More help for Discretion

[TurboSlug22]

Hey guys,

 

I just wanted to toss a small amount of motivation / positive energy on the project...

 

One of DSB's most talented programmers (not generally a very excitable person) was blown away when I told him about the open source SS client projects and he has pledged that if Discretion is 'completed' that he will write a bot API that learns and adapts. He said he has been wishing that this was possible for years and it looks like youve made his dream begin to come true.

 

I am also spearheading an initiative to get the word out around the community about the open source projects we're working on and why even an incomplete open source client is more valuable than a completed closed source one.

 

I am also energizing some of our programmers to become passionate enough about these projects to contribute themselves. We are all very very excited about bringing this community into full control of its software thereby opening many doors for our future.

 

I hope to be able to sit down with Bak shortly and discuss the health of the project.

 

A couple questions while im here though:

 

What is the difference between discretion and ss2?

 

Why wasnt it called OpenSpace?

[»doc flabby]

What is the difference between discretion and ss2?

As the main developer for ss2, The way I see it:

 

Discretion is a "drop in" replacement client for Continuum.

(2D raster graphics, It extends and builds on the existing game)

 

ss2 is a new game, so incompatable with exisiting subspace stuff

(3D Engine, its all new, new gameplay etc)

[TurboSlug22]

ss2 is a new game, so incompatable with exisiting subspace stuff

(3D Engine, its all new, new gameplay etc)

 

OoOoOoO

 

I know it would triple your workload but Id just like to state the obvious and say that I think that it would be ideal to offer support for legacy SS zones as well but... yea ...

 

Still, great project!

Edited November 18, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»jabjabjab]

not rly bout passion issues, its about avaliability

[TurboSlug22]

not rly bout passion issues, its about avaliability

 

Well, I think I might be able to help you there.. See, you all know of DSB as the zone that doesnt innovate. Its not because we dont have qualified programmers or motivated & available staff. Its because we have some kind of bizzarre arrangement where the people who have server access to post our dev work simply arnt around to do it. It seems that for whatever reason, this has always been the case.

 

For the longest time we had people in charge who dont know much about how to play the game or what 'good balanced settings' are. These are people who were handed the Key to dsb and told "Take good care of her, we have a nice balance of settings here, DONT TOUCH ANYTHING". This policy might have worked fine in 2000 when our zone was still somewhat on par with others but.. now that its 2009.....

 

So on principal, they'd refused to do anything and refused to think of what the advantages/disadvantages are (if any) of a proposal.

 

These days, things are better, I am able to get buyin from most of our (non sysop) staff and thats usually enough to get good ideas though. But please consider how this kind of dynamic can affect people... We have devs who have a all this pent up energy and creativity waiting to go... Most of the time, theyre not even near burnout because they're constantly in this state of mind that they couldnt dev if they wanted to.

 

Long story short, our guys are just itching to contribute to this community. So far, the first dev I approached (Greenish) said he'd be more than happy to help on open source SS projects.

 

I think our guys would be best helpful by assisting with the production of the ASSS plugins that we still require to make our zone function as it did with sg2. Though we do have some guys who are very interested in the Discretion project too.

 

Anyway, I've yet to approach our other devs, but I suspect you'll be impressed by our guys when I'm able instil within them the understanding that without AS3, we're not going anywhere but backwards as a community.

Edited November 19, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Samapico]

Don't you guys have a dev sysop or something?

[»jabjabjab]

**COUGH** TW needs one /**COUGH**

[TurboSlug22]

Don't you guys have a dev sysop or something?

 

Nooo... :\

[TurboSlug22]

**COUGH** TW needs one /**COUGH**

 

Its not just dsb that needs to convert to as3 and discretion to be attractive to steam, our whole community needs to be under our own power before we're going to attract the attention of anyone that wants to do real business with us.

 

That means, this push is a community wide effort.

 

I will be coordinating between zones that in all of my years here, i have never logged into. I will be offering up our capability and experience to ensure that everyone understands the value of as3 and has enough support from us and the community to set it up for their zone.

 

As3 is the future and we need to step into it ASAP.

 

Without full control over our software, we're nothing but a slowly sinking ship.

[»jabjabjab]

IMO asss is not needed. It's just client

[Bak]

Hello yes, great! I'm glad people are excited about Discretion. Next week I get thanksgiving break and I get to work on finishing up the anti-cheat stuff, which would certainly be a big milestone. Plus it may be nice to work on coding in C/C++ for a little while after all the hardware coding I've been doing for work lately.

 

Honestly, my only constraint is time, although I do like the project a lot.

 

I do like DSB; I even wrote a bot for you guys (turf flag race bot with top times per map and global points system). It was part of my unfinished plan to get high-level connections in major zones ha. Anyways, who are these DSB programmers? Do they know C/C++? If they want to help out there's a great Discretion development tutorial with videos I made a few years back ( http://wiki.minegoboom.com/index.php/Discretion_Module_Tutorial ).

 

Why wasnt it called OpenSpace?

What's wrong with Discretion? It may or may not be a failed pun on 'Continuum', although that should be Discretization, which just isn't as sexy as Discretion.

[TurboSlug22]

Why wasnt it called OpenSpace?

What's wrong with Discretion? It may or may not be a failed pun on 'Continuum', although that should be Discretization, which just isn't as sexy as Discretion.

 

0_o ??

 

lol - Anyway, I'll talk to my guys this weekend and see where we're all at. You know, most of us haddnt heard of discretion before last weekend, so I think I'm going to take a tour of the community this weekend and get the word out, see if I can find some extra people to devote to your cause. C++ Coders you need? C++ Coders you shall get.

 

In my perspective, AS3 and Discretion are the future of this community. The sooner we step into the future the more options are going to be made available to us. We'll be able to negotiate on our own behalf with large companies. We'll be able to add great new content to our games and most importantly, we'll be free of the sleeping dragon!

 

Meet me in the SS dev chat channel

Edited November 28, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[L.C.]

Turbo, I seriously cannot agree with "AS3" being the future. You can't make something the future if it isn't designed correctly from the inside. If you want to convert ALL Subgame2 users over to AS3, tough luck, that won't happen. You can't redesign a structure from the outside in -- better to just start from scratch than waste time.

 

/creates own thread

[TurboSlug22]

Turbo, I seriously cannot agree with "AS3" being the future. You can't make something the future if it isn't designed correctly from the inside. If you want to convert ALL Subgame2 users over to AS3, tough luck, that won't happen. You can't redesign a structure from the outside in -- better to just start from scratch than waste time.

 

/creates own thread

 

I think its the future for this community, not the present. It needs development modules that ease the interface for new users so they can build content too... But way before that, it needs to be finished.

 

At present the mood in dsb has reverted to "as3 is interesting but we dont need it"

 

The real reason why its good though is because its open source. Hopefully we'll be able to contribute to its development and then when its ready we can impliment it.

Edited November 20, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Samapico]

I know a way to force people to change to ASSS...

 

 

Make a new twister-like hack that can only be fixed by the server

[»jabjabjab]

with the statistics from the previous twister issue, 80% loss of 600 people playing would bring the demise of this game.

[Bak]

Make a new twister-like hack that can only be fixed by the server

Hmm maybe not twister-like, but I may or may not have two "hacks" due to nontrivial design flaws. I don't think I'm quite evil enough to release them to force people to switch to Discretion, though.

[Samapico]

Switching people over Discretion should be easy when it's equally stable and has the same features as Continuum, it's switching old zones to ASSS that might be harder

[L.C.]

Well I suppose if ASSS were polished and packaged in such a way where they could literally just copy and paste everything except server.ini (minor work needed on their end), I think it might not necessarily be too hard to convince them to switch over. Subgame2 should be an alternative to ASSS for Discretion (an ancient support).

 

I can't wait for the day when Discretion matches Continuum and exceeds it.

[Samapico]

I can't wait for the day when Discretion matches Continuum and exceeds it.

Then we shall feast and drink 'til the morning sun

[TurboSlug22]

with the statistics from the previous twister issue, 80% loss of 600 people playing would bring the demise of this game.

 

100% agree - this is not the way to go

 

I can't wait for the day when Discretion matches Continuum and exceeds it.

Then we shall feast and drink 'til the morning sun

 

Yea we're working on a great idea for asss - ill post it in the other forum.. but it nips one of asss's biggest criticisms in the ass

 

lol...

 

Check out the as3 page in these forums

[Hoch]

Let me quickly interject here and point out that TurboSlug22, aka Preacher22 does

not represent any view in DSB nor does he operate in any official capacity. As a

matter of fact, he is no longer a member of ANY Staff in DSB (yet again), I having

just terminated his services.

 

Sorry for the interruption.

 

Cheers,

 

-Hoch

[»Xog]

Let me quickly interject here and point out that TurboSlug22, aka Preacher22 does

not represent any view in DSB nor does he operate in any official capacity. As a

matter of fact, he is no longer a member of ANY Staff in DSB (yet again), I having

just terminated his services.

 

Sorry for the interruption.

 

Cheers,

 

-Hoch

 

HOLY SHIT

 

 

LOOOOOOOOL

Edited November 24, 2009 by Xog

[Samapico]

Let me quickly interject here and point out that TurboSlug22, aka Preacher22 does

not represent any view in DSB nor does he operate in any official capacity. As a

matter of fact, he is no longer a member of ANY Staff in DSB (yet again), I having

just terminated his services.

 

Sorry for the interruption.

 

Cheers,

 

-Hoch

LOL

 

Is ASSS like the antichrist in DSB?

 

(it probably doesn't have to do with this, though )

[TurboSlug22]

Let me quickly interject here and point out that TurboSlug22, aka Preacher22 does

not represent any view in DSB nor does he operate in any official capacity. As a

matter of fact, he is no longer a member of ANY Staff in DSB (yet again), I having

just terminated his services.

 

Sorry for the interruption.

 

Cheers,

 

-Hoch

LOL

 

Is ASSS like the antichrist in DSB?

 

(it probably doesn't have to do with this, though )

 

Actually yes, that is what this is over. Its a complete misunderstanding too.

 

I was cautioned not to tell the truth on these forums but I think that sharing the truth is the best way to get good feedback. We're all one community here we all know whats going on to some extent. Its kind of a silly to pretend otherwise.

 

I was faulted for 'going behind peoples backs' to setup a test server for our zone, when all I'd done was ask for information and got a generous offer to host our test zone on a server free of charge. I passed it along in an email to ppl and left it at that. My intention was to gather consensus and it was my approach to addressing their own concerns that we didnt know enough about its performance to decide one way or another... so I SUGGESTED that we test it.

 

I was faulted for motivating staff to work on community projects (not dsb projects). A skilled player from TW asked me if he could help out - I thought it wouldnt be prudent to have him work for dsb so I motivated him to get interested in ASSS modules and how to build them. Additionally - our staff has to wait quite a long time for things to get posted, which makes bug testing a long ongoing process... I thought that in the meantime, they would have some extra energy to devote to the community.

 

I was hacked for a second time last weekend and while MIA rebuilding my network I'm accused of starting a rebellion by the very staff that I put myself at jeopardy to help.

 

All I've tried to do here is inject some life into this dying community by coordinating our own ideas. And I've earned myself a world of misunderstanding and spite from inactive people who dont give a fuck enough to pay attention and figure out what the best thing to do is.

 

This place is a child to me, I've poured my soul into it. Ive watched it grow and I've only ever wanted it to continue to be a fun place for people to spend some time.

 

but

 

YOU PEOPLE HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY - if you think that COORDINATING our own ideas is some kind of bad thing.

 

I suppose all of this would have been clear and free of misunderstandings to the people I've offended.. if they were around for me to be able to coordinate with. I mean, I pulled a 48 hr stretch online a couple weekends ago and posted all my ideas online and asked their representatives to communicate the discussions to those who are MIA. I dont know what more i can do. I've asked for meetings, I've asked them to read and reply to my posts...

 

Anyway, I cant operate in an environment where I'm not welcome by the person who is in charge so I've requested a netban - It kills me to do this, it truly does but I have no choice but to quit cold or i'll just come back and try to make shit better again and create all kinds of negative drama and pain for me.

 

To those who saw my vision - youve truly warmed my heart

 

To those who didnt... May you live in interesting times

Edited November 28, 2009 by TurboSlug22