SS Rebirth

[TurboSlug22]

Hello everyone,

 

Since this is my first post here, I'd just like to start out by briefly introducing myself. Most of you've likely never heard of me but I've been staff in the continuum community for many years now, in one form or another. One thing thats never changed for me after all these years is that I've always had the well-being of the community in mind; I've always wanted to keep this game fun and alive.

 

Like the rest of you, I've noticed the population in my zone and yours decrease as time goes on... There's nothing else out there like Continuum though, so really, there should be a demographic out there that appreciate it because its unique. The game is fun but like anything else, people get bored of it and move on. Our problem is we dont get a lot of new players coming in because nobody's heard of this game. Thats not because we're not worth hearing about though, I mean, there's a lot this game offers that other new games dont even offer. When was the last time you saw a game with dozens of people playing online at once that was actually in real time? Games like WoW and the like have a commands based interface that isnt real time - your commands are dumped into a cueue and the server gets to them when it can - nothing like subspace. You can think of SS's engine as more closely related to that of a first person shooter, and you never see those games with more than 8 players really... Also, the gameplay genera is unique in SS and the skill ceiling is very very high - so we have a lot to offer, even in comparison with new games.

 

We have a Niche market which makes word of mouth advertising less effective unfortunately so in consideration of that, I've been working on a couple projects that should help revitalize the SS community as a whole:

 

First off is a banner ad that I'd like to get posted at some games websites... ign.com gamespot.com etc.. The banner will communicate some of the highlights i just mentioned about this game...

 

The other idea... well... the other idea is why I'm posting here... id really like to get your input on this...

 

I've been talking with games portals - Specifically, steam, gamersgate, direct2drive and impulse... If you dont know what these are, you should take a look. Basically its like MSN for games. They keep track of what games you own and you can download them from their servers whenever. They have free weekends for some games too. To give you an example: I bought this game called Killing Floor off of steam for $20 - its new, but it really sucks. I bought it about a month after it was released and similar to subspace, there are tonnes of servers that you can play online on, but since the game sucks, most of them were already empty by the time i bought it. One weekend, steam hosted a FREE weekend for killing floor. So say youre playing left for dead (cool game btw) and you log out and quit for the night.. steam will give you a notice saying "KILLING FLOOR, FREE ALL WEEKEND" And there's a link to download it right there. Well, needless to say, every single killing floor server was full. Hundreds of people came to play all weekend and since then, there's been a nice revitalization of population in that game (evidently people bought it)

 

Anyway, so I thought "If the subspace client was available for free on steam... we'd have hundreds of new players in all our servers." So I sent them an email and asked them what they thought. So far, GamersGate has said they'd host the client and I'm still waiting to hear back from others but there's a catch... They want it to be available for a small price (like $5)

 

Now before you get bent out of shape about how SS should be free and you refuse to pay for it etc... My understanding is that nothing changes as far as how things already are for us, our servers, our forums, our downloads... nothing changes SS is still free if you DL it from our servers. GamersGate would be their own entity making the client available for download at cost. And we benefit from all the players coming to our servers. We would continue to hold the rights to the game, and if at any time the deal goes sour, we can demand that they remove the client from their servers (im sure there'd be no cause for that though)

 

That brings me back to why I'm here - Since Its my understanding that the SSC holds the rights to this game, I believe they need to give the OK For gamersgate to host our client.

 

So my question to you is this: Do you agree that our zones are losing population? and if so, would you like to see a dramatic revitalization of your favorite zone?

 

Also, does anyone have a contact email for the SSC admins? EDIT: Looks like a company called Brilliant Digital Entertainment, Inc. holds the rights to this game - they dont have any convenient contact info posted, but if necessary I'll fax them - anyone know anyone that knows anyone?

Edited November 12, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Gravitron]

WE pay THEM to HOST/ADVERTISE our GAME/CLIENT

or

Potential USERS coming through THEIR site PAY THEM to DOWNLOAD the SS client?

 

Eitherway, there's breach of ©s that we basically don't own, and while I doubt anyone would go complaining over it, it's still portal-faggots making profit over something that is meant to be free without people who deserve to see that money (like priit who pays for the bandwidth essentially, or people who pay to host these fan sites, whoever host bots for Pro League, and so on) ever getting a dime.

 

I vote NO, purely on moral grounds.

Also, whenever users who come through this learn they paid $5 for FREE GAME (if that's what these services are requesting), they're going to be pissed and troubles ensues.

So this is twice ethically wrong, and on that basis I personally wouldn't contribute my hand in such an endeavor.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Ori Klein

[TurboSlug22]

WE pay THEM to HOST/ADVERTISE our GAME/CLIENT

or

Potential USERS coming through THEIR site PAY THEM to DOWNLOAD the SS client?

 

Eitherway, there's breach of ©s that we basically don't own, and while I doubt anyone would go complaining over it, it's still portal-faggots making profit over something that is meant to be free without people who deserve to see that money (like priit who pays for the bandwidth essentially, or people who pay to host these fan sites, whoever host bots for Pro League, and so on) ever getting a dime.

 

I vote NO, purely on moral grounds.

Also, whenever users who come through this learn they paid $5 for FREE GAME (if that's what these services are requesting), they're going to be pissed and troubles ensues.

So this is twice ethically wrong, and on that basis I personally wouldn't contribute my hand in such an endeavor.

 

Well I offered to personally pay them to have the continuum client made available for free on steam etc... so far gamersgate has replied and said that they will do it if they make it $5 to download instead.

 

I hear what youre saying about people getting pissed off about paying $5 for a game... But Man, youre underselling us!! We're worth way more than $5. I mean, how many YEARS have you got out of SS for FREE? The value there far far exceeds $5 and continuum would still be available for free just like always. I dont think calling it unethical makes it unethical. I think if you paid $5 to get it off steam, first of all, its just $5 and secondly stuff is available for free and for pay all over the internet, if you found a game on steam you didnt want to pay for, you could just go get it for free anyway. The bonus here is, we get our name out there.

 

and to address your second concern about bandwidth - if you cant afford your servers, I'll happily donate to your server fund as i've done for ours. What we're after here is population and I think there's nothing wrong with making the client available elsewhere on the terms of the people who are making it available (within reason)

 

And in regards to your concern about copyright infringement, perhaps we can get Brilliant Digital Entertainment, Inc. to agree to have it hosted on steam etc if they get a cut of the sale price - in which case, everyone's happy and there's no lawsuits.

Edited November 12, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»doc flabby]

WE pay THEM to HOST/ADVERTISE our GAME/CLIENT

This I have no problem with. And legally its fine. We can pay for advertise and store the game on their server as much as we want PROVIDED the game itself is still free of charge.

 

Paying to get the game to be advertised on a service like this wouldn't be so bad, has no ethical issues apart from the cost. An would have no legal problems. It would be like running any other advertising campaign.

 

Potential USERS coming through THEIR site PAY THEM to DOWNLOAD the SS client?

I agree with the ethical issues, I feel very uncomfortable charging for a free game, people would find out and be very pissed off.

 

Legally the licence for Continuum EXPLICITLY prevents ANY commercial sale of the game. It can't be sold for money.

Full stop, no "ifs" no "buts" its very clear on this.

 

There ARE free games on steam, might be worth asking how they got to be free

 

Quoted from continuum's licence.

This software is licenced to you only for your personal enjoyment and the enjoyment of others. It is provided free of charge and may not be used for any commercial purposes whatsoever. You may not loan, rent, lease, sell, give, offer for sale, sublicence, or othwerwise transfer this product, or any portion therein, or any portion incorporated therein (such as visuals or sounds) in exchange for any monies, revenue, or other services. You may not permit someone to use this software in exchange for anything, this software should be distributed free of charge or commitment.

Edited November 12, 2009 by doc flabby

[L.C.]

Anyway, so I thought "If the subspace client was available for free on steam... we'd have hundreds of new players in all our servers." So I sent them an email and asked them what they thought. So far, GamersGate has said they'd host the client and I'm still waiting to hear back from others but there's a catch... They want it to be available for a small price (like $5)

Subspace/Continuum cannot be published on Steam because BDE/Ozaq2 owns the rights to the game, and PriitK/the community would need to get legal authorization from them to publish on Steam (and technically any other distribution platform).

 

So my question to you is this: Do you agree that our zones are losing population? and if so, would you like to see a dramatic revitalization of your favorite zone?

Yes and yes, but keep dreaming.

 

I hear what youre saying about people getting pissed off about paying $5 for a game... But Man, youre underselling us!! We're worth way more than $5. I mean, how many YEARS have you got out of SS for FREE? The value there far far exceeds $5 and continuum would still be available for free just like always. I dont think calling it unethical makes it unethical. I think if you paid $5 to get it off steam, first of all, its just $5 and secondly stuff is available for free and for pay all over the internet, if you found a game on steam you didnt want to pay for, you could just go get it for free anyway. The bonus here is, we get our name out there.

 

and to address your second concern about bandwidth - if you cant afford your servers, I'll happily donate to your server fund as i've done for ours. What we're after here is population and I think there's nothing wrong with making the client available elsewhere on the terms of the people who are making it available (within reason)

You are talking about money. What is your budget range of donation/spending toward the support of games?

 

I do not necessarily agree with the idea of selling Subspace/Continuum again, although there is some logic and sense to it...but I just have to say no to forcing people to pay to get the game, even if it be for $1. As far as donating money to support a lost cause (Subspace/Continuum), I'm all for it!

 

And in regards to your concern about copyright infringement, perhaps we can get Brilliant Digital Entertainment, Inc. to agree to have it hosted on steam etc if they get a cut of the sale price - in which case, everyone's happy and there's no lawsuits.

Good idea, but Valve will not proceed at Step #1 without legal authorization from BDE/Ozaq2 that you and they can publish the game.

 

@doc flabby

I agree with the ethical issues, I feel very uncomfortable charging for a free game, people would find out and be very pissed off.

 

Legally the licence for Continuum EXPLICITLY prevents ANY commercial sale of the game. It can't be sold for money.

Full stop, no "ifs" no "buts" its very clear on this.

 

There ARE free games on steam, might be worth asking how they got to be free

Wait a minute -- what if it were done in the name of nonprofit and all money went toward supporting the game?

 

 

 

By the way, I like your spirit and eagerness TurboSlug22. Keep it up and don't let anyone take it away from you.

Edited November 12, 2009 by L.C.

[»LtNirvana]

If you can find a way to do all of this legally I would be all for it, aside from charging new players $5.00 but then again I don't really care about that. If anything its just 5 bucks and then they could realize that they can download it for free again in the future, gaining SS addicts at whatever cost is still a good thing.

 

I would suggest finding someone on here with a legal mind and someone else on here with a knack for advertising negotiations and hosting negotiations and the like and combining those minds with the council in terms of creating propositions for these.

 

Whatever is proposed it needs to be legal, or it won't work. Free is also almost necessity, even if by free it means donations to the cause from those of us who have been here for eons, in order to fuel a second coming. I've been waiting for someone to find a legal, efficient way of doing this for years now, and no one has yet.

 

Work on it.

[Gravitron]

If you can find a way to do all of this legally I would be all for it, aside from charging new players $5.00 but then again I don't really care about that. If anything its just 5 bucks and then they could realize that they can download it for free again in the future, gaining SS addicts at whatever cost is still a good thing.

Kindly wire Polix "just 5 bucks" for your use of this website. Thank you. (Failure to comply may result in a ban until next month when you can sign in for free. This may reoccur every two months.)

[»jabjabjab]

contact guiness book of world records and say we are the oldest mmo online, then contact G4 to give this game up as a "games for cheap bastards" section of attack of the show.... or was it X-Play? w.e. still it's a nice plan.

[TurboSlug22]

Good input guys - I agree, if there is any way possible to have the game hosted for free to download, I'd like to explore that. I still haven't heard back from impulse, direct2drive or steam. Perhaps they will accept payment to have the file hosted for free download.

 

So far, GamersGate has said they will host it for pay to DL... Once again, I know its illegal to do so but thats only if BDE is not included in the deal. All we need to do is convince gamersgate to give a portion of the proceeds to BDE. I'm sure they wont mind either considering that portions of their sales for every other game they host goes to the rights holders for those games.

 

So all I need to do is get in touch with BDE and ask them if they dont mind getting some money for a game they likely dont even know they hold the rights to. Additionally, I've been provided with an email address to contact BDE with.

 

In regards to the contention that it would be a let-down to realize that you'd paid $5 for an otherwise free game... I think thats what you get when you use gamersgate or steam. If you use steam, youre not broke so you dont mind paying $5.

 

Also, I think meridian59 (released 1996) Was the first traditional MMO - but if SS Was the first MMO, i'd be all over that suggestion.

 

Any other ideas? I mean, if you guys want someone to do the legwork on anything let me know...

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[Chambahs]

Too long to read, someone wanna sum it up?

[TurboSlug22]

Too long to read, someone wanna sum it up?

 

Continuum becomes available for DL on gamersgate (like steam) for $5 - otherwise they wont do it

 

$1 goes to the ppl who own SS to make them happy

 

SS stays free to DL from our servers - nothing changes

 

We get lots of new players for all our zones

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[General Shadow]

Too long to read, someone wanna sum it up?

 

Continuum becomes available for DL on gamersgate (like steam) for $5 - otherwise they wont do it

 

$1 goes to the ppl who own SS to make them happy

 

SS stays free to DL from our servers - nothing changes

 

We get lots of new players for all our zones

Sounds good. Whats the catch though?

[TurboSlug22]

Too long to read, someone wanna sum it up?

 

Continuum becomes available for DL on gamersgate (like steam) for $5 - otherwise they wont do it

 

$1 goes to the ppl who own SS to make them happy

 

SS stays free to DL from our servers - nothing changes

 

We get lots of new players for all our zones

Sounds good. Whats the catch though?

 

 

As far as I can tell, there is no catch - its win/win/win

 

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

[Hakaku]

Btw, problem with the formula...

 

SubSpace = BDE

Continuum != BDE

[Gravitron]

As far as I can tell, there is no catch - its win/win/win

 

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

 

Of course they are happy. They can just sit back and collect money for doing absolutely nothing over a FREE GAME.

 

The catch is that this is MORALLY WRONG and will ALIENATE FUTURE USERS and dub us as a COMMUNITY OF FRAUDERS.

[L.C.]

Btw, problem with the formula...

 

SubSpace = BDE

Continuum != BDE

Problem with logic. If this were correct, then .

 

Continuum [client] | SubSpace [client] | Discretion [client] --> SubSpace [game] = BDE

 

Three different clients, but the same game. I threw in Discretion to enhance my point.

 

As far as I can tell, there is no catch - its win/win/win

 

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

Did you ask them if they know anything about "SubSpace"? Edited November 13, 2009 by L.C.

[Hakaku]

Problem with logic. If this were correct, then .

 

Continuum [client] | SubSpace [client] | Discretion [client] --> SubSpace [game] = BDE

You're completely missing my point, I already know the difference. But good luck selling the SubSpace client.

[L.C.]

Problem with logic. If this were correct, then .

 

Continuum [client] | SubSpace [client] | Discretion [client] --> SubSpace [game] = BDE

You're completely missing my point, I already know the difference. But good luck selling the SubSpace client.

I apologize Hakaku. You are definitely correct about me missing your point then..

[TurboSlug22]

Btw, problem with the formula...

 

SubSpace = BDE

Continuum != BDE

Problem with logic. If this were correct, then .

 

Continuum [client] | SubSpace [client] | Discretion [client] --> SubSpace [game] = BDE

 

Three different clients, but the same game. I threw in Discretion to enhance my point.

 

As far as I can tell, there is no catch - its win/win/win

 

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

Did you ask them if they know anything about "SubSpace"?

 

Yes I'm in contact with a representative from BDE and yes theyre familiar with subspace.

 

Who is the rights holder for the continuum client then?

[»Blocks]

I think the rights to Continuum were purposely left vague, but if it's anyone, it's Priitk.

 

Spaceships and money do not mix.

[TurboSlug22]

I think the rights to Continuum were purposely left vague, but if it's anyone, it's Priitk.

 

Spaceships and money do not mix.

 

Ok looks like I need to talk to Priitk too then. Does anyone have an email address for him?

 

And I agree - this game should be available for free - The way i see it, the cost for exposure is being passed off to the consumer by gamersgate. I dont see anything wrong with them making the client available for a price if part of that price is passed on to the rights holder and if the community continues to make the client available for free.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[rootbear75]

If you can find a way to do all of this legally I would be all for it, aside from charging new players $5.00 but then again I don't really care about that. If anything its just 5 bucks and then they could realize that they can download it for free again in the future, gaining SS addicts at whatever cost is still a good thing.

Kindly wire Polix "just 5 bucks" for your use of this website. Thank you. (Failure to comply may result in a ban until next month when you can sign in for free. This may reoccur every two months.)

I've wired him more than $70 to help support forum upgrades. I am exempt from that one.

 

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

wait... WHAT?

Would you mind posting said email?

[»Blocks]

Ok looks like I need to talk to Priitk too then. Does anyone have an email address for him?

 

And I agree - this game should be available for free - The way i see it, the cost for exposure is being passed off to the consumer by gamersgate. I dont see anything wrong with them making the client available for a price if part of that price is passed on to the rights holder and if the community continues to make the client available for free.

 

Priitk is purposefully nearly unreachable. I hear the best way to contact him is to contact Ghost Ship, who is also purposefully difficult to reach.

 

Nobody should be paying for this game, full stop. In my book, anyone who sells the game is in the same scummy level as the HDMI cable scammers (Best Buy and Monster).

 

Making the client available for a price is essentially commercializing the game. Even if the rights holders to Subspace are on board with that, they don't own the rights to the main client (Continuum).

Edited November 13, 2009 by Blocks

[TurboSlug22]

I just got an email back from BDE - theyre excited to take part in gamersgate's offer!!

wait... WHAT?

Would you mind posting said email?

 

Here's the email with BDE - obviously, nothing has happened yet, I'm waiting to hear back from gamersgate about the specifics of their offer and i've edited out some of the contact info:

-----------------------------

 

_____,

 

 

 

Following your enquiry and email (attached), we would be happy to participate in a deal, but would like to have some further details. Please advise what you have in mind.

 

 

 

All the best

 

 

 

_____

 

 

 

--Forwarded Message Attachment--

From: _________@brilliantdigital.com

To: ___________@brilliantdigital.com

Subject: FW: Continuum/Subspace Client

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:53:40 +1100

 

 

I seem to recall you have something to do with subspace?

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: _________ ________[mailto:__________._________@airarena.net]

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:54 PM

To: __________ __________

Subject: FW: Continuum/Subspace Client

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: ______ ____________

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:47 PM

To: __________ __________

Subject: FW: Continuum/Subspace Client

 

 

 

This call was for Brilliant Digital Entertainment Inc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: __________ _________[mailto:____________@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:45 PM

To: _______ __________

Subject: Continuum/Subspace Client

 

 

 

Hi _____,

 

Thanks very much for taking my call! As I said, I am a representative from the community of users that still makes use of the Continuum client today. As I understand, the rights to the Continuum client are held by Brilliant Digital Entertainment Inc. and as their subsidiary, I hope that you can get me in touch with them.

 

Here's our situation: As the years have gone on, our community has dwindled in numbers and so, to revitalize our community, we have been considering an offer made to us by a company called GamersGate, who have agreed to host the Continuum client for download by their (substantially larger) community. This would open the flood gates, so to speak, bringing a flood of new users to our community.

 

GamersGate would like to make the Continuum client available for download for a small fee. We would like to make an arrangement where part of the revenue from sales is retained by GamersGate and the remaining portion is passed on to the rights holder, Brilliant Digital Entertainment Inc. if they would agree to allow GamersGate to make the Continuum client available.

 

We are also exploring similar arrangements with other organizations such as Steam, Impulse and Direct2Drive, all of whom offer similar services and we hope to make an arrangement where Brilliant Digital Entertainment Inc. receives a portion of the sales revenue if this can be made possible.

 

Here is some additional information about the Continuum Client:

http://www.subspacedownloads.com/index.php?act=what_is

 

 

 

 

 

If you can please convey this message, I would be more than grateful!

 

-____

Edited November 13, 2009 by TurboSlug22

[»doc flabby]

Wait a minute -- what if it were done in the name of nonprofit and all money went toward supporting the game?

Re-read the licence. The terms are very explict, Continuum has to be free of charge at source.

There are no get outs or loopholes