A quick question about our ASSS

[TurboSlug22]

Hey guys,

 

DSB is looking to convert to ASSS (I know.. we're forever behind the times)

 

Just want to know if we can seamlessly transition our mervbot bots (i know i know) without having to configure them. Will they run without issues? The guys think so, but theyre not sure so our higher ups wont budge until we can confirm

 

Cheers,

 

EDIT: Just to emphasize, we dont mind overhauling ASSS - but our bots have to be 'as is'

 

EDIT2: this may be in the wrong discussion area - i just realized that.. sorry

Edited November 16, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Samapico]

You might have to configure the correct ?commands and *commands it uses, and make sure it has the correct permissions. Would be nice to have a default setup with subgame-like compatibility for commands.

 

If the bot uses some tricky commands that were subgame-specific, then you might have a problem. But I'm pretty sure an arena can be set up to understand things such as *lock, /*setship #, /*spec /*spec, *specall, /*warpto , etc.

[TurboSlug22]

You might have to configure the correct ?commands and *commands it uses, and make sure it has the correct permissions. Would be nice to have a default setup with subgame-like compatibility for commands.

 

If the bot uses some tricky commands that were subgame-specific, then you might have a problem. But I'm pretty sure an arena can be set up to understand things such as *lock, /*setship #, /*spec /*spec, *specall, /*warpto , etc.

 

Hm

 

This is helpful, but perhaps if you understood we do not have the source to many of our bots any longer... we would need our bots to be able to function with ASSS as is. Is ASSS configurable in such a way as to support such a situation?

 

EDIT: I just saw your update... sounds like this should be possible to do then?

Edited November 16, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[L.C.]

If you no longer have the source to the plugins, then here are the following things you can do:

 

* Program new ASSS modules that provide the functionality your bots provide

* Enable the VIE/Subgame commands module (no guarantees that it will cover everything)

* Do a total-conversion of ASSS' commands to use the traditional command names and formats

 

There might be some other solutions or workarounds that I have missed.

 

EDIT: To be honest, I personally don't think DSB should switch over to ASSS until ASSS is polished to where it complies with the original and traditional Commands.hlp and naming convention.

Edited November 16, 2009 by L.C.

[Hakaku]

It depends on what kind of tasks your bots are used for. When I switched Devastation over to ASSS, the transition was definitely not seamless, but that's mainly because there was literally no information on how to run bots properly on ASSS. I suggested changes for the next version that would greatly help newcomers, but alas, I doubt Dr Brain will implement any of them.

 

Depending on what your bot does, some problems include:

- Bot getting silenced (for spamming)

- Bot being unable to move lvz objects

- Bot being unable to *setfreq or *setship properly

- Bot being unable to use certain commands depending on what level you gave them

 

To start off with, I'd strongly advise removing any !say feature implemented in your bots. It basically grants whoever has access to that bot to exploit whatever level of powers it has.

 

I would then suggest creating an entirely separate group for bots, and place all the commands they're allowed to use in that file. To avoid spam limits, add 'unlimitedchat' to that file (e.g. groupdef.dir/bots). For lvz objects, you may need to add 'broadcastbot' or 'broadcastall'.

After you've done that, don't forget to add 'higher_than_bots' (replace 'bots' with whatever) into the sysop's file (groupdef.dir/sysop or groupdef.conf). This ensures that the sysop (and whoever else you add) will be able to ?kick the bot out at any time. Never sysop your bot.

 

Then, there is no true quickfix for either *setfreq or *setship. You either have to modify the bot plugins to send "?setfreq -f #" and "?setship -f #", or edit and recompile game.c to remove the -f tag and ignore the frequency manager.

I also noticed some issues with *scorereset on my bot, but never really bothered to debug the issue, so I can't tell you if this is something you should worry about or not.

 

Lastly, there might be commands that differ on Subgame and ASSS, such as *kill vs ?kick. You'll have to enable the module funky:sgcompat (in modules.conf) for compatibility with subgame commands, which I strongly recommend. You will also have to add these commands in the appropriate group files (e.g. conf/groupdef.dir/mod), since most of them are not included by default.

[TurboSlug22]

It depends on what kind of tasks your bots are used for. When I switched Devastation over to ASSS, the transition was definitely not seamless, but that's mainly because there was literally no information on how to run bots properly on ASSS. I suggested changes for the next version that would greatly help newcomers, but alas, I doubt Dr Brain will implement any of them.

 

Depending on what your bot does, some problems include:

- Bot getting silenced (for spamming)

- Bot being unable to move lvz objects

- Bot being unable to *setfreq or *setship properly

- Bot being unable to use certain commands depending on what level you gave them

 

To start off with, I'd strongly advise removing any !say feature implemented in your bots. It basically grants whoever has access to that bot to exploit whatever level of powers it has.

 

I would then suggest creating an entirely separate group for bots, and place all the commands they're allowed to use in that file. To avoid spam limits, add 'unlimitedchat' to that file (e.g. groupdef.dir/bots). For lvz objects, you may need to add 'broadcastbot' or 'broadcastall'.

After you've done that, don't forget to add 'higher_than_bots' (replace 'bots' with whatever) into the sysop's file (groupdef.dir/sysop or groupdef.conf). This ensures that the sysop (and whoever else you add) will be able to ?kick the bot out at any time. Never sysop your bot.

 

Then, there is no true quickfix for either *setfreq or *setship. You either have to modify the bot plugins to send "?setfreq -f #" and "?setship -f #", or edit and recompile game.c to remove the -f tag and ignore the frequency manager.

I also noticed some issues with *scorereset on my bot, but never really bothered to debug the issue, so I can't tell you if this is something you should worry about or not.

 

Lastly, there might be commands that differ on Subgame and ASSS, such as *kill vs ?kick. You'll have to enable the module sg_compat (in modules.conf) for compatibility with subgame commands, which I strongly recommend. You will also have to add these commands in the appropriate group files (e.g. conf/groupdef.dir/mod), since most of them are not included by default.

 

Wow thanks very much!

 

If you no longer have the source to the plugins, then here are the following things you can do:

 

* Program new ASSS modules that provide the functionality your bots provide

* Enable the VIE/Subgame commands module (no guarantees that it will cover everything)

* Do a total-conversion of ASSS' commands to use the traditional command names and formats

 

There might be some other solutions or workarounds that I have missed.

 

EDIT: To be honest, I personally don't think DSB should switch over to ASSS until ASSS is polished to where it complies with the original and traditional Commands.hlp and naming convention.

 

Yea its looking like holding off might be a good option - we dont mind doing a number on ASSS to get our mervbots working. We just cant adjust anything the bots do.

[Dr Brain]

Then, there is no true quickfix for either *setfreq or *setship. You either have to modify the bot plugins to send "?setfreq -f #" and "?setship -f #", or edit and recompile game.c to remove the -f tag and ignore the frequency manager.

 

That was addressed in 1.5.0rc1 by adding the "forceshipfreqchange" capability. http://bitbucket.org/grelminar/asss/issue/6/add-capability-for-automatically-including-f-for-setship-and

 

I suggested changes for the next version that would greatly help newcomers, but alas, I doubt Dr Brain will implement any of them.

 

What other suggestions for ASSS did you make that didn't make the cut?

 

@TurboSlug: your best bet is to set up a test zone, and just post questions whenever you run into difficulties making things work like you want/expect.

[TurboSlug22]

 

@TurboSlug: your best bet is to set up a test zone, and just post questions whenever you run into difficulties making things work like you want/expect.

 

Yup this was my suggestion to our team as well. Was just hoping for a heads up - but the trial by fire approach works too

 

By the way, thanks very much for your fine ASSS... Sorry I couldnt resist, but sincerely, its very much appreciated

Edited November 16, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Hakaku]

EDIT: To be honest, I personally don't think DSB should switch over to ASSS until ASSS is polished to where it complies with the original and traditional Commands.hlp and naming convention.

What naming convention? The likelihood of ASSS becoming Subgame is nil for reasons mentioned a bajillion times. Pretty much all the commands in Subgame are available through sg_compat, except for a select useless few such as *putnews. Though I shouldn't be too hasty in saying that, it might actually be in sg_compat.

 

Bots can run fine on ASSS, you just need to make a few adjustments. Probably the most important one is granting them 'unlimitedchat'. Other than that, before you make any transition of any sort, you should spend lots of time testing and debugging stuff just in case. Switching from bot plugins to server modules can come in time when you're ready.

 

PS: *super and *ufo are gone and will not be supported by ASSS.

 

EDIT:

What other suggestions for ASSS did you make that didn't make the cut?

One of them was to add all the sg_compat commands into the groupdef directory. Another one was to create a separate group for bots, that includes 'unlimitedchat' and 'broadcastbot', so that new players will already be better predisposed to using bots in their zones, and so that they don't do like me, and sysop the bot. I think it took me a few months to figure these things out, when it should have never in the first place.

[TurboSlug22]

 

Bots can run fine on ASSS, you just need to make a few adjustments. Probably the most important one is granting them 'unlimitedchat'. Other than that, before you make any transition of any sort, you should spend lots of time testing and debugging stuff just in case. Switching from bot plugins to server modules can come in time when you're ready.

 

 

This is also great to know, tyvm

[TurboSlug22]

I just want to take a moment here to say that I'm completely blown away by the quality on this forum. I was in a meeting discussing this and the lot of you got back to me allowing all multinational parties involved to maintain their attention span and continue the meeting.

 

Outstanding

 

And 0 flames

 

Edited November 16, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Dr Brain]

One of them was to add all the sg_compat commands into the groupdef directory. Another one was to create a separate group for bots, that includes 'unlimitedchat' and 'broadcastbot', so that new players will already be better predisposed to using bots in their zones, and so that they don't do like me, and sysop the bot. I think it took me a few months to figure these things out, when it should have never in the first place.

 

I don't recall reading your suggestions before this, but I've added bugs for your suggestions regardlessly:

http://bitbucket.org/grelminar/asss/issue/75/default-bot-group

http://bitbucket.org/grelminar/asss/issue/76/add-sgcompat-files-to-groupdefdir

[TurboSlug22]

Status update on our testing:

 

We'll work through it, but at this point we have a confusing inability to connect to the biller with as3 1.4.4 on win 7

 

We can make 1.4.4 work with subgame to connect to the biller but..... ya

EDIT: ** SOLVED **

 

A new issue now - we are having trouble loading the fg_turf module

 

2:the_snake> first this

2:the_snake> when we try to run pymod we get this

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod pymod:pymod

2:the_snake> E can't import cPickle

2:the_snake> Module pymod:pymod loaded successfully

2:the_snake> and then

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod fg_turf

2:the_snake> E error loading python module 'fg_turf'

2:the_snake> Loading module fg_turf failed

2:the_snake> and its neccessary to run our turf game of dsb

Edited November 17, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[the_snake]

Status update on our testing:

 

We'll work through it, but at this point we have a confusing inability to connect to the biller with as3 1.4.4 on win 7

 

We can make 1.4.4 work with subgame to connect to the biller but..... ya

EDIT: ** SOLVED **

 

A new issue now - we are having trouble loading the fg_turf module

 

2:the_snake> first this

2:the_snake> when we try to run pymod we get this

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod pymod:pymod

2:the_snake> E can't import cPickle

2:the_snake> Module pymod:pymod loaded successfully

2:the_snake> and then

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod fg_turf

2:the_snake> E error loading python module 'fg_turf'

2:the_snake> Loading module fg_turf failed

2:the_snake> and its neccessary to run our turf game of dsb

 

I just want to add that i do have python 26 installed on my pc, and that I can load the module fg_wz successfully

 

the_snake> ?insmod fg_wz

Module fg_wz loaded successfully

 

 

-update- apparently downgrading to python 24 fixed the issues

Edited November 17, 2009 by the_snake

[TurboSlug22]

Status update on our testing:

 

We'll work through it, but at this point we have a confusing inability to connect to the biller with as3 1.4.4 on win 7

 

We can make 1.4.4 work with subgame to connect to the biller but..... ya

EDIT: ** SOLVED **

 

A new issue now - we are having trouble loading the fg_turf module

 

2:the_snake> first this

2:the_snake> when we try to run pymod we get this

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod pymod:pymod

2:the_snake> E can't import cPickle

2:the_snake> Module pymod:pymod loaded successfully

2:the_snake> and then

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod fg_turf

2:the_snake> E error loading python module 'fg_turf'

2:the_snake> Loading module fg_turf failed

2:the_snake> and its neccessary to run our turf game of dsb

 

I just want to add that i do have python 26 installed on my pc, and that I can load the module fg_wz successfully

 

the_snake> ?insmod fg_wz

Module fg_wz loaded successfully

 

 

-update- apparently downgrading to python 24 fixed the issues

 

This is now SOLVED

 

lol @ double post

Edited November 17, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[TurboSlug22]

Status update on our testing:

 

We'll work through it, but at this point we have a confusing inability to connect to the biller with as3 1.4.4 on win 7

 

We can make 1.4.4 work with subgame to connect to the biller but..... ya

EDIT: ** SOLVED **

 

A new issue now - we are having trouble loading the fg_turf module

 

2:the_snake> first this

2:the_snake> when we try to run pymod we get this

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod pymod:pymod

2:the_snake> E can't import cPickle

2:the_snake> Module pymod:pymod loaded successfully

2:the_snake> and then

2:the_snake> the_snake> ?insmod fg_turf

2:the_snake> E error loading python module 'fg_turf'

2:the_snake> Loading module fg_turf failed

2:the_snake> and its neccessary to run our turf game of dsb

 

I just want to add that i do have python 26 installed on my pc, and that I can load the module fg_wz successfully

 

the_snake> ?insmod fg_wz

Module fg_wz loaded successfully

 

 

-update- apparently downgrading to python 24 fixed the issues

 

This is now SOLVED

 

lol @ double post

 

Ok well we got the fg_turf module to load

 

At preasent though no flags still. We're double checking our settings.

[JoWie]

It must be attached as well: ?attmod fg_turf

 

[Modules]

AttachModules = something something something fg_turf

[the_snake]

It must be attached as well: ?attmod fg_turf

 

[Modules]

AttachModules = something something something fg_turf

 

ty got it working..... had to tweak the cfg file a bit more than i had thought...

[TurboSlug22]

It must be attached as well: ?attmod fg_turf

 

[Modules]

AttachModules = something something something fg_turf

 

yea we'd done that

 

It was related to the min # of players in the zone, for some reason, the old settings needed to be tweaked.

 

So, we got the most recent issue **SOLVED**

[Hakaku]

I just want to add that the Python error could have likely also been resolved by editing the asss.bat file and adding this line before the first 'GOTO START'. (Replace 'Python25' with the appropriate path)

SET PYTHONPATH=C:\Python25\Lib

[TurboSlug22]

Hey guys,

 

So we've been made aware by Jowie that his ASSS server for his zone will inexplicably crash about once a day or so.

 

This is unacceptable for DSB unfortunately but we were wondering if its possible this is a configurations issue or if we could narrow in on the problem so we can bug-report it to make this server software more viable for us.

 

Or has it already been corrected in 1.5?

 

EDIT: I'm told in our testing environment on XP, the server crashed on its own twice in 4 hours. Maybe something to do with players changing arenas? Not sure...

 

EDIT2: Aparantly, our server logs are set to just log commands. It was suggested to our dev to log all server activity but he is not sure how to set that up. If you could let me know, I can provide the proper server logs for this issue and maybe we can get to the bottom of it.

Edited November 17, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Bak]

Does Jowie run any custom code on his ASSS server? Perhaps he should code modules in a safe language like python if he can't help making mistakes in C modules.

[TurboSlug22]

Does Jowie run any custom code on his ASSS server? Perhaps he should code modules in a safe language like python if he can't help making mistakes in C modules.

 

Unfortunately I cant speak for Jowie, but I can say we're not using anything custom - but we are using an old version of python.

[the_snake]

Hey guys,

 

So we've been made aware by Jowie that his ASSS server for his zone will inexplicably crash about once a day or so.

 

This is unacceptable for DSB unfortunately but we were wondering if its possible this is a configurations issue or if we could narrow in on the problem so we can bug-report it to make this server software more viable for us.

 

Or has it already been corrected in 1.5?

 

EDIT: I'm told in our testing environment on XP, the server crashed on its own twice in 4 hours. Maybe something to do with players changing arenas? Not sure...

 

EDIT2: Aparantly, our server logs are set to just log commands. It was suggested to our dev to log all server activity but he is not sure how to set that up. If you could let me know, I can provide the proper server logs for this issue and maybe we can get to the bottom of it.

 

 

jowie was referring to hyperspace which is not his zone, and that they have some complicated custom modules there that might cause it.

 

But we don't! its a fresh install..

anyhow it crashed twice..... I could see on the server console that it went into deadlock, unfortunately, the log itself has only events that occur inside the server itself...

this lead to a crash + restart:

ov 17 17:54:32 I {0} [Greenish] leaving arena

Nov 17 17:54:32 I {dsalkjf} created arena

Nov 17 17:54:32 I {dsalkjf} successfully processed map file 'maps/starwars.lvl'

Nov 17 17:54:32 I {dsalkjf} setting up flagcore using game pyint-I_FLAGGAME

Nov 17 17:54:32 I {dsalkjf} [Greenish] entering arena

Nov 17 17:54:43 I {dsalkjf} [Greenish] command (arena): arena

Nov 17 17:54:44 I {dsalkjf} [Greenish] leaving arena

Nov 17 17:54:44 I {0} [Greenish] entering arena

Nov 17 17:54:54 I {0} [Greenish] command (arena): pwd

Nov 17 17:54:59 I {0} [Greenish] command (arena): cd .

Nov 17 17:55:02 I opening log file ==================================

Nov 17 17:55:02 I loading C module 'playerdata' from 'internal'

 

and then it continues to reload the server.

 

 

*** I noticed that normally it should garbage the arena which was created after all the players leave it... could that be it?

[JoWie]

Does Jowie run any custom code on his ASSS server? Perhaps he should code modules in a safe language like python if he can't help making mistakes in C modules.

I was talking about hyperspace. I am able to resolve all the crashing bugs on my zone using a nice tool called GDB. (I am not saying hyperspace does a bad job, I am sure I will find a whole lot more bugs when it is completed and up and running with some decent population)

As for python, I can not use it, I have way to much stuff that can only be done in C.