Draft Comments

[BZAP]

i agree with everything omni has said thus far.

likewise

[ipwn]

Like I said before... It's not that I don't agree with you. It's just extremely unlikely that items will be not allowed for various reasons. As stated before I still have to discuss with Dr Brain and d1st0rt the properties of the arena. However currently there will be no ?buy option in the arena. In addition, there will be no kill greens either. Finally, the arena will be locked for each half disallowing ship changes. Please plan accordingly.

[omni]

If there is no ?buy option, why not just degrant everyone's specials at the start of the match?

This should work with the exception of portals and decoys.

[ipwn]

Feasible however unlikely. Keep in mind a referee will have to do this with their limited powers.

[kid]

How is a referee going to do anything, then? You said the arena would be locked and people will be required to stay in the ship they have. Limited powers won't allow a referee to do that. Limited powers wouldn't even stop someone from getting in the arena with a cloaked terrier and properly ruining a game. Hell, I could change frequencies mid-game.

[Dr Brain]

There's a major difference in trust between allowing a ref access to ?lockship and ?grantitem.

[kid]

The integrity of this league will be compromised with the way it is currently set up.

 

Every time you do something stupid like this, you make it more difficult to run a league the next time you try.

[ipwn]

How is the integrity of the league compromised? I don't see any moral or ethical deviations in our current plans.

[kid]

If I remember correctly, this is a draft dueling league, and in hyperspace, items are not allowed in duels. Edited December 9, 2009 by kid

[Unix]

I'm sure there have been other zones that have done 4v4 style leagues and have allowed specials in them.

[kid]

I'm sure there have been other zones that have done 4v4 style leagues and have allowed specials in them.

Sure, that makes sense in T3G, where items are traditionally used in dueling. However, this is not T3G. Items aren't used in dueling here.

[Dr Brain]

That's your complaint? That unofficial HS 1v1 duel rules are not being applied to official 4v4 duels?

[kid]

Have you dueled in hyperspace in the last year?

 

 

My complaint is that the people who have the final say in what goes on is this league are so far detached from the zone that they do not have any idea what the players want or the zone needs.

[omni]

Sure Unix I know a lot of dueling leagues do allow specials, but those specials are controlled and everyone has the same things.

 

And Brain if you're so worried that someone will abuse powers for the one hour that they get to ref the league matches, then just get one of your mods. I'm sure one of them will be able to come on for at least a little while on the weekends to ref matches and do the job that they're supposed to do.

 

Also, why dont you just make a poll? It could be general, or it could be just captains. Ask people whether they want specials to be allowed or not. Isn't that the fairest way to end this dispute? After all this league is meant as an event for the PLAYERS, so shouldn't they get to decide such a detail as this?

 

@kid I agree. I doubt any of the staff plays over a few hours a week, at most. Most staff from other zones are actually active members in the playing population, making them much more accessible and familiar to the players, and making them more aware of their needs. Even if you don't have time to play your own zone, at least listen to the players who are giving suggestions, especially if it is a majority, which a poll would tell us.

[»Ceiu]

Have you dueled in hyperspace in the last year?

 

 

My complaint is that the people who have the final say in what goes on is this league are so far detached from the zone that they do not have any idea what the players want or the zone needs.

 

Don't be a fucking jackass.

 

I've heard that stupid argument so goddamn much over the years and I'm still not done being sick of hearing it. Not only is your elitist bullshit horribly incorrect, but it's incredibly counter productive. You retard players make it blatantly obvious that not only do you guys have even less of an idea of what you or the zone wants/needs, but that you'll do anything in your power to benefit yourself at the expense of the players and the zone itself. Hell, I would argue that someone who plays in the zone less would make more fair and sound decisions.

 

Just because we don't play every waking hour like some of you h-core ultrafags doesn't mean we know less about the game. Get over yourself.

 

 

@kid I agree. I doubt any of the staff plays over a few hours a week, at most. Most staff from other zones are actually active members in the playing population, making them much more accessible and familiar to the players, and making them more aware of their needs. Even if you don't have time to play your own zone, at least listen to the players who are giving suggestions, especially if it is a majority, which a poll would tell us.

 

Sorry, we have this thing called real life to take care of. And by we, I mean D1, Brain and Arnk -- I just hate 99% of the population too much to deal with you twats. I used to play a fair amount, but you guys are just jerks most of the time. You don't play clean games, you bitch about how broken everything else, you go out of your way to test the patience of moderators just to whine about them having (almost justifiable) knee-jerk reactions to your future dumbassary, etc, etc, etc. I could keep going with the things the general population does that makes the game incredibly un-fun for developers, but it'd be a waste since you'll probably just respond with something about as intelligible as what a kid with down syndrome would say after being hit in the face with a sledgehammer.

 

Also, regarding that whole "other zone" nonsense:

Hyperspace is not . They do not have the same type of zone, the same setup, the same staff, the same community or any of the problems that come with it. Comparing Hyperspace to another zone which is running a bot that was made for them 51072510925 years ago by a retired dev is like comparing a tank to a grapefruit. It simply doesn't... something. Whatever. Fuck off.

[kid]

I don't give a shit about your "i used to dev for premier" anecdotes and they frankly don't shed any light on the situation. The person running the league, ipwn, stated that he did not want items to be used. However, to do that, at least some fiddling would need to be done which would require higher access than you want to give players or some time on the dev staff's part. Regardless, it doesn't come down to whether or not items should be in the league, it comes down to whether or not someone is willing to put the time in required to limit item usage.

 

You guys try to run a league and fail because none of you put any time into the zone and when you ask the players to run the league, you don't give them the tools necessary to run it properly.

 

I'm expecting Dr. Brain to come back with the "THIS IS HYPERSPACE AND I OWN HYPERSPACE AND I DO WHAT I WANT" argument that he always uses whenever anyone challenges the legitimacy of the ridiculous decisions you make time and time again. Honestly, I thought a zone full of staffers who don't seem to care would be a lot less interested in the patently childish e-politics.

[Dr Brain]

it comes down to whether or not someone is willing to put the time in required to limit item usage.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. No one is willing to put in the time to code new modules. Either take the league as it is, or don't. No one is forcing you to play.

[kid]

it comes down to whether or not someone is willing to put the time in required to limit item usage.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. No one is willing to put in the time to code new modules. Either take the league as it is, or don't. No one is forcing you to play.

Or we could use the easy solution: have mods ref the matches or hire new mods to do so.

[Dr Brain]

And make scheduling so difficult as to guarantee that the league will fail? Lets not. I think the way it's set up now is about the best anyone can hope for.

[BZAP]

captains of both sides can simply agree not to use specials. If for some reason, someone violates terms, both sides can resume item use

[omni]

I'm sick of hearing the whole, "we mod for you for free so we should be able to do whatever we want regardless of what all the players want."

 

If you don't want to mod for free and still cater to players' needs, you shouldnt be mod in the first place. I was staff in several zones before too, with about the same pop as hyperspace. Mediocre moderators who whine about being mistreated by players should not have taken the job in the first place, as they should know that it's a part of the job.

 

Again, I don't understand why you won't use a poll. No one addressed this part. Settling this in a democratic way would cause the least trouble. I've talked to most of the players who signed up for the duel league. I haven't heard anyone say that they would prefer specials. How difficult is it to do this one little thing to improve the league?

 

Obviously there is an easy solution. Just tell the players they cant use specials. If mods cant degrant specials, then just have the players burn them away. Spectators can view the player's specials so it shouldnt be a problem. Then if someone "accidentally" uses a special, then it's obvious thats it's intentional. How would this be so difficult to arrange?

 

And Cerium you didn't address anything that we were arguing about. You're just a troll. Stop replying because you just sound like an angry autistic child.

Edited December 10, 2009 by omni

[»D1st0rt]

I may have a trick or two up my sleeve on how we can pull this off, I'll do some investigating.

[Dr Brain]

I'm sick of hearing the whole, "we mod for you for free so we should be able to do whatever we want regardless of what all the players want."

 

If you don't want to mod for free and still cater to players' needs, you shouldnt be mod in the first place. I was staff in several zones before too, with about the same pop as hyperspace. Mediocre moderators who whine about being mistreated by players should not have taken the job in the first place, as they should know that it's a part of the job.

 

Moderation has never been about making the players happy. In fact, it's usually about making the players unhappy by enforcing rules.

 

Again, I don't understand why you won't use a poll. No one addressed this part. Settling this in a democratic way would cause the least trouble. I've talked to most of the players who signed up for the duel league. I haven't heard anyone say that they would prefer specials. How difficult is it to do this one little thing to improve the league?

 

If someone wants to write the module, I'll be happy to start a poll. Until then, there's no point. None of the devs are going to write it in time for a league.

 

Obviously there is an easy solution. Just tell the players they cant use specials. If mods cant degrant specials, then just have the players burn them away. Spectators can view the player's specials so it shouldnt be a problem. Then if someone "accidentally" uses a special, then it's obvious thats it's intentional. How would this be so difficult to arrange?

 

That's an "easy" solution doomed to failure. Players respawn with items, after all. All you'd be doing is removing the items on their first life.

[kid]

I may have a trick or two up my sleeve on how we can pull this off, I'll do some investigating.

 

Thanks, D1.

 

 

 

 

I'm done arguing, by the way. My apologies for being an asshole.

 

 

edit: Couldn't you just change the arena settings to limit the max of all items in wb and jav to 0?

Edited December 10, 2009 by kid

[»D1st0rt]

The item settings override those values.

 

I had a chance to talk with ipwn last night about a few things, hopefully we can iron out some of the details in the next couple of days here.