their trustworthiness with smaller ones first. They don't want smaller ones? Not my problem.

 

5) I'm quite trustworthy, whether you like that fact or not. I have paid most if not every sum of money I 'owed' people so far. Why would that change?

 

6) That's not really correct, but I do see what you mean. A better way to put it would be to say it's only beneficial to players I trust. There are quite a few people who I don't really like, but who will pay back money they owe to someone (or, in the bank's case, something).

Edited February 15, 2010 by spidernl

[BZAP]

The only scam-proof loan is no loan at all. Lynx's concept has little to offer for players simply because it will not take a beyond-$100 risk. The concept is sound in theory (if it helps, imagine the same system beginning with a $100,000 loan). The problem is that 100HSD does not hold much value. Nor is is a practical investment to push one's credit line to a worthwhile number.

 

I think the question at hand is how to build a practical bank--which I do not see as feasible. Given the hostility of the lending environment, an automated, high-loan system is out of the question. Moreover, HSD is easy to acquire and possesses no investment value. Spider's manual "system" only introduces subjectivity: someone picks who gets the loan, how much is loaned, and what the interest rate is. At this point, I think you are simply complicating things by introducing a bot. Stick with ?give

Edited February 15, 2010 by BZAP