Bricks

[Unix]

Is there a way we can kinda nerf brick spamming? Its kinda getting absurd to the point that it utterly kills flag games and eventually becomes tetris wars.

 

Possible options, some being extreme...

 

-Get rid of bricks (extreme, and personally dont like even though I dont even use bricks)

-Penalty for having the brick mount or holding a certain bricks so that its harder to lay at the least (like -1 energy or -5 repel)

-Shorten the length of time the brick is there (right now the timer on bricks is about as long as it takes to ?tw to base and get more bricks)

-Make bricks have holes in some spots.. Instead of ooooo make it oo oo so sparse brick would be even more sparse than it is now.

 

Those are what I can think of for now..

[Corey]

or, when the bricker dies, the brick goes away.

[Deathmonger]

How about make it so that you can only drop bricks on and brickwarp enemy lancs?

[Cheese]

old problems are old, why would they be fixed when the people who know better (not that they play or anything) have not fixed them for as long as they havent?

chances are this will just get ignored just like everything else.

 

old possibilities, suggested when fields were removed, when this needed to be fixed in the first place:

 

• more expensive bricks: they shouldnt profit from stacking them. (2-3x current cost)
  
• penalties: (like cloak now is like -5 energy) possibly make a brick mount -5 repel, -5 burst
  
• freqwide brick timer: only 1 per team per x seconds
  
• shorter alive time: make them go away faster
  
• brick dies when the bricker dies
   
   
  
• fix bursts: why do 2 burst bullets kill a stock wb? lower damage
  
• fix bursts: or disallow them on ships 1 and 2
  
• fix repels: make repeltime shorter
  
• fix repels: why do they need to take up 20% of the screen? this isnt eg
  
• fix either: force users to either green them, or go to ammo depots, or even sector 8.
   
  
• fix antideath: the 10 second delay ruins flag games, and a 1s delay will make it even lamer then ot already is, no way to fix
  

Edited November 13, 2009 by Cheese

[Kilo]

ooh, line by line reply:

- no comment on the first two

- ha ha. yeah, as if your teammates can't already screw you over enough

- if brick time was much shorter there wouldn't be much of a point to using them even if they were a lot easier to obtain

- durr want to research how you would do that first (you can't really without massive trickery involving resending existing bricks!)

 

- they don't, so i guess this isn't a problem

- cool, now people will use them even less

- lol, even if the repeltime was 1, it wouldn't really solve the problem. durr research

- wow, are you on a 512x384 resolution? might want to upgrade

- there's something we agree on

 

- what

[Samapico]

Would be nice if antideath actually killed your momentum, would make it much less lame

 

Perhaps send the player a repel packet as he dies or something

 

On the other hand, it would make it harder to predict where someone reappears, so mining the place to kill AD would be harder...

 

To kill a brick... is it possible to make a green spawn on it to kill a part of it? Or a dummy flag, or whatever the client can interpret as a tile

[Cheese]

could probably just take last position packet and simply ignore the velocity, then warp them directly after shipreset

[Cheese]

also, would be nice to have the ?degrant command automatically append -%selfname to the end

that way, we know which terrible mod is taking our money for something we arent doing.

so there can be no confusion in logs.

 

theres a reason its that way with *warn in subgame

[Kilo]

Hm? HS has mods?

[Cheese]

good point, almost forgot it didnt

[Unix]

old problems are old, why would they be fixed when the people who know better (not that they play or anything) have not fixed them for as long as they havent?

chances are this will just get ignored just like everything else.

 

old possibilities, suggested when fields were removed, when this needed to be fixed in the first place:

 

• more expensive bricks: they shouldnt profit from stacking them. (2-3x current cost)
  
• penalties: (like cloak now is like -5 energy) possibly make a brick mount -5 repel, -5 burst
  
• freqwide brick timer: only 1 per team per x seconds
  
• shorter alive time: make them go away faster
  
• brick dies when the bricker dies
   
   
  
• fix bursts: why do 2 burst bullets kill a stock wb? lower damage
  
• fix bursts: or disallow them on ships 1 and 2
  
• fix repels: make repeltime shorter
  
• fix repels: why do they need to take up 20% of the screen? this isnt eg
  
• fix either: force users to either green them, or go to ammo depots, or even sector 8.
   
  
• fix antideath: the 10 second delay ruins flag games, and a 1s delay will make it even lamer then ot already is, no way to fix
  

 

 

ooh, line by line reply:

- no comment on the first two

- ha ha. yeah, as if your teammates can't already screw you over enough

- if brick time was much shorter there wouldn't be much of a point to using them even if they were a lot easier to obtain

- durr want to research how you would do that first (you can't really without massive trickery involving resending existing bricks!)

 

- they don't, so i guess this isn't a problem

- cool, now people will use them even less

- lol, even if the repeltime was 1, it wouldn't really solve the problem. durr research

- wow, are you on a 512x384 resolution? might want to upgrade

- there's something we agree on

 

- what

Not sure what the exact brick alive time is, but I do know that most players can easily set a brick up, die, ?tw into sector 8 then attach to the lanc and the brick will still be there. Not saying it will be a whole lot longer that the brick is up there, but to be able to constantly brick and brick and brick to hold off a team and the teams only option is to really either spam bricks also or hopefully get a lucky break and the enemy brick doesnt work. If the brick alive time were about 2/3 of what it is now, it would probably be useful to lessen the brick spam, the only drawback to this is when there are 2 or more brickers on a team. I guess raising the prices to what fields used to be or slightly less than what fields used to cost would be an effective way to try and lessen it so people dont use 5-10 bricks in a row. If it costs you 1k to use a brick, using that many would just neutralize your jackpot reward.

 

Ships 1/2 are actually pretty popular to use in base games now. There are lots of small rushing ships, and I think they've become the preferred ship of rushers more so than mediums.

 

The problem with repels isnt the time of them, the problem is the area of effect. It's just too large, a ship that's nearly two lanc lengths away shouldnt be able to push you away from it.

 

Purchasing high power consumables which can "easily", not can, but easily influence the game if abused should be reserved for ammo depots or base 8. Bricks and fields are probably the two class of consumables which can easily influence the game with one single purchase, so going to sector 8 to buy them makes sense. Thors, if used in succession with one another can easily influence the game, but since it takes more than one thor to actually cause some damage and if spammed it can cause complete utter chaos in the game, which we have seen, the ammo depots are a logical position for them. Reps and bursts on the other hand are a lot harder to influence the game suddenly, not saying they dont, but it is pretty easy to counter repels and bursts simply by backing up a little or using your own repel.

 

Antideath isnt really a problem, seeing as how they time from coming back to life is simply the death green live time, which is only about 5 seconds and to be fair, it cant be 1 second, unless you want invisible ships to run passed you then all of the sudden reappear.

[Samapico]

Thing about base 8 is, if you're rich, it's not much further from safety zone. And if you can't afford TW key, then it's really a pain... IMO it would make the gap between poor/middle class and rich even greater

[protocol_]

Why must you all cry over every damn aspect of this game? You all bitched about thors, bursts, repels, bricks, and bomblines in the past and you will all continue to do so.. The most they can do is nerf them slightly and then there will be another item that becomes used more and more until you all cry again about it. I think that ALL items should be removed from the game and just ruin the entire zone so that no one can complain ever again.

[Corey]

Make it impossible to tw to base 8, a simple 10 tiles can fix that.

[protocol_]

Make it impossible to tw to base 8, a simple 10 tiles can fix that.

 

That's stupid. Why limit an item that costs 600k? If you spend that much on a ftl then you should be able to go to EVERY sector.

[vetta64]

None of this changes a good point that Unix made.

 

A vastly supperior team cannot take a base when 2 people buy an insane amount of bricks. Fortunately, the cost of doing this is too high to be outweighed winnings. However, if someone has the extra case bricks can be 10 times more effective at winning a fg than cobalt.

 

Imagine how many bricks you you could buy for 70k?

 

It should be simple supply and demand, the more people buy it the more they should cost. Except there is limitless supply

[Samapico]

Hmm, a variable economy would be very interesting indeed, people would be forced to try different strategies over time

[Kilo]

delete from hs_items where name like 'Trans%'

 

problem solved..

[Bomook]

Imagine how many bricks you you could buy for 70k?

 

It should be simple supply and demand, the more people buy it the more they should cost. Except there is limitless supply

Hmm, a variable economy would be very interesting indeed, people would be forced to try different strategies over time

This is a pretty interesting idea, though very complicated to implement. I think the variable economy should only be limited to consumables, since this aspect of HS gameplay seems to be one of the most controversial. For example, if it's a short flag game, or no flag game, people are otherwise not be motivated to buy bricks, so their price will stay relatively low. For long flag games with a huge jackpot, buying bricks would naturally become more attractive, and this would be counterbalanced by a higher cost to prevent brick-whoring. Of course, one potential problem is people stockpiling consumables when the price is low.

[Unix]

Jackpots are more closely correlated to freq size, not game length.

[Suicide_Run]

Not the best suggestion...but bring back fields so people have something else to spam instead of always bricks.

 

Abit off topic but why was fields removed anyways?

[Unix]

Can we have brick nerf plz?

[spidernl]

Not the best suggestion...but bring back fields so people have something else to spam instead of always bricks.

 

Abit off topic but why was fields removed anyways?

 

Probably not all of the reason, but it was possible to crash the zone with them iirc.

Edited January 10, 2010 by spidernl