Sig Slots

[Sound]

Unix> What Arnk should do is have a system for signature items... your ship has 3 slots and each sig item is rated 1, 2 or 3 meaning the required number of sig slots needed to use that item

 

Aileron> its a great idea

 

DareSound> put it on the forum

DareSound> so it doesnt get lost in hyperspace

 

Unix> you think arnk would listen?

 

DareSound> yeah! or the public would

DareSound> its good to just put things like that out there, so other people can also consider it, even modify it with their own ideas - maybe produce a viable one.

 

fireBLiND> nt rly

fireBLiND> sometimes it's just a wasted effort

 

Unix> nah, i get bashed enough as it is for my ideas, feel free to post it yourself, dare

Unix> just gimme credit at end lol

 

I think the inclusion of this idea would contribute to ship set variety

 

Comments?

Edited August 2, 2009 by Sound

[Emit]

already enough variety. more sig slots means that more op'd ships. and ships r alrdy op'd

[JoWie]

Isn't that what hyperspace is all about... creating more powerful ships

[Dr Brain]

Problem with this setup would be finding sigs to take only 1 sig slot. The sigs taking 3 slots would make up the majority of the existing sigs, with maybe a few 2s.

[Unix]

already enough variety. more sig slots means that more op'd ships. and ships r alrdy op'd

How would having more variety of ships be a bad thing though? If I remember correctly, one the reasons why HS was shifted to this item set style was because it allowed for more variety than the other item set prior to it.

 

Problem with this setup would be finding sigs to take only 1 sig slot. The sigs taking 3 slots would make up the majority of the existing sigs, with maybe a few 2s.

Yeah, I agree with that.. There would need to be some item tweaking to allow it to fit properly in place, and there could also be some items raised to a the 1 slot sig item, but making the raised items slightly better. There could also be a lot more items made in general to fit these sig slots or have more normal items.

 

There was also the idea of more than just signature items having slots, but all the categories would have slots. Instead of one or two items (minus capacity) allowed per ship, you could have several different kinds of items/enhancements in the same category on one ship. This would allow greater customization and tons more variety...

 

Say you buy pulse laser, and it takes 2 out of 3 slots. You now have 1 slot to use, and there are several enhancements in the gun category.. Lower cost to shoot, multi on, bounce on, lower bullet delay, etc etc.

 

Armors could be treated differently.. There could be armor meant for guns, bombs, bursts, shrap, etc. Instead of picking just one of them, you can pick as many as you want as long as they fit in your slots. There could also be enhancements, like if you choose this armor, you have the choice to do such and such.

 

Then to branch off of this idea.. If you have unused slots, you could always have the slots transferred into another area, of course it wouldnt be a 1 to 1 ratio, you would need to give up 2 to 3 slots to make one new slot somewhere else. (Especially if you made a sig slot to add onto it).

 

Using the same item set would still be possible, but there would need to be some adjustments involved and also some things added to it. Then the items themselves would need to be either strengthened or weakened, but Hyperspace would gain a lot of variety and even more customization.

[Sound]

Guns cost 2 slots, gun modifiers cost 1 slot. SUPER GUN 3 SLOT OMG

 

basically building your own items while fitting a capacity...

 

might as well give ships like 20 stat points and have players distribute them about their guns, s, speed, thrust, rot

 

I would put all my unused slots in guns and make a super gun spamming base ship

 

good idea for adding variety by making item enhancements smaller/individual. like a billion addons!

[Dr Brain]

There's a difference between item variety and ship variety. Right now we have ship variety (maybe not enough, but that's another discussion). Sound's last post would change the ship variety that we have into item variety. Yes, there would be a lot of items, but each player would have pretty much the same ship.

 

We used to have a item system like that, where each "item" was a single stat, like Thrust or Recharge. The problem was balance. It's very difficult to make a single point of energy worth the same as a single point of rotation (or a single decoy worth the same as a single repel). That's why we have our current item system: so we can bundle upgrades together to make them balanced.

[Unix]

There's a difference between item variety and ship variety. Right now we have ship variety (maybe not enough, but that's another discussion). Sound's last post would change the ship variety that we have into item variety. Yes, there would be a lot of items, but each player would have pretty much the same ship.

 

We used to have a item system like that, where each "item" was a single stat, like Thrust or Recharge. The problem was balance. It's very difficult to make a single point of energy worth the same as a single point of rotation (or a single decoy worth the same as a single repel). That's why we have our current item system: so we can bundle upgrades together to make them balanced.

Guess I didnt really explain it too well, my fault

 

I could definitely see where the balance issue comes into play and I fully agree with that sentiment. The slot thing though works off of the current item set. So a lot of the item packages that each category has is pretty much the same, maybe some number tinkering to make them either stronger or weaker depending on the situation.

 

With each item though, it branches off into available enhancements, and depending on how many slots you have available will determine which enhancements and how many of them you can.

 

So an example would be ablative armor.

Bulletdamage -14

bulletdamageup -7

burstdamage -9

 

If you buy the item ablative, say it takes one slot out of the possible 3. Now the possible enhancements would be.. Add bomb protection 2 slots, add shrap/burst damage 2 slots, add minor bomb protection 1 slot, add more bullet protection 3 slots, and so on. Since only one slot was taken by ablative, you have 2 free slots, but if you wanted to get more bullet protection, you would need to add an armor slot.

 

Now if each category has this kind of setup where you can add enhancements to it or where items in categories are essentially the same, but they have different degrees of potency. So for ablative, there could be an Ablative I, Ablative II and Ablative III, with each needing a higher slot occupancy. Then as each one does essentially the same, but the Ablative I is inferior to Ablative III, but Ablative I allows other areas to be enhanced whereas Ablative III cant be enhanced as easily.

 

Its still keeping the items essentially the same, but allowing more ship customization and more variation in ship builds, and also at the same time allowing greater ease to make more items in general.

[Sound]

need male enhancement? extenZe.com

[Masaru]

Sounds good to me.

[vetta64]

I say why not just have 2 sid spots. If everyone can have 2 it would not be unbalanced but would create a lot more diversified.

[LeftsideChaos]

If my jav and wb had Heat and Quadcore..it'd be incredible.

[Acer]

I can't say it's a bad idea, but I just don't like it.

I didn't like the signature idea from the start and now adding two? No xD I just couldn't really see something like that happening.

[Gannon8]

Well, it may make that crappy Heat Reaver useful as a 1 slot sig or something.

[Suicide_Run]

Now if each category has this kind of setup where you can add enhancements to it or where items in categories are essentially the same, but they have different degrees of potency. So for ablative, there could be an Ablative I, Ablative II and Ablative III, with each needing a higher slot occupancy. Then as each one does essentially the same, but the Ablative I is inferior to Ablative III, but Ablative I allows other areas to be enhanced whereas Ablative III cant be enhanced as easily.

 

Both good and bad point would probably be the increase in choices. One hand, we can customize our ship more. One the other, it makes it all that more confusing for the less "pro" players.

 

Maybe it was a bad example to use Ablative armor but the over all idea ain't that bad. Think its only useful for those sig items aren't getting used alot.

 

Between, does this mean you can have and so the 1 + 2 would equal to 3?

[Unix]

I say why not just have 2 sid spots. If everyone can have 2 it would not be unbalanced but would create a lot more diversified.

Point isnt to make ships even more powerful, but to allow more customization, variety and parody in ship building. Also, having two signature mixtures with the current settings would be ... Well wow simply put.

 

Now if each category has this kind of setup where you can add enhancements to it or where items in categories are essentially the same, but they have different degrees of potency. So for ablative, there could be an Ablative I, Ablative II and Ablative III, with each needing a higher slot occupancy. Then as each one does essentially the same, but the Ablative I is inferior to Ablative III, but Ablative I allows other areas to be enhanced whereas Ablative III cant be enhanced as easily.

 

Both good and bad point would probably be the increase in choices. One hand, we can customize our ship more. One the other, it makes it all that more confusing for the less "pro" players.

 

Maybe it was a bad example to use Ablative armor but the over all idea ain't that bad. Think its only useful for those sig items aren't getting used alot.

 

Between, does this mean you can have and so the 1 + 2 would equal to 3?

It would make the newer players more confused, but when they realize that there's so much more customization than what anything any other zone can offer currently, dont you think they'd want to come back and try some configurations out? I know there are a few zones out there who are essentially doing the packages, so a lot of zones are starting to do the entire ?buy thing and allowing you to customize your ships more.

 

Well, I was getting at letting the slot idea go into each category, not just signature items, so I just used ablative as an example.

 

As long as just three slots are used, you could mix it up anyway you want.

[Deathmonger]

The problem with the sig system is that the normal items now have relatively small effects on stats, percentage-wise. The overall potential stat range was kept the same, but to make room for sigs the rest of the items were effectively nerfed. This means everybody has similar basic ship performance plus a sig. Furthermore a lot of the new items (e.g. reactors) have such severe penalties that you're better off sticking with simpler lower level items.

 

I would rather see the sig concept implemented like the old 'extra thrust/speed/rot/energy/etc' except making those mutually exclusive.

 

It was more fun when ships could be souped up more.

[Aileron]

Well, the original quote has been cut out of a larger conversation. Generally the topic was signature items which are a waste of a signature slot.

 

For example, the Oracle System. Great item, but no one buys it when they could have, say, a Trap Laser, Mass Driver, or Tac Nuke. Those three should consume all sig slots, but the weaker items should consume less.

 

Just an idea which might be worth throwing around. Certainly isn't a problem, so there's no rush here.

[Requiem.]

What's with all this "we have ship variety" stuff?

 

All I have to do to fit in Hyperspace these days is buy a random ship, stick mass driver on it and a few rockets and shoot myself randomly at my targets using rockets and holding my fire button down while yelling irl "ALALALALALALALAA"

 

__________

 

This sig idea sounds like it's being refined to something D1 mentioned a few times about Hspoints. I think more customization is sorely needed, so this idea is good,

Now for a spider using oracle AND positron. \o/

no more shall x drain my energy!

-Cynical laughter-

 

In all serious though, maybe if this idea is actually being considered, you could even get the extra signature item so you have a total of 4 places.

[Gannon8]

What's with all this "we have ship variety" stuff?

 

All I have to do to fit in Hyperspace these days is buy a random ship, stick mass driver on it and a few rockets and shoot myself randomly at my targets using rockets and holding my fire button down while yelling irl "ALALALALALALALAA"

Lmao at that. That is what I would do Except the only ship I have open would be the shark.

 

If this gets implemented (0.01% chance) give shark a 1 sig slot so it can have a small sig gun or something.

 

Yeah, I would love to have oracle or sysop on some ship, but I want trap/giga/a sig bomb/summon more.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Gannon8

[ArcticxWolf]

Sounds good to me.

This.

[Cheese]

theres really no reason why ideas like this shouldnt be used, id personally like more variety in items, ship builds, and pretty much in general.

 

getting really tired of every ship in hs being the same due to lack of variety...

 

 

 

i keep seeing item ideas being presented, and yet nothing happens.

hyperspace IS supposed to be fully automated, but change is required until perfection is achieved.

[Kilo]

theres really no reason why ideas like this shouldnt be used

keep telling yourself that

getting really tired of every ship in hs being the same due to lack of variety...

there are already hundreds of permutations at your disposal. adding more variety to the game doesn't do anything if people aren't willing to be various. they certainly aren't now, adding more choices won't make them be. they will just continue to be sheep and or uberstatwhores, and meanwhile getting any sort of balance becomes even more impossible.

 

the whole idea behind signatures is that one item makes your ship special and gives it the majority of its power. not two items, not three. you can't have multiple powerful items, allowing that gives the game LESS variety. by this thread's logic, more signatures = more variety = more good. well then, why not allow 10 signature spots then? after all then you could get a signature reactor, signature gun, signature bomb, signature sublight, signature armor, signature addon, signature mount, signature emitter and a few other signatures on top.

.

.

<>

OH I remember now that's essentially like having no signature items at all

which is exactly like how HS used to be

until we implemented signature items to put more variety in the game by forcing people to pick the one item to be the powerhouse for their ship, not having the most powerful items for every category.

oh and it worked by the way no matter how repetitive the builds seem now it was a lot worse before. the rest is up to you guys to play the game the way it was meant to be played instead of the way you do.

 

<>

OH I remember now that's essentially how HS is already

you pick a build you want and then buy the items you need to support it

you'll have to weigh the pros and cons of getting certain items though. some cost more "slots" (stats) than others

oh and by the way no matter how repetitive the builds seem now it was a lot worse before. the rest is up to you guys to play the game the way it was meant to be played instead of the way you do.

 

 

pick whichever ending fits the agenda you were trying to push / your philosophy.

[Cheese]

there are already hundreds of permutations at your disposal.

 

why have hundreds if you can have thousands?

and do you really expect people to believe you when you say, "if you have hundreds of dollars, having thousands of dollars wont let you buy more"?

 

 

 

 

and if thats your reason for lack of sig variety, whats your excuse for lack of gun/bomb variety?

(l1+l2+l3+l4)*(prox*2)*(shrap*31)= ---> 248 bombs <---

(l1+l2+l3+l4)*(bounce*2)*(multi*2)= ---> 16 guns <---

^thats not even taking into account possible differences in fire rates and energy costs.

 

 

 

.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Cheese

[»Ceiu]

Why bother with thousands when the general populace uses less than ten of the existing hundreds?

 

Regardless, it's not as simple as just permuting the item values. Your cute formulas (and they are cute) fail to account for the following:

- Two bombs which are only distinguishable by a shrap count difference of one or two are silly.

- Guns are basically already distributed as you're suggesting, save for a few combinations which would be even more broken than most guns currently are (Bouncing L4 w/Multi? No thanks).

- Different firing rates and energy costs are the only other factors available to balance out the factors you're suggesting be used to make new guns (Money and EXP mean nothing to the metawhores).

- The most broken items that exist right now are guns and bombs (Cluster Bomb and all guns in general. Hell, the sig gun stats seem to imply that Arnk was drunk when he made them).

 

 

Signatures don't need variety -- they're specifically designed to allow for broken items to exist. If more signatures are added, that just means more broken items which you dicks will abuse to make the casual players lose interest.