What if...

[Hakaku]

...I killed off Deva?

 

Ever since I've become staff in Deva, I've been nothing but criticized from every end. I love Deva, and like anyone I wish it could have more population. Originally I only wanted to help out deving, but alas both XDOOM and tm_master decided to get married and for the most part, have completely ditched the zone. Staff had already slowly disappeared before that, as did the population. No one is able to host the bot anymore, which is the main reason why I wanted to switch to an ASSS server. We unfortunately had to make that move prematurely, and things broke. Over time I've been slowly trying to get things back, and with the exception of a few events, everything is fully functional.

 

But I'm only one person; NR and Mage+ have helped with a few maps, but other than that, I'm still the one who's doing settings, server maintenance, bot hosting, programming, website and news updates, trying to advertise getting players in, etc. Heck, neither tm_master, sri, clee, or whoever else don't even spam the chat to invite players in anymore. Asides Mage+ and NR (+very recently JDS), probably the only two players who help out in-game in their own ways are Anna and laserman. Have a horse if you will, but what exactly have you done more than these two in the past 9 months?

 

Devastation's population has never been high, its second peek was 2006. I'm sure my actions contributed to part of why Deva has such low population within the last 6-7 months, but most of it was bound to happen with or without me. I'm not even sure Deva would still exist if I hadn't taken it up though.

 

But if I'm the cause of it all, and no one wants to step up and help, then maybe I should stop devoting any time whatsoever for the zone? It's frustrating enough when I send tm_master a message and he never answers or provides any opinion (it only takes 2 seconds... but I guess EG is more important eh), or when sri accuses me of being afk 24/7 when he a. never plays in Deva and b. I've always been there when I'm logged in Deva, but it's becoming a burden if I'm going to continue on developing for Deva and not a single person cares. This is only a very small fraction of the crap I've dealt with for the past 10 months, and I'm getting tired of it. Criticizing is always easier when you're not the one doing jack sh*t.

 

So what if, Deva were to cease to exist?

[whalz]

deva dies, id probably quit subspace... but then what if jds quits subspace.. would anyone care? lol

 

Hakaku , for one, congrats on 4 more posts until 1337... and thanks alot for all your hard work. Iono if anyone notices how good the zone is compared to back in the day. Sure nothing spams deva chat, but that was more of a piss off than anything.

 

im impressed that you kept deva up and running.. I figured once xdoom and tm gave up on it it would just flop. Ive been pretty busy this last year and neglected subspace alot, but i wouldnt want to call my home zone anything other than devastation.

 

i havent done jack shit to keep deva on track lately... But i can also honestly say i would never say its YOUR fault for no population.. If anyone says that they need a slap to the face.

 

your the best hakaku, seriously the best!

 

 

Deva is awesome, and seriously your doing one kick ass job hakaku. Maybe its only me who thinks so ( i doubt its only me) but fuck yea, rock on. Im not going to b e much more active than i have been, but il try to come on as much as possible and at least afk in the zone so it says 3players or 2players instead of just anna

 

 

i tell you though, i miss rasta420 :\ me and him would dew all day long

[Asteroid]

Hakaku you've done a sick job, trust me a few more days ill help you im unbanned on the 31st i wish other players would be as loyal as you

[»Purge]

Maybe merge with Hyperspace as a subarena? Would be a nice twist, plus you can keep all your ASSS stuff.

[whalz]

* pukes at thought of merging w/ hyperspace *

[Hakaku]

Devastation couldn't become a subarena because it's a full fledged zone: it's not as easy as bundling up a couple of SVS zones which have as only fundamental difference staff and map. The passerby might not understand this, but Deva wouldn't be Deva if it were just a map and settings, thrown into a zone which has no affiliation whatsoever; I'm not pulling a Zone66. Should the possibility even be considered, I'd rather merge with a zone that has not only heard of Devastation, but can at least spell my name properly.

[No_Remorse]

First Post

 

Please no. I would definitely help out more if work wasn't so time consuming but life goes on. But please no.

 

Deva is awesome, and seriously your doing one kick ass job hakaku. Maybe its only me who thinks so ( i doubt its only me) but fuck yea, rock on.

 

Yeah as far as my innactive ass can tell i agree with this.

 

Devastation couldn't become a subarena because it's a full fledged zone: it's not as easy as bundling up a couple of SVS zones which have as only fundamental difference staff and map. The passerby might not understand this, but Deva wouldn't be Deva if it were just a map and settings, thrown into a zone which has no affiliation whatsoever; I'm not pulling a Zone66. Should the possibility even be considered, I'd rather merge with a zone that has not only heard of Devastation, but can at least spell my name properly.

 

And agree with this as well.

 

I wish Deva the best of luck though because it's inevitable that sooner or later I will be back pwnin nubs.

[Janedoe]

Deva's a zone people have put ALOT of time into, for example tm_master and XDOOM. if YOU got rid of it... it wouldnt be fair on them do you reckon? why not just get rid of you and leave it to those who dedicated years and years to it. it would break tm's heart for it to cease to exsist

[tm_master]

...

 

Okay, I normally don't post on this forum system because I dislike it, but I think this calls for it. I am going to be careful how I respond to this because after I read the first post I was extremely aggravated to say the least.

 

First off, I just want to say that I appreciate everything you have done for Devastation, Hakaku. However, with that said the zone will never die. With all due respect it is my belief that killing off the zone is not even Hakaku's decision to make. I don't care how much stuff he controls or what type of access he has. I think this post was made out of peaked frustration in the heat of the moment which I will forgive him for. I understand because I have dealt with that same frustration myself. I have been in his position before, except I was sole owner of the zone at least a few times in its history and dealt with the same problems. The trouble is they are magnified with the current state of the game right now. Trust me when I say that I have faith that Devastation's community will once again thrive and that there is no real reason for this thread except letting off steam.

 

The fact is this zone has and always will belong to XDOOM, the original owner and creator and myself being staff since 2000 (owner, sysop, and head of staff through most of that time). As long as there is even ONE person willing to play it, it is worth the best efforts of everyone involved. I want it to be known that I care about this zone and its community probably more than anyone else in its history. Would I have made such efforts over the years to hold its community together if I didn't? In fact, it is my belief that Hakaku may have made this thread in an effort to just fire everyone up and get them to take notice or play.

 

Consider the notice received. Now let me address some of your post with what little time I have left online here (since it is after 7am my time now and I have work at 10am).

 

What if Hakaku killed off Devastation? Not likely to happen considering nobody can kill off what we have built as a community. That is stronger than anything. I would contact XDOOM and we would just re-open the zone. Indeed, its playerbase and community would definitely live on. Nobody can take that from us. Ever. Trust me, a close-knit Subspace/Continuum group of friends/players never truly dies. Point proven: I see people regularly enter Devastation whom I haven't seen in years such as Sani-Wipe, Odyessey, etc. Eventually people meet back up with you (even those whom I would never have expected to return..it's just a fact and has happened so many times since the revival in 2005 especially). To attempt to kill the zone at this point would simply be silly.

 

Criticized from every end? How exactly have you been criticized from every end? I haven't seen you take any criticism, to be honest, besides that which you may find in this post.

 

Completely ditching the zone, am I? I find that hard to believe considering I work 60-70 hours a week (sometimes more) busting my butt trying to make a decent life for myself and my family and yet I still find time to get online at home, message every single contact I know in-game and out to come play Devastation, and sit in the zone waiting for responses (which I am doing right now). Besides, I don't think anyone has put the time into this zone that I have over the years. I'm sorry but you picked the wrong person's devotion to question, Hakaku. I still am on for 2-3 hours a night which is about as much as my health can sustain. Just because I am not online when you are do not judge me.

 

Nobody's able to host a bot? Fine, I played and thoroughly enjoyed Devastation in an era when there were no bots or buyables. No ASSS? That's acceptable to me, I liked things better with a conventional server running on tradional subgame. So, you have been doing a great job translating things to as3 that broke. Last I checked, you weren't the only one who helped contribute to doing that. I appreciate the added functionality but we need to focus on getting more players first.

 

Mage+ will be back soon and is willing to help, I have been talking to him through instant message recently. As for settings, the only settings I truly care about are in the main arena, and those should not be touched; bot hosting: Deva has no bot; website and news updates make no difference anyway without more viewing the site/knowing of its existence (besides I have seen few); I have also seen Hakaku do little to no actual advertising of the zone or attempting to get players (hopefully he IS doing that when I'm not there and not just sitting afk).

 

Devastation's population has never been high, huh? Again, showing your ignorance. There was a time when this zone was at 20+ constant (sometimes more) through all hours of the day. The real vets will remember that glorious time. From November of 2006 to January of 2007 the zone was hitting 20+ nightly, however it wasn't sustaining it like in late 2000. As for the zone not existing if YOU hadn't taken it up, give me a break. That isn't for you to judge. If you weren't there, I would have run it myself if not for limited time or probably found someone else. Besides, this isn't a staff popularity contest. I do everything I do for this zone and because I truly love its community, not to gain some kind of credibility or popularity. I know you're well-respected already on these forums and in the community, and hell, I respect you..but don't make a comment like that to make yourself out as some sort of hero when the only thing that should matter to you is the zone and its players. The way I see it, you were graciously given control of certain aspects of the zone by someone who had great faith in you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to kill it without the consent of others involved and it certainly doesn't make you some high-and-mighty savior of Devastation. Want recognition? You're spouting off to the wrong people, because your concerns should lie with the zone and its daily operations.

 

The reason I have not replied to your messages is simply because while I appreciate you taking the time to set up subarenas, convert things to as3, and make settings in them there isn't much feedback I can give you when we have no players to play in them and test things out (at least at my time). WHICH is why I have been spending some time in EG if you weren't so dense to have been able to make the connection. I have found that if you make actual friends, get people to join the zone's chat, and utilize the community-aspect of the game to its fullest, you can successfully and legally convert people to another zone with similar settings and gameplay. It works and is one valuable tool I used to help Devastation back when it was revived in 2005. Sri plays Devastation plenty and I have never seen him give anyone a hard time. Judging from all the activity on this forum lately, there are MANY who care. 10 months of crap, huh? Try 10 years. I have heard it all.

 

Truth is, there is plenty positive to look forward to in Devastation's future. The core community is still kicking, we just need to renew their vigor to play. And nothing major need be done, in my opinion. I would suggest a big event and everyone we know being contacted to agree on a day/time that would be best for the most...such as something as simple as a megajackpot night which should become a regular thing for a certain day of the week anyway. When there's a little action, it tends to turn into a much bigger amount in Devastation. All it needs is that spark, which I demonstrated last time I was in earlier in the day for a game. Even Hakaku commented on how much fun that was.

 

Come on people! DEVASTATION LIVES!

Edited July 30, 2009 by tm_master

[Janedoe]

1) if mage is staff i dont think anna will play and neither will i.

2) i havnt been here as long as most and it would even piss me off

3) hak dont post useless threads.

 

kthx.

[jacob hunter!]

hak I can provide money to further help deva out pm me in game under the name "curse" if you need some cash to help[ deva out. then ill come in and be alot more active in deva.

[Asteroid]

Hakaku I think you are having a meltdown, maybe you need some time apart from Deva and you can see how much you miss it, honestly you and tm_master are the greatest sysops Deva wouldn't be Deva without you.

 

Hakaku - Great Bot Dev / Mapper / Programmer you show allot of character in Deva.

 

tm_master - You are just really fun you are an awsome player. though you hide alot and you should give new players a chance.

 

 

Janedoe, you don't know what your talking about.

 

You and Anna never play. always chatting to players or playing trenchwars. Anna plays once in a blue moon but Ive never actually seen her help get players or start a game. I am not point my finger but you cant say stupid shit like "If so and so gets staff" or "so and so does this I am quitting". this is just making Deva worst. you hardly play. no one cares. don't play the drama card believe me Ive tried it doesn't help.

 

Who says i even want staff? why would i want staff? nothing to gain i would probably just abuse and piss off tm once again, all i care about is the future of deva.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Asteroid

[Asteroid]

Deva's a zone people have put ALOT of time into, for example tm_master and XDOOM. if YOU got rid of it... it wouldnt be fair on them do you reckon? why not just get rid of you and leave it to those who dedicated years and years to it. it would break tm's heart for it to cease to exsist

 

It's not about that.

It's about Hakaku pissed off cause lately he's been doing all the work,

If hakaku leaves deva will be gone.

Think about it what does hakaku do

.Makes maps

.Makes ASSS Modules

.Fixes Bot

.Hosts Bot

.Got SSCA Devastation hosted

.Put up Arenas

 

 

Who will do those things if he leaves.

Tm?

Xdoom? i dont think so

 

tm_master is working 60-70 hours and XDOOM is just a flaming potato bag.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Asteroid

[homer simpson]

I appreciate all the hard work you have done for the zone Hakaku. Without it the zone would not have lasted as long as it had.

 

Even though it might seem at this point like no one cares, I still think you should keep it open. Even if you're unable to advertise and try to a higher pop, still keep it open for those random times when people gather to play and the pop will spike for a while.

 

The only reason I want it open it because that zone has a lot of history. I started playing it 9 years ago, yes, you heard right, that's not a typo, 9 years ago, but it existed even before I came. I met some people there I still keep in contact with.

 

It would just be nice to have it as to play to go to, even if I can't go to it as often as I would like.

[No_Remorse]

Let's not bust Hakaku's balls he's carrying the workload right now.

 

And it's nice to hear from you tm. But ouuuuch!! 60 or 70 hours! Shit son!

 

About this scheduled event I vote for it being held on a Sunday because that's my day off, and probably a good chance that it's most other people's day off too. But I can't really do the 3,4,5 AM games anymore =(

[Hakaku]

I think there are a few misconceptions going on in this thread. Firstly, I thank everyone for their comments, but I don't want the focus to be on appreciating the work I do. I have long acknowledged the hard work and dedication of various other key members of Devastation's long lasting community; XDOOM, tm_master, Hallowed Be Thy Name, SOS, No_Remorse, the_accountant, JDS, rasta420, Mage+, YuckFou, Bossboy, SG, Gibbit, UoK, Clee1, and several others I can't think of at the moment, or belonged to Devastation before it was taken offline originally. And I definitely countlessly thank everyone for their work and dedication; I'm not bashing anyone for their time and effort they've put into the zone.

 

However, what I'm putting emphasis on is the exact last 10 months of Devastation. Why 10 months? Because 10 months ago, XDOOM officially retired from Devastation. Retired, gone, bye bye, sayounara. He would still enter the zone a few times for the following 4 months, but the intervals became more spaced as time kept on. Another problem 10 months ago was that there were barely any staff members asides tm_master, myself, and mage+. To also mention, 2 months in as sysop, I had asked tm_master what we should do: SSCI was shutting down. He told me not to worry about it, because Death+ had a plan. - I did worry, but I didn't plan it out very well, I never backed the content and I doubt D+ who only spoke riddles to me had either. Realistically, if no one else had a backup (XDOOM didn't), how would anyone be able to upload Devastation? Luck had it that there was one stored from around 2006 or so on the website. And yes tm, you're right, someone else could have still retrieved this backup and set up the zone. XDOOM did put a lot of faith in me; but I also didn't go around begging to be anything more than a dev person. I took it (after asking several times why not so and so) because I knew he was getting married and would quit subspace right after. It was either that, or XDOOM would have most likely put Devastation offline himself. I don't want reveration as a staff member, nor as a zone owner; I talked long to LYNX about the reason behind this some time back. And the main part of that was because this is still XDOOM and tm_master's zone, for all their time and effort.

 

The major difference between Devastation 10 years ago and today is more than major ; it fundamentally comes down to its player base. 10 years ago the population of SubSpace was rising, people seeked to help, and others sought staff. Today being staff has no prestige, and helping out seems to be too much effort and time wasted. To also state that Devastation would be better off without bots or extra features is a fallacy. This isn't 10 years ago, no one plays in a zone that looks like it was set up in 3 hours; for about 4 months in 2007, Deva had no bot, and population dropped to near-nil as a consequence. It only picked up half-way during the summer because XDOOM started hosting the bot himself. I understand that you, tm_master don't mind in what shape or form Deva takes, but as Mage+ hinted concerning bases, these are nothing but old memories. Not all of us were around 10 years ago, and if we want to keep on par with modern SubSpace, we can't continue to focus on attracting older players : think about newbies and visiting players who enter Devastation from other zones. Development is a highly important factor in keeping a zone kicking. To quote Polix: "Stagnation is the enemy."

 

And I know who enters the zone every 24 hours, and how often they log in, thanks to two nifty features : ?last & ?alias. Last time I had checked (when he told me I spend 24/7 afking), Sri played between intervals of 3, 31, 46 days.* If that's a lot do you, then I guess we must think differently. This is basically how I knew you (tm_master) couldn't enter Deva between February-April due to a computer problem. I also don't advertise when there are only 4 people on chat: usually anna, me, and two players like Able and Miskrit who are impossible to get replies from even if pm'ed. Unless they leave in under 30 seconds, I have far more than often gotten out of spec and played if someone's around.

 

*This isn't why I'm frustrated with him. I'm frustrated at the fact that there was a 2 on 2 going on, then he came in and started ?brickwriting all over the players. They all left. I warned him and he acted as if nothing was wrong with speccing and being a nuisance to those who are actually in a ship and playing the game. This isn't an isolated incident.

 

Concerning feedback, I already understand you not being able to provide feedback for subarenas and events. But I asked you to take a look at NR's map for over 2 weeks, reminded you a few times, and you still never did even though during those two weeks you had logged on Deva almost every day. But I don't want just feedback, I want communication between us. You're on when I'm not and vice versa. Things sometimes break when I'm not online, yet not once did you ever send me a message even though I've constantly asked you to; I would only find out a few days later after Anna mentioned it. You've known Deva better for longer than anyone else here, give some ideas and opinions from time to time, it's all I ask. I don't want to feel as if I constantly have to worry about your reaction on minor or major changes like XDOOM always did. You two had some issues because you never talked, let's not go that way. <3

 

I also never questioned your devotion to Deva tm, but maybe the term 'ditch' wasn't the best to use. XDOOM retired. You have a job, a life, and a wife that take up most of your time, meaning that you have gradually less time that you're able to spend in Devastation. It's an inevitability. Why is it so offensive for you to accept? You still find time aside to come and play Deva, and often sacrifice your sleep in doing so. Most of us have known this, and think you're awesome for your determination. But realistically you can't be on everyday or 24/7. But if you're the only one promoting Deva in the little time you have, how is Deva expected to gain population? Yes, in the past we've had over 20 players, and had up to 32 players in 2006. But 2006 didn't have a rough population of 32, nor 20, nor 10. 2001 statistic graphs do prove that Deva had over 20 players at times, but this wasn't constant; the average was at tops 7 players for that year.

 

Also, if I really wanted to kill off Deva, don't you think I would have done it already? (alas I'm not that cruel) I started off the thread with a hypothetical question, not a definite line; and have also stated that I love Deva, or else I would have refused to even step foot in the zone from the start. I'm sure you've put up with your share of crap tm, but people respect and know you more than me, so I'm easy pickin's to them. Whether it's new players, old players, people I consider friends (eg. janedoe), current staff, former staff, billing operators; I've taken bullets from a little bit of everyone. But anyhow, asides the minor complaints, a number of personal attacks, having Deva accused as a safe harbour for cheaters and threatened to be shut down, here's a fair neutral message from former sysop SG-538 Psycho Drone: "Jesus christ, you have no players. You think I dont know how shitty of a job youre doing but I know your pop is generally Anna idling."

 

Like you tm, I also have a life: I go to university full time, work full/part time, have friends, gf, family, church, and stuff to attend to. The reason why I prompted this thread is once again, if I'm not online and neither are you, who will in all honesty take care of and play Devastation? SG is correct in that Deva has practically no players, and has had a decreasing population since late 2006 - early 2007. We're now 2009. Let's find ideas and solutions to fix this. I'm not sure who it was, but they were correct in that I created this thread for the sake of sparking conversation in a closed community that's become so dispersed.

[Kuja]

As a vet i would be devistated if this zone went down (no pun intended) i have been in and out of this zone for at least 8 years...and its the only one i enjoy...i broused through the previous text..merging is a bad idea...keep deva as it is...its always had a lowish pop but at least its fun and the peeps are cool

[Avast]

Hi everyone..

 

This Falconeer.. from Deathstarbattle. Some of you might remember me as Avast. I only started playing devastation around 2007 i think. Back then devastation had 10 people on a night. We would have 5 vs 5 base games. Eventually we would get 14 people a night, 18 people sometimes and we would have some of the most fun basing games. No remorse was playing then, gibbit, clee, mage, the accountant.

 

I eventually became bot op, and would host racing games. I would also often bring people from my squad into the zone. My squad was Tyranize, 181st Tie, etc. This is in fact the very reason you guys know clee1. This is the reason you met clee1. He was from my squad, and would never have entered devastation if it wasn't for me. Ftw is also another person I brought over. There were also many other people I brought into the zone to play. I remember sometime in 2007 we had a record 30 people online. 8 of them were from my squad.

 

I even made a pact with tm_master to transform my squad name to Obsidian, and recruit people into Obsidian. That way Obsidian squad would exist in DSB. And hopefully a connection could be formed between the DSB obsidian and the devastation obsidian. This did last for many months. And Obsidian had over 30 people in it at one point. However I had some problems outside subspace and was unable to continue.

 

Tm master contacts me every single night in a PM and says hey man come and play some deva. And at least half the time I do. I think the very fact I want to post here and express all this shows I have a love for devastation.. you guys are taking advantage of something special here.. I know its hard and your trying hard, and there is a lot of stress and pressure. But you will think back on this.. and say.. wow remember devastation? We should have never closed it.. it was the most fun I had even when I was doing all the work.. I miss all the people.. I miss the zone settings.. I even miss the damn chat, and people spamming me to come and play deva. When I enter other zones, the atmosphere is terrible. If its not the players who ruin the moment, its ALMOST always the staff of other zones.. Devastation has some really amazing people pulling for it.. Such people should never be let down..

 

I still have many contacts from Deathstarbattle.. around 50 people. I will do my part and make an effort to bring whoever I know that is online to the zone. Just like i did in the past. I could only bring 2 to 8 people at a time. And they would only play for 30 minutes or an hour. But I believe thats an epic accomplishment and everything will help. Besides maybe someone i bring will be like clee, and end up living in the zone lol.

 

Also I can rejoin staff and offer any help you need hakaku. I dont have many skills, but I have 2 hours a day to help you out, I am sure we can find something for me to do other than bringing people over. I can dev maps really well. However I am used to devving dsb maps, so I will need some time to get used to Devastations map style. I can host some races like before. Maybe help you with website updates.. or to test things out etc. There is no reason to close devastation, there are lots of people who want to help tm master and you hakaku.

 

Plus I have never left devastation chat all these years. How come you never mentioned me!

[Asteroid]

Close this forum, pointless. -Congratulations look at how many posts Hakaku has.

1,337 very nice work

Edited July 31, 2009 by Asteroid

[whalz]

your more pointless than this forum

??? dont you mean thread mage+...

 

seriously shut up and dont start nothing

[Louis]

Deva has been my favorite zone since i started playing Subspace, ive been playing deva for years, i love the settings. if Deva went away i would probly quit continuum, Please KEEP Deva Up!

[black_plague22]

XDOOM? Is that you?

 

This thread is almost like deja-vu from when I played back in the glory days. Hi vets, ilu.

 

So, back to the question at hand. What if you are the cause of the low pop? I don't know how to break this to you... but you aren't. Not looking to belittle your accomplishments since I don't even know who you are, but this thread looks like a thinly veiled attention whoring thread.

[Mite]

If you haven't seen me lately it's cause I was banned. But I didn't quit playing and I'm back now. Just tell me in deva chat when we're playing and I'll be there. <3 Devastation

[Asteroid]

i got renetbanned till september

[whalz]

hah