Alien Tech vs Signature Items

[everdream]

As this reset goes further along, many players are accummulating the funds and XP for Alien Techs. This of course brings about the issue of zone balance as Alien Techs are currently the most desirable items in the zone.

 

With Alien Techs, the overall balance of the zone is completely thrown off as you have only 3 choices to be competitive (assuming players of equal skill). Who wants to play in a zone where everyone needs to have a 3 Mil item to level the playing field?

 

Of course, the solution at this point has been to 'Nerf Alien Techs'. Which I hear has happened several times already. I wouldn't know, I haven't played here that long. Although, I did finally save up for an Alien Tech and they were just as overpowered as everyone said they were. Which lead me to lose interest in the zone for the time being.

 

Back on topic though, Alien Techs are not the problem. The problem is the fact that they're at the top of the 'Item Chain'. They need some kind of equivalent so you don't have to 'Buy Alien Tech or die'.

 

Bottom line, a 3Mil Item should be better than a 60k Sig Item so nerfing Alien Techs only defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. So how about making a 3Mil Item comparable to 2 Sigs? This preserves the uniqueness of Alien Techs while giving players many options to stay on a level playing field.

 

So there you have it, players have the choice between 2 Signatures or 1 Alien Tech. Alien Techs would be Non Signature and could not be bought with Signature Items.

 

(Alien Techs may need a slight buff or adjustment, but that's for another Topic)

 

 

 

 

 

Currently, the progression in the zone follows this formula:

 

 

Standard Items -> Signature Items -> Alien Tech.

 

-Leads to a big imbalance in the end game. A single Sig will never be comparable to an Alien Tech when 2 players of equal skill compete. Also less active players currently have no chance against a skilled player with a Temp Core as of now.

 

 

 

 

My suggestion for resolving the current dilemma is to follow this formula:

 

 

Standard Items -> 2 Signatures or 1 Alien Tech.

 

- More Balanced as less active players still have a chance to compete against Alien Tech users. The end game is balanced and the zone benefits from more variety in ship builds.

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think? Comments or suggestions appreciated.

Edited January 19, 2010 by everdream

[Unix]

It could work, and it'd probably allow more customization of ships as a whole if you can get two sigs. It'd also make other items like Oracle worthwhile in getting.

[everdream]

Yes, the other topic about boosting/nerfing items is what made me think about Alien Techs and Sigs in the first place. The fact that people are having an issue with Alien Techs in league show just how imbalanced they are. I thought this could bring more variety of ship builds to the zone by increasing the sig slots (which has been suggested before), but for the purpose of balancing Alien Techs users with Non Alien Tech users.

[Dr Brain]

It's an interesting thought, but isn't feasible any time soon because it'll require a complete overhaul of all the sigs and alien techs. Sigs are very difficult to balance when you can have only one; balancing it for two would be even more so.

[BZAP]

I really don't mind ATs as they are, but if you must remove them, I would suggest limiting ATs to large ships only. Come to think of it, I've always found it odd that players were limited from "big ship" items (ZPM, Mezon, ...) on a small ship, yet were able to install a superior AT version (Temporal). Anyway, limiting ATs to big ships only will ensure they don't appear in duel settings.

 

I like the idea of multiple sigs. In response to Brain's comment, I believe it can still be done without a total overhaul. As an idea, HS can introduce a line of "half" signature items--components that offer slight advantages over standard stuff but allow pairing with other "partial" signatures. These new sigs don't have to be designed from scratch. You can simply offer a slightly boosted version of the standard item (a retro rocket plus, for example).

[everdream]

Just from theorizing, since I can't be sure how balanced it would be without trying it in-game... I find the numbers of 2 Sigs to be fairly equal to 1 Alien Tech.

 

 

 

For example:

 

Temp Core: 7 energy 8 recharge = roughly 1 Naquadah Gen. + System Optimizer + Oracle System: 6 energy 6 recharge along with the bonuses System Op and Oracle bring... They're quite comparable.

 

Baryon Injector stats are fairly close to 1 Omega + System Optimizer. Baryon could probably use slight adjustment.

 

Adamantine could maybe use some adjustment, but somewhat equal to Solid Nutronium + (insert sig here)

 

 

 

 

The standard sigs are very well balanced for the most part. The Alien Techs could use some small adjustment.

Edited January 20, 2010 by everdream

[BZAP]

Just from theorizing, since I can't be sure how balanced it would be without trying it in-game... I find the numbers of 2 Sigs to be fairly equal to 1 Alien Tech.

 

 

 

For example:

 

Temp Core: 7 energy 8 recharge = roughly 1 Naquadah Gen. + System Optimizer + Oracle System: 6 energy 6 recharge along with the bonuses System Op and Oracle Bring... They're quite comparable.

 

Baryon Injector stats are fairly close to 1 Omega + System Optimizer. Baryon could probably use slight adjustment.

 

Adamantine could maybe use some adjustment, but somewhat equal to Solid Nutronium + (insert sig here)

 

 

 

 

The standard sigs are very well balanced for the most part. The Alien Techs could use some small adjustment.

 

hi everdream. Long time no talk. I feel two signatures grants players too much power, especially in the gun/engine department. How would you escape a warbird with flash drive and mass driver

[everdream]

Just from theorizing, since I can't be sure how balanced it would be without trying it in-game... I find the numbers of 2 Sigs to be fairly equal to 1 Alien Tech.

 

 

 

For example:

 

Temp Core: 7 energy 8 recharge = roughly 1 Naquadah Gen. + System Optimizer + Oracle System: 6 energy 6 recharge along with the bonuses System Op and Oracle Bring... They're quite comparable.

 

Baryon Injector stats are fairly close to 1 Omega + System Optimizer. Baryon could probably use slight adjustment.

 

Adamantine could maybe use some adjustment, but somewhat equal to Solid Nutronium + (insert sig here)

 

 

 

 

The standard sigs are very well balanced for the most part. The Alien Techs could use some small adjustment.

 

hi everdream. Long time no talk. I feel two signatures grants players too much power, especially in the gun/engine department. How would you escape a warbird with flash drive and mass driver

 

 

 

Hello BZAP

 

Temp Core WB would have a Flash Drive/Mass WB beat in the energy/recharge department hands down. The Temp Core WB could also use Exoskeleton. Keep in mind, everyone would have a choice between their own 2 Signatures or 1 Alien Tech. You'd have plenty of options for beating just about any build you can think of. More choices, more balanced, more fun.

Edited January 20, 2010 by everdream

[everdream]

As of now there are currently 8 Slots from which to pick 1 Signature (Not including Alien Signatures). Even if it was increased to 2 Signatures the difference wouldn't be very much imo. If you choose Sigs from the Engine/Guns, someone else can pick Reactor/Guns, Addon/Bombs, or so on and so forth.

 

I'm only speculating since one can't know for sure without testing, but I don't see Standard Sigs being overpowered. I see them as bringing them in line with a player who can afford an Alien Tech.

Edited January 20, 2010 by everdream

[BZAP]

What I'm most worried about regarding dual signatures is how they'll impact the pace of gameplay. Fighters will be quicker and spammier. Basing will be as chaotic as ever. If you thought quad-rep AD weasels were annoying, imagine one with signature armor. In short, I think HS is fast-paced enough Edited January 20, 2010 by BZAP

[kid]

The reasoning is just flat wrong.

 

 

Flash Drive / Sharppinger warbird?

[everdream]

I see what you're saying. As annoying as a Quad rep weasel with solid nut would be, I'd imagine players would adapt by making their own or perhaps they'll have other options with the additional Signature. That's pretty much how basing works in this zone anyway... When another team sends in their Quad rep weasel/lanc. You send your own to counter theirs.

 

I suppose we're arguing both sides of the same coin here. I can't say for sure how it would affect gameplay without testing in-game.

[Dr Brain]

While two sigs may be comparable to one alien tech, your original complaint was that alien techs are overpowered.

[everdream]

I wasn't complaining really. More of an observation, and an attempt to offer constructive criticism to improve the zone, as I did enjoy very much playing here. I've only read that there have been some issues with Alien Techs from the league forum and such and I wanted to help find a solution for it. Edited January 20, 2010 by everdream

[vetta64]

I dont think there is an imbalance in the items, sure some items are junk but the issue is the imbalance in cost.

 

3 mil items are better but to they really need to cost 50 times more than a normal sig in order for the item list to make sense.

 

I think the half off sale was a good idea maybe adding some more powerful sigs that cost less. Something half way between mezon and temp but costs 1 mil or so. more variety and less statification.

[Dr. Snyder]

I cannot imagine selecting 1 alien over 2 sigs, as there are definately sigs that have insane synergy with other sigs like those that have been mentioned. However making aliens only available on larger ships are a good way to create balance. After all an 3m item on a basing levi/spider/lanc is not going to be much more valuable than a good AD rushing ship without a 3m, if it is even more valuable.

 

Plus this would deal with the whole 3m wb/jav issue, because a 3m item on those two ships are definately more of a game changer.

[everdream]

@ Dr. Snyder

I suppose you have a good point there. From a basing stand point, it really wouldn't be good to pick 1 Alien over 2 Sigs because of AD, although I think that just speaks volumes about how broken Anti-death is. Nobody picks 1 3Mil Alien Tech over a 1 60k Sig + Anti-Death as it is right now for basing (it's almost pointless rushing without AD).

 

I was thinking more along the lines of how it affects ship balance from a ?shipstatus point of view. Instead of having Alien Techs as a 'novelty item' it could be brought more in line with the other items in the game. 2 Signatures are comparable to 1 Alien Tech from a ?shipstatus standpoint as energy/recharge and other stats are more or less equal.

 

@ Vegetta64

If 2 Sigs were brought into play making non Alien Tech users balanced with Alien Tech users I would have to agree that the cost of Alien Techs should be cut in half to 1.5 Mil. I disagree with Alien Techs being balanced with 1 Signature ships. The energy and recharge bonus alone makes it quite obvious that nothing even comes close to something like a Temporal Core.

[Kilo]

Guys

 

don't talk about how to balance 3M items

it will not happen, it is not meant to happen, it was never meant to happen: these items are meant to break the game

raising the price might happen but that is not "balancing" anything, price is never a balancer in any way shape or form in any game unless you have limited funds, money grows on trees here

the whole point of these items was that they were something to shoot for because let's face it it's really really easy to get amounts of money under 7 digits in this game

 

don't talk about the possibility of 2 signatures per ship

it will not happen, it is not meant to happen, it was never meant to happen: these items are meant to be mutually exclusive

the idea of a signature item is that you have ONE of them, it's really that simple--the rest of your ship is defined by combinations of items but the signature is a standout

the whole point of these items is that you can't have the best of everything on your ship, multiple sigs defeats the purpose of this

 

there did I drill it in enough

[everdream]

Guys

 

don't talk about how to balance 3M items

 

it will not happen, it is not meant to happen, it was never meant to happen: these items are meant to break the game

 

there did I drill it in enough

 

 

Gotcha.

Edited January 22, 2010 by everdream

[Kilo]

that said if one of the 3Ms is significantly better than the others you probably won't see it that good forever