SSC Access

[»freakmonger]

Ghost is reachable in game or e-mail, thats not the problem.

[PoLiX]

Ghost is easy to get ahold of. I talk to him daily sometimes.

 

He is mostly busy with starting a new job, and traveling. Will be MIA for a few weeks at a time too, so I'll be left in charge of all you misfits. Think I'll need psychiatric help after that.

[L.C.]

Ghost I know hasn't heard from him since spring?

I don't know. When I began hosting Trench Wars (DEV), RiiStar and I inquired about its SSC access and Prii had relayed a message saying it doesn't need SSC because it is a DEV zone. Edited November 26, 2009 by L.C.

[PoLiX]

whoever told you that was priit was wrong and/or lying to cover.

[Kilo]

Actually, that sounds exactly like the kind of thing PriitK would say (has said.)

[PoLiX]

Yes, he has. But in this case, I know who it was.

[»jabjabjab]

lol who was it? bet it was pure... and if it is i would not be shocked.

[LiDDiS]

At this point in SS's life they should really just open the biller up to anyone who wants to bother making a zone..

[Samapico]

At this point in SS's life they should really just open the biller up to anyone who wants to bother making a zone..

Only issue with that is security. It would be very easy to steal passwords. It would be BAD. It's not just the password for an alias, some people use the same password for their emails and a bunch of things.

 

The current system is not much safer, since it only relies on trusting the hosts. It's a lazy way to "fix" the problem. This issue would be (from what I hear) pretty easy to fix, but you'd still have to update/replace the whole biller, fix subgame/move everything to ASSS, and update the client.

[L.C.]

At this point in SS's life they should really just open the biller up to anyone who wants to bother making a zone..

Only issue with that is security. It would be very easy to steal passwords. It would be BAD. It's not just the password for an alias, some people use the same password for their emails and a bunch of things.

 

The current system is not much safer, since it only relies on trusting the hosts. It's a lazy way to "fix" the problem. This issue would be (from what I hear) pretty easy to fix, but you'd still have to update/replace the whole biller, fix subgame/move everything to ASSS, and update the client.

Isn't this where Isometry would have succeeded?

[Chambahs]

Yep.

[PoLiX]

it or the other 2 billers that we're being worked on. The issue was, client and server modifications are needed for everything to work properly.

[L.C.]

The issue was, client and server modifications are needed for everything to work properly.

Snrrrub succeeded very well in this part.

[PoLiX]

Yes and no.

 

See, the issue is this.

 

Most the sysops who post here (no offense) represent mostly dead zones. Not all, but a lot.

 

The major SSC Zones, who are the ones that nothing happens if they don't budge, weren't down to accept a hacked client. They we're up for a new client, and looking into moving to asss (most began working on it, and some still are), but the idea of a hacked client didn't sit well with any of them.

 

If they don't do it for their zone, any efforts are pointless as 4 zones hold 2/3 of the ss population.

 

There was support from many for a new biller that we could control. Put up central scores site again, easier to manage information, easier to add dev zones, etc. They we're all for it. But 2/3 requirements to do this won't work, so again dead efforts.

 

I'm not, nor are other ops, trying to knock everyone down. Ghost is VERY open to new ideas, as most the ssc sysops are. Its just these plans/efforts can't be half assed, as we've gone through that before, and seen bad outcomes.

 

--------------

 

Back on topic... SSC Access really doesn't help a zone nor lacking it hinder it. Look at Fusion... they started out non-ssc, but had a lot of dedicated staff, so it worked. But SSC is a lot more lax than it use to be years ago.

[L.C.]

Did you personally ask Sharvil for his story?

EDIT: I apologize for going off topic, and perhaps I should not even be pushing in this direction. If he wishes to speak for himself here, he has right to do so.

Edited November 28, 2009 by L.C.

[PoLiX]

Why ask him, I was there throughout all of it...

 

And yeah, this topic went off long ago though.

[L.C.]

Well, I think the only thing that we can do as a community is simply live and continue to bring in fresh blood.

[Samapico]

Most the sysops who post here (no offense) represent mostly dead zones. Not all, but a lot.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I think this topic is interesting

 

Sooooo, let me guess... 4 zones... 2/3 population... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

But the end-user would never have to know it's a "hacked" client... just pass it off as 0.40b or something, keep the whole thing "secret" in the "elite" part of the community, and just don't post the information about this to the public.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

oh crap.

[Hakaku]

Most the sysops who post here (no offense) represent mostly dead zones. Not all, but a lot.

That's a poor excuse, you're almost assuming that all these sysops were in favour to switching billers.

 

For that matter, your logic is flawed. The point of making a bridged layer was so that any zone would be able to connect without having to wait around and going through Priit, and possibly eventually act as a medium to deprecate the current biller. You can't even realistically expect zones like Trench Wars to be the first ones to switch, especially if you've barely tested and debugged such a biller. Not only that, but you weren't actually providing these zones with a better product, you were just trying to instill them that it was more feature bloated without actually showing anyone any results. To also note, you left the bridged biller development in the hands of one person, who as I already told you from the start, was going to leave anyways; basically a parallel to repeating history.

 

The arguments here are really going back in circles with the previous thread. You should never have to need everyone to forceably agree to switch, for the same reason that not all zones need ASSS for their purposes, and we shouldn't be cut-dry and shoving it down their throats unless they're willing. That, however, should be no reason to give up on matters.

[PoLiX]

Again, you only know what you hear.

 

Snrrrub's plan was to slowly move off the biller, yes. Some SSC sysops were willing to just drop it and start over as long as they had time for their staff to register their aliases. Others didn't want either. Noone ever said Snrrrub's Isometry was the only biller being developed. That is why he got mad also. Ghost didn't want to use his unless someone else or himself had the source. There was 1 person who ghost had asked to make a new biller, and another who just began working on one and offered it.

 

Noone was forced to switch to ASSS. Actually EG has been wanting to switch since grel 1st released it, they we're just waiting for a stable version. But now The Junky has become somewhat inactive/less developing, so dunno if they'll ever make the switch. He was involved in the whole idea of everything, and was one of the ones asking a lot of questions and for more info on the subgame<->asss protocol. Trench Wars and Chaos started a majority of their work after all of this, yes, but continue regardless. They too had wanted to do it, but didn't feel confident enough, and snrrrub helped with that. And now we see DSB jumping on the bandwagon wanting to get into it all and see what is there too. Take the fact the other 2 most populous zones (Hyperspace and Hockey Zone) are already on ASSS, noone was being forced into it. It was more of a want, and a desire (especially TW for its events) and everything going on gave them the confidence to try.

 

You guys have really only heard the story from the little I have posted here, and snrrrub. So I understand if you think he was the only plan, but he was not. There we're other ideas, he was just the most gunho and verbal about it.

[Hakaku]

No you misread. I never said anyone had to switch to ASSS. In fact, I actually discourage the new ASSS billing protocol, but that's really aside the point. I said that in the same way Grelminar didn't come around expecting every single zone owner of SubSpace to switch to his server, you shouldn't expect every zone owner to adopt your biller. You should be following ASSS as a model, and allow people to decide whether or not they want to switch. ASSS didn't start with Hyperspace nor Hockey Zone, it started with mere development zones. Eventually people started adopting it for small zones, which has over time attracted more fledged out zones based on the results of the pioneers of this server. Most people prefer seeing a result and contributing ideas for improvements before jumping into something they know nothing about.

 

And I never stated Snrrrub was the only person developing a biller. But I did state that you left the biller development in the hands of one person. The fact that there was 1, 2, or even 8 different projects going on is of no importance to me. But each of them were developped by one person, and given up upon by that same person. The first example of this, before the new biller campaign restarted, was CypherJF's biller. Snrrrub was, in the end, the only person who actually presented a somewhat finished project, but he ended up disappearing like the rest of em. I don't care for what reason, but the problem with all of these projects was that they were kept closed source, which in terms of SubSpace, spells unmaintainable disaster.

 

Anyhow, you can keep stating that I only know what I hear, but you shouldn't dismiss my arguments simply because I disagree with you and your interpretation on matters. I'm not actually as blind about things as you like to make yourself believe.

[Sketter]

For L.C.'s sake, i'll get involved. ( )

 

(Now in the back of my head i'm sure this has been thought of, and discussed somewhere, but perhaps for recapping purposes )

 

We can already have continuum connect to a zone via proxy configurations.

 

If GS can add slots on the ssc biller, and the only issue is getting passed the firewall, would it not be sensible to create a proxy program that sits on an approved SSC host?

Not a biller to biller connection (some one has mentioned that, don't ask why) but a new smart proxy program.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but it sounds like it would be simple to get around an IP block. When running this in my head, all you really are doing is having the ssc biller think all these zones are coming from 1 IP address.

 

Please (even if you plan to shoot this down) i would appreciate great details on comments/replies.

 

 

Thank you.

[Confess]

On a side note, I do have access to a protocal that allows you to redirect Non-SSC allowed zones to the SSC Biller...It acts as a relay server. I used it for my old server when it was taking forever for Priit to add it. Its a very simply program, and could be advanced upon.

 

In other words, put this program on your server - then, you can add other servers to be allowed to proxy through yours to SSC. Only thing is, it does not pass the SSC encryption, so the not connected to SSC msg appears.

 

I believe Dr. Brain developed it with my help, I dont remember..it was a long time ago.

[L.C.]

We can already have continuum connect to a zone via proxy configurations.

Off topic, but I have always wondered how one could go about actually utilizing this feature in Continuum. :?

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but it sounds like it would be simple to get around an IP block. When running this in my head, all you really are doing is having the ssc biller think all these zones are coming from 1 IP address.

This idea of a proxy billing program reminds me of wireless access point/bridge/router devices. I think what Sketter is saying, in case someone does not understand, is that the SSC authorized server hosting the proxy program would act as if it is the machine hosting all the zones that are routing through its proxy program.

 

Not a bad idea. Curious to know what others think...

 

EDIT:

The port might be a bigger problem than the IP, I think. You couldn't send all the zones' info on the same port, the biller wouldn't be able to differentiate them. (Or something like that)

I would imagine though that the proxy program would recycle the incoming port from the zone and send the information back to SSC using that port the zone did. If it works like this, then there would not be any port conflicts.

 

The proxy program would just have to disallow duplicate incoming ports.

 

On a side note, I do have access to a protocal that allows you to redirect Non-SSC allowed zones to the SSC Biller...It acts as a relay server. I used it for my old server when it was taking forever for Priit to add it. Its a very simply program, and could be advanced upon.

 

In other words, put this program on your server - then, you can add other servers to be allowed to proxy through yours to SSC. Only thing is, it does not pass the SSC encryption, so the not connected to SSC msg appears.

 

I believe Dr. Brain developed it with my help, I dont remember..it was a long time ago.

Hmm, interesting.. Edited November 28, 2009 by L.C.

[Confess]

Sketter, already been thought of and done. As I said, it simply keeps the "non-ssc" message, which can be fixed. Death+ was the first one to think of the idea/create it (Unless he had someone else make it for him, which is very possible), and then I wanted the same ability to do so, so I asked Dr. Brain to create me a program - this allowed him to give Hyperspace access when SSL was being added to the SSC Biller but Priit took too long.

 

The problem is, it is not for the decision of a host to give another host access to SSC unless someone like Ghost says it is okay to give it to them. Its a moral issue.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Confess