So a couple years later, has anything changed?

[Gravitron]

http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=18484&st=40

 

Fun read.

 

So, from those who participated in the past, how much was truth, how much was bull, and how does SS and the SSC stand today in regards to then?

 

Was/Is there an improvement, or does the death-knell decline continues without anything being done?

[»1587200]

Well, the population continues to decrease, there are still zones around that serve no purpose as they're no longer developed and dead (yet they still have ssc access for some reason, and are up) and the forum is filled with over conservative republicans and prick users. Anyone who was remotely active has left or been banned. But there are a hand full of developers who are trying to make as many visual updates as they can to Continuum to try and get new users in, but that's it. From what I can see the council is still a lack luster group of afk'ers who still haven't done anything to improve the game, as it continues to die.

 

imo

[Hakaku]

Like Syrus said, the SSCouncil remains a bunch of afkers that has done little to nothing in the past two years. Well, not like they've done anything in the past either, but their apparent pseudo influence is pretty much nil nowadays. I would have to say Polix is probably the only powerhouse of change in Subspace left.

 

In terms of zones, those that continue to develop continue to survive, while others slowly fade away. Bluegoku who stated Hockey Zone was the highest populated ASSS zone has been surpassed by Hyperspace, which is one of the only zones actually gaining population, as opposed to others like Trench Wars that are heavily declining.

 

One thing that did change since that time was that Snrrrub mysteriously reappeared out of no where, and everyone immediately began to glorify him. Although he did contribute a number of things (hosting, chat client, ASSS patches, protocol info) and helped boost the morale for change around here, I think people went too far in relying on him, since just as he appeared out of no where, it didn't take very long at all before he disappeared and stopped helping or talking anyone, let alone provide updates to what he contributed and broke.

[»Lynx]

Subspace has stagnated since version 0.40, some zones have innovated and improved (Hyperspace), and others have had small bursts of population due to dedicated staff and players (Desert Storm), however many have just died due to zones needing to be constantly baby sat on. To be honest, not much has changed, but what I personally feel is that Subspace has no longer got the community it once had. This may be because I no longer really play therefore no longer have any contact with the small zone communities anymore, and let's face it... SSForum is hardly a community. Ultimately, this is nothing to do with SSC (and this is evident, as they've not really done much, anyway), they've got no more control over this game as anybody else (although they may like to think otherwise...), and if anything you can only get as much out of this game as you put in. If there's something that you once liked about Subspace, it's not hard at all to try and recreate it - once you realise how difficult that can be I think it's about time to stop complaining to and to start to enjoy it, while it lasts.

[Chambahs]

Lol dude, Snrrrub works for google, can you blame him for not caring about a 15 year old game thats going nowhere? lmao

[Hakaku]

Lol dude, Snrrrub works for google, can you blame him for not caring about a 15 year old game thats going nowhere? lmao

I don't blame him for working, I blame 1) the community for being way too hasty to hand him a bunch of power, and 2) him for throwing a bunch of stuff at the community and failing to maintain them. It's the same old Priit argument, can you blame him for not caring about Continuum? No, but we do blame him for failing to maintain the game and letting it die.

[rootbear75]

It's the same old Priit argument, can you blame him for not caring about Continuum? No, but we do blame him for failing to maintain the game and letting it die.

Not to mention not allowing other people access to the code

Edited November 8, 2009 by rootbear75

[»Lynx]

Where did Snrrrub not let people access his code? He's provided all the relevant information to Continuum encryption, and the software that Snrrrub made is hardly a solution to Continuums problems.

[rootbear75]

Where did Snrrrub not let people access his code? He's provided all the relevant information to Continuum encryption, and the software that Snrrrub made is hardly a solution to Continuums problems.

i meant priit. sorry i didnt quote the post right.

 

EDIT: updated previous post

Edited November 8, 2009 by rootbear75

[Sketter]

There is actually a larger story as to why he left again. But should be left as people didn't get along, and so differences were not worked out, and now people refuse to work with one another.

So don't just blame him, there is a lot more going on that involved a few people.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Sketter

[Chambahs]

Thats true, there was alot of things that snrrrub was going to do, but some people got all billy-butthurt and didnt want to put down their ego-barrier to help the greater good.

[Gravitron]

some people got all billy-butthurt and didnt want to put down their ego-barrier to help the greater good.

 

So nothing has changed.

[whalz]

nothing.

[Gravitron]

Worth adding that if they managed to anger away snrrrub they're dumber than I thought. That guy was Subspace's last best chance.

[Chambahs]

Grav, i think thats one of the only things i can agree with you on bud.

[L.C.]

it didn't take very long at all before he disappeared and stopped helping or talking anyone, let alone provide updates to what he contributed and broke.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, was a result of Ghost Ship's pride and ego.

 

So nothing has changed.

Correct. And it is still just as impossible to get SSC access to non-SSC zones as it was years ago.

 

 

*hides*

Edited November 9, 2009 by L.C.

[»doc flabby]

My post was proved pretty much correct (unfortunatly). Its pretty much acedemic now however.

 

I didn't agree entirly with snruub's agenda, he kept some of the important stuff hidden, but i can understand why. But i think the risk would have been worth it. Essentially Snrrrub had a plan to rid us of dependancy on SSC, i think this is where the ego came in...

 

http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=18484

 

The future for SubSpace/Continuum is to build a new game and a new community.

 

The problem with a game like this, its so, so hard to do well. I don't think people realise how difficult it is. The technical site of things is for all purposes relativly simple comparitivly. Its gameplay and balancing and making it fun to play that are challenging.

Edited November 9, 2009 by doc flabby

[Gravitron]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, was a result of Ghost Ship's pride and ego.

That I actually find very hard to believe.

[PoLiX]

Alright, I've set silently and watched this, but now that attacks on Alex are starting...

 

As the person who was pretty much the ringmaster in all of this, I guess I should explain.

 

Snrrrub came to me about something, now been so long I forget. Well, he also was interested in how things we're going with a new client, billing stuff, etc. I explained a few things to him, we had some discussions (including over the phone) and before you know it I had him hooked up with Ghost. Ghost had finally decided to give my pestering him for change a shot, and Snrrrub couldn't have timed his coming back any better.

 

So we gave him almost any access he needed, and anything else he needed. On top of that, him having the cont protocol mostly cracked, we figured it was best to keep him close and keep an eye on him. Better to have him on the good side than the bad.

 

Well, then the plan to carry out a new client, replacing Priit's SSC Biller, and getting everyone to begin moving to asss (made the 1st 2 more easily possible) was put into action. Ghost had a lot of ideas how to do it, and was heading the operation. I just spread the word, and got people involved, and helped get support. He went MIA for a little while, and Snrrrub was doing a lot of dev. Well, in time zones began asking for more help with the Subgame to ASSS stuff, and I began talking to ghost about it. Snrrrub wasn't releasing anything more, and said it was theirs to figure out.

 

With lack of response to any request, Ghost gave him 24hrs. Nothing. So SSCA's SSC got pulled. Through a long e-mail, pretty much ending in "Isn't what your doing totally the opposite of what we're trying to achieve?" he finally e-mailed Ghost and myself back, and appologized. He then released more information, and began helping zones a bit. Sadly with the downtime of 2 days SSCA experienced we lost support for him from everyone. That and Ghost's fears he was handing us over to the possibility of another priit, a mistake he vowed to not make again, he cut ties with Snrrrub.

 

So of course, having no support from the community, well from the people who could help him easily implement his efforts, he pretty much has seemed to stop work. He did state early on, if noone was going to support him or if he felt his work wouldn't be used, he wasn't going to waste his time. So I feel this is what happened.

 

It was just a few combined failures on both sides to understand, but this was the outcome.

[L.C.]

Based on what you say Polix, isn't Ghost Ship basically being another PriitK himself?

 

Even if Snrrrub (and IMO it is a stretch to say this) was to be the next PriitK, isn't it better to work with PriitK, he was available and willing, than to have status quo?

 

To really understand, and criticize people, there would need to be some disclosed information and what these "issues and releases" are, and it still sounds like there isn't any transparency in your post, Polix.

Edited November 10, 2009 by L.C.

[»doc flabby]

I knew a bit of what went on, what made me uneasy with the situation, and why I was reluctant to get involved beyound providing some information about how to hack the menu.dll file, was I couldn't see how adding a new Biller would improve the subspace experience noticeably for anyone. In my mind, I can see it splitting the community even more. The same fundelmental design issues with the Billing system would still be there (which i posted about 2 years ago, along with my solution). What kills a game like this is downtime and technical problems, the current system is stable(ish), its best left alone, whilst we build up a new system and new game.

 

The same reason, my original opionion has changed, I think i now think its a mistake to aim for any kind of subspace compatability, or develop a "compatable" client. A completely new protocol (RakNet, which was used in Galactic Melee, is perfect), which in turns allows a new server design, and new game design is the only viable long-term future for this game.

 

Look to the game Spring (was TASpring) http://springrts.com/ (which came, and has been developed way BEFORE SupCom), its a great sequel to Total Annhilation. The community was much smaller than SubSpace, when I started playing the game, now its substancially larger, because of the progression of the game and development efforts. They DIDNT however try to reverse engineer (beyond the graphics models) and recreate Total Annhilation, they created a new game, and have taken it in exciting directions. This is the future I would like to see for subspace, its unfortunate..i lack the skill to realise it, but I will continue trying

 

Btw Polix, did ghost ever update us on whats happening with the billing scores database?

Edited November 10, 2009 by doc flabby

[Gravitron]

Sounds as though mutual misunderstanding and fear, which ever drive men to bulk off taking a chance, have had their play.

 

If I could contact both, perhaps a new framework may be reached. It is worth to try, I suppose.

I have not mailed snrrrub in long time and the address I have isprobably defunct by now. I haven't seen Alex on ICQ in a very long time, either...

Could you assist me in this endeavor, Polix?

[Chambahs]

Snrrrub reads these forums daily. He probably just read your post.

[PoLiX]

Alex I only see on MSN. Leaving him a ICQ message gets a reply when he's not online.

 

Best way to reach him is ghost@subspace.nu.

 

As for snrrrub, sharvil.nanavati@gmail.com is the e-mail he responded to the most.

 

Though most support for anything outside of PriitK's hosting and accepting a new client has been lost. We had a forum on here I created to connect a few ssc zone owners, developers, and ops. And really, it died once Snrrrub left and everything seemed gone. And since talking to most the people in the group, they have abandoned (sp?) the whole idea of it all. Especially since a certain zone sysop has proven a bit of a control freak to a lot of other ops/sysops lately, that divided a lot of efforts even more.

 

Personally I just have given up on it all and just figure i'll keep what I am doing going until it dies. Really got tired of being the only one trying to do anything (well, out of those with the capabilities) to reunite this game and get everyone on the same page again. It was nice for the few weeks it lasted between the large ssc zones.

 

GL to you though grav. Maybe you'll accomplish something.

[PoLiX]

Me and Ghost talked about this some, and his stance is I stated it pretty simple and clear as to what happened on our side. I might quote some of what he said later if need be, as he said to. But probably his best: [17:21] Ghost Ship: He was very power hungry and tight fisted with source, (never released) it was the right decision to cut him off. Wonderfull, same issues in 2004/2007 and now 2009, at loeast we are consistent

 

Only person who can clear it up more would be snrrrub imho.