BDE

[PoLiX]

So with all of these recent interest in them, our stance w/ them, etc. do we think we should maybe try working with them more?

 

They have more of a chance to help us progress, and to help us work around priit or maybe get a more active contact with him.

 

I may sit down and talk with Ghost a bit about this 1st, but I think I may try making contact with them on this subject.

 

Opinions?

[L.C.]

Definitely!

[Tag]

do you have any form of contact with priit at all? any of his e-mails or some sort of chat program he might logon regularly?

[rootbear75]

Like i said in the other topic before... if that address that was posted is correct, I can go meet with them personally if needed... I really won't mind doing this.

 

I just need stuff you want to talk about and such..

[TurboSlug22]

Like i said in the other topic before... if that address that was posted is correct, I can go meet with them personally if needed... I really won't mind doing this.

 

I just need stuff you want to talk about and such..

 

I was actually in touch with a representative from BDE today

 

we're talking about having the client made available on gamersgate - this means exposure for us and a slew of new users. For gamersgate it means they want to make the client available at a price on their website. I dont see any problem with this as long as we can continue to offer it for free.

 

I just need to let priitk know about this

[Hakaku]

Well, if there was any way of acquiring SubSpace from BDE as a community, I think we should definitely opt for that before anything. If not, we should try to work with BDE, and if possible put pressure on Priit. Otherwise, unless I'm missing something, I'm not really sure what benefit contact with BDE can bring us. I'm worried all this noise could potentially have the adverse effect of what we're seeking. They don't actually have the source to any of SubSpace, they just own the rights. They could potentially contribute to this game, but what use is it if they don't make some profit off of it?

[TurboSlug22]

Well, if there was any way of acquiring SubSpace from BDE as a community, I think we should definitely opt for that before anything. If not, we should try to work with BDE, and if possible put pressure on Priit. Otherwise, unless I'm missing something, I'm not really sure what benefit contact with BDE can bring us. I'm worried all this noise could potentially have the adverse effect of what we're seeking. They don't actually have the source to any of SubSpace, they just own the rights. They could potentially contribute to this game, but what use is it if they don't make some profit off of it?

 

I hear you about the adverse effects - I really dont think it will get to that - the worst case scenario is that the rights holders get greedy and try to stifle the free content. However, i think that since we're the ones paying to have the servers hosted, we have quite a lot of leverage in this deal too. I plan on raising this point with BDE and GamersGate - ie - there's no money involved for them if they fk with us. I think its win/win/win if everyone plays nice though and we hold the final say in what happens considering we run the servers.

 

The benefits far, far outweigh the cost

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Tag]

I was wondering if anybody had any active contact with Priit in the first place to be able to pressure him. As far as the 'gamersgate' idea, I read the other thread and it would be unethical for them to provide a free game so they can cash from it's benefits. The players whom paid would also realize the game was free in the first place and would most likely boycott the game as well as influence others to do so, and also it's in violation of SubSpace's license saying that the game is only FREE and may not be sold commercially whatsoever. As far as speaking to BDE in person, I'm no judge on this matter but I don't think you are the qualified person for that based on information somebody would give you over the internet. It needs to be somebody with in-depth knowledge of the situation (including SubSpace terms and license down to the T), be able to answer any question at the drop of a dime, and full knowledge of all possibilities the outcome may be whether it be good or bad. This seems like a vulnerable subject, and must be taken care of meticulously and with precautions.

[TurboSlug22]

I was wondering if anybody had any active contact with Priit in the first place to be able to pressure him. As far as the 'gamersgate' idea, I read the other thread and it would be unethical for them to provide a free game so they can cash from it's benefits. The players whom paid would also realize the game was free in the first place and would most likely boycott the game as well as influence others to do so, and also it's in violation of SubSpace's license saying that the game is only FREE and may not be sold commercially whatsoever. As far as speaking to BDE in person, I'm no judge on this matter but I don't think you are the qualified person for that based on information somebody would give you over the internet. It needs to be somebody with in-depth knowledge of the situation (including SubSpace terms and license down to the T), be able to answer any question at the drop of a dime, and full knowledge of all possibilities the outcome may be whether it be good or bad. This seems like a vulnerable subject, and must be taken care of meticulously and with precautions.

 

Its not unethical - what truly is unethical is playing a game that you love and enjoy and not passing on any support to the developers.

 

However, that said, i dont think there's a shred of unethical operation in this arrangement, everyone involved is happy. Stakeholders get paid, retailers get paid, new users get new content Old users get noobs to shoot. Most importantly though, old users can still access the content for free. From my point of view, the consumer pays $5 for exposure to a great game. I think we're worth it.

 

And in regards to your other comment - if not me... then who? You? Priitk? Just keep me on the right path and we'll go places. So, lets carefully think this through

 

Comments?

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»Blocks]

Its not unethical - what truly is unethical is playing a game that you love and enjoy and not passing on any support to the developers.

 

However, that said, i dont think there's a shred of unethical operation in this arrangement, everyone involved is happy. Stakeholders get paid, retailers get paid, new users get new content Old users get noobs to shoot. Most importantly though, old users can still access the content for free. From my point of view, the consumer pays $5 for exposure to a great game. I think we're worth it.

 

And in regards to your other comment - if not me... then who? You? Priitk? Just keep me on the right path and we'll go places. So, lets carefully think this through

 

Comments?

 

The developers of the game as we play it don't ask for any support -- if you read the Continuum license agreement, it strictly forbids any commercialization of the client. It is improper for you to be attempting to enter into an agreement with a company that does involve commercializing the client, regardless of bringing in new users.

[»freakmonger]

ok first off, we (the community) need to slowwww down. We don't need 15 people spamming BDE or any major company claiming they "represent" subspace/continuum. I've seen 2 or 3 people so far claiming they either already contacted BDE or will contact BDE. That makes us look like a very unorganized community. We need 1 (or 2) reps to act on the behalf of the community. Be it Ghost, Polix, or whoever, we just need to appoint somebody. Somebody active within the community and on this board would be a plus.

 

Plus, with a lot of people contacting BDE, who knows what all information (90% wrong information) they are giving them. This could complicate things down the road.

[Tag]

No, the other comment was towards 'rootbear75' because he had mentioned in another thread he is moving to a city 20 minutes from BDE's offices.

 

I don't think everybody involved is happy either, because of the fact people are going to be paying for a game and community that is supposed to be free. Lets not get off topic on this subject/thread though, this is strictly about BDE and having the right person with the right information get in contact with them to help out the situation and to claim our name not only as a game but as an online community that has been around for over 10 years.

 

I'm thinking if he/we can't get a hold of Priit K., then PoLiX is a genuine candidate for this. Speaking with Ghost beforehand may be beneficial toward the whole dillemma, but if this matter is that urgent, then I do say PoLiX go for it.

 

Edit: freakmonger is absolutely right though, spamming BDE's e-mail (as well with information that may be misleading) is very unprofessional and could complicate things. I second the notion of nominating one to two representatives to handle this with care.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Tag

[TurboSlug22]

The developers of the game as we play it don't ask for any support -- if you read the Continuum license agreement, it strictly forbids any commercialization of the client. It is improper for you to be attempting to enter into an agreement with a company that does involve commercializing the client, regardless of bringing in new users.

 

Of course it is - which is why im just collecting information, hearing offers and trying to get in touch with the stakeholders before any agreement is made - if I didnt do this, nobody would. I'm just gathering information at this stage.

 

Anyway, its forbidden for anyone to try to make money off of the client because only the rights holders can do that, which brings me back to my previous point.

 

Everything is legit here as long as the rights holders are involved. So far, BDE is involved - I just need to talk to Priitk

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[TurboSlug22]

ok first off, we (the community) need to slowwww down. We don't need 15 people spamming BDE or any major company claiming they "represent" subspace/continuum. I've seen 2 or 3 people so far claiming they either already contacted BDE or will contact BDE. That makes us look like a very unorganized community. We need 1 (or 2) reps to act on the behalf of the community. Be it Ghost, Polix, or whoever, we just need to appoint somebody. Somebody active within the community and on this board would be a plus.

 

Plus, with a lot of people contacting BDE, who knows what all information (90% wrong information) they are giving them. This could complicate things down the road.

 

From my understanding, I'm the only one thats contacted BDE and all ive said is that gamersgate wants to make continuum available for a small cost. No promises have been made, no arrangements made, only interested parties interested in hearing offers. In fact, I posted the email to them in my other thread.

 

I realize that BDE doesnt fully hold the rights to continuum though so I also need to talk to Priitk.

 

And dont worry, i'll post here before anything else happens.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Tag]

That's already a first mistake. Telling a company that may only partially own the rights to SubSpace that another company will host something they may partially own for money, they might just want some of that money or to claim more of the portion of SubSpace they already own. Nothing should have been said at all about that. This dispute was over another company using a spaceship-themed game called 'Subspace' with similar properties and us taking that right from them.

 

Edit: P.S. I know that second sentence was a bit confusing, basically telling a company somebody wants to host their game for money is like offering them the idea of trying to get some money from that, etc. Also, I have nothing else to say about this (at least tonight). I'm just hoping that everyone calms down so we can take care of this the right way. I don't mean to be mean or bash anybody in any of my posts, this is our community and we need to stick together. (=

Edited November 13, 2009 by Tag

[TurboSlug22]

That's already a first mistake. Telling a company that may only partially own the rights to SubSpace that another company will host something they may partially own for money, they might just want some of that money or to claim more of the portion of SubSpace they already own. Nothing should have been said at all about that. This dispute was over another company using a spaceship-themed game called 'Subspace' with similar properties and us taking that right from them.

 

Edit: P.S. I know that second sentence was a bit confusing, basically telling a company somebody wants to host their game for money is like offering them the idea of trying to get some money from that, etc. Also, I have nothing else to say about this (at least tonight). I'm just hoping that everyone calms down so we can take care of this the right way. I don't mean to be mean or bash anybody in any of my posts, this is our community and we need to stick together. (=

 

Youre right I did make a mistake - I was told that BDE owned the rights to continuum when i contacted them but they own the rights to the subspace client. Can anyone shed any light on how that translates to the continuum client? Do we even need to talk to BDE at all? Either way, nothing has been decided, everything is ok. Plus, we hold a big barganing chip here, we run the servers for this game so if anything goes screwy, we have the power to shut down any idea we dont like. So as long as everyone plays nice, i cant see this being anything other than win/win/win and if the stakeholders/retailers dont play nice, we have the final say.

 

In regards to your other concern, perhaps an analogy would help: 7-11 doesnt try to claim ownership/rights over Dasani because they sell it at their stores. GamesGate is a retailer, they gain no rights over the software they retail. Furthermore, 7-11 doesnt sue the government for infrigement because tap water provides the same content to people for free. The consumer has the choice to buy it or get it for free. Same idea here except we benefit from a huge amount of exposure. Someone said something about people having paid $5 getting pissed off and boycotting the game. Well... its great advertising isnt it? Honestly, if you bought it from a retailer when it was available for free, you can feel proud to support the rights holders or you can do your homework next time and get stuff for free if its available for free, thats up to the consumer.

 

It sounds to me like talking to priitk or ghost ship is the best course of action - does anyone have any contact information?

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»freakmonger]

Well off the top of my head:

 

You (turbo) contacted BDE

Root said he would drive to BDE

Polix is asking if he/ghost should contact BDE

MillenniumMan contacted Novaleaf Software

[»Blocks]

Subspace (the game): BDE

Subspace (the client): BDE

Continuum: Priitk or nobody

 

We can play Subspace and can play it for free because nobody cares enough to cause us any trouble. Even with ASSS and Continuum as replacements to Subgame and Subspace (the client), we are still playing Subspace (the game). It would be a dick move by BDE to go after server owners for infringing on and enabling infringement on their intellectual property, but they conceivably could. Since nobody's making money off this and there's no money to be made, nobody cares. That's one reason why anybody trying to monetize the client is bad.

[»freakmonger]

exactly, which is why we have lasted this long without any type of legal battle. I am 100% opposed to anybody making money off of subspace/continuum/whatever.

[TurboSlug22]

No, the other comment was towards 'rootbear75' because he had mentioned in another thread he is moving to a city 20 minutes from BDE's offices.

 

I don't think everybody involved is happy either, because of the fact people are going to be paying for a game and community that is supposed to be free. Lets not get off topic on this subject/thread though, this is strictly about BDE and having the right person with the right information get in contact with them to help out the situation and to claim our name not only as a game but as an online community that has been around for over 10 years.

 

I'm thinking if he/we can't get a hold of Priit K., then PoLiX is a genuine candidate for this. Speaking with Ghost beforehand may be beneficial toward the whole dillemma, but if this matter is that urgent, then I do say PoLiX go for it.

 

Edit: freakmonger is absolutely right though, spamming BDE's e-mail (as well with information that may be misleading) is very unprofessional and could complicate things. I second the notion of nominating one to two representatives to handle this with care.

 

*sigh* I'm sincerely sorry.

 

Im just so used to NOTHING getting done in this community unless you do it yourself - its that kind of additude that's made huge positive changes in my zone and i'm just doing what I know works.

 

I had no plan to make any arrangement without you guys (thats why i posted here in the first place) and you'll note that I took care to contact the rights holders. From my POV i've been handling this with care, so far just gathering information and I have no intention to do anything other than provide a win/win/win scenario for all parties involved.

 

Youre right though, we ought to have only 1 or 2 reps. Since ive already talked to them, i vote that to maintain our professionalism, I can relay anything you guys decide over to them, I'm more than happy to have PoLiX also get in touch with them if we cant get Ghost Ship or Priitk to wake up. Or whatever you guys think is best.

 

Sorry :\

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[TurboSlug22]

Subspace (the game): BDE

Subspace (the client): BDE

Continuum: Priitk or nobody

 

We can play Subspace and can play it for free because nobody cares enough to cause us any trouble. Even with ASSS and Continuum as replacements to Subgame and Subspace (the client), we are still playing Subspace (the game). It would be a dick move by BDE to go after server owners for infringing on and enabling infringement on their intellectual property, but they conceivably could. Since nobody's making money off this and there's no money to be made, nobody cares. That's one reason why anybody trying to monetize the client is bad.

 

I hate to say it, but youre right. This is _THE_ only negative outcome that can come of this realistically and it is a real concern.

 

Our privalige to use the game over the years has been allowed by the fact that its been deemed not profitable to sell the client. In our day and age though, thats changed. The client can be made available via online stores and it could be made profitable - albeit barely.

 

What we need is a contractual agreement that allows us to continue to operate as we are currently operating (with free client and community supported servers etc..)

 

If we can get a contract with the rights holders that allows us those things while making the client available for sale - we're good. Again, if BDE wants to make money off of SS AND mess with the community, nobody will make any money because we wont stand for it.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»Lynx]

Innovating is always risky, I believe that if you play this safe our risks pale in comparison to our possible gains. Again, I can't stress how important it is to play safe. Take freakmongers advise seriously, though... Take this whole thing 'sllllowwwwwww' - but keep persisting. You'll probably fail, but if you pulled this off it would be very impressive.

 

-L

[TurboSlug22]

Innovating is always risky, I believe that if you play this safe our risks pale in comparison to our possible gains. Again, I can't stress how important it is to play safe. Take freakmongers advise seriously, though... Take this whole thing 'sllllowwwwwww' - but keep persisting. You'll probably fail, but if you pulled this off it would be very impressive.

 

-L

 

I was JUST going to edit my post and say exactly this

 

It will take very delicate negotation but i think everyone involved can be made happy. Lets see what Ghost Ship / Priitk has to say

 

PoLiX can you get in touch with Ghost Ship and see what he says? I think if we take this path and secure our status we're better off than if we sit back and do nothing. Reason being, with that xbox 'subspace' ripoff on the horizon, things might get interesting around here. It might just be best to solidify our quasi-open source status with BDE while we allow for them to still make money by making the client available to people who are willing to pay for it.

 

Again, its up to the gamersgate consumer if they want to dig through the internet and find the free download, all we care about is that gamersgate is bringing new users to our community via their network of regular buyers.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[L.C.]

Turbo, you gotta slow things down by about 35 to 50 notches. Give other members in this community a chance to answer Polix' original question. There is always a "Create Thread" button.

[TurboSlug22]

Turbo, you gotta slow things down by about 35 to 50 notches. Give other members in this community a chance to answer Polix' original question. There is always a "Create Thread" button.

 

well actually, to my knowledge, PoLiX' thread was posted after mine was and like I said, I'm here to try to coordinate with you guys; I dont plan on doing anything without you folks

 

Hell, i cant do anything at all - - except get the ball rolling

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22