1984 Discussion Thread

[AstroProdigy]

Just read 1984 (never had it assigned in any class) and while I found the notion of an enslaved outer party with all its members' every action and even facial expression watched and controlled with no happiness outside the party a very plausible scenario along with an 85% majority of proles who are ignorant, destitute, and subservient. You can see in the UK already kids being told to rat on their parents for "suspicious activity" in the name of terrorism and there's no reason human beings can't turn into such sheep as to act the way 1984 people acted under just the right conditions.

 

I also see the present building up of supranational entities as potentially a fulfillment of the scenario with only a few dictatorial states.

 

The way technology has progressed today it would be even easier to watch and control people than it was then.

 

Even the permanent war scenario is already being experimented with (war on terror).

 

I even agree with the way the world is described having upper, middle, and lower classes as well as the way they're generally set up (although I think it's not absolute and we've seen that pattern often broken).

 

The one thing I can't possibly believe is the situation in is their description of the inner party which is entirely devoid of individuality and content with a system in which they are all only moderately well off and none are able to improve their situation. In my opinion the only reason we can't have that type of system anywhere which can also be everlasting is because of the ambitions of individuals at the top. I don't doubt the utter stupidity of the vast majority of those not on the top and you can see from America how you can gradually dumb them down with no consequence, but a single unified elite devoid of greed and ambition.

 

What do you guys think of the book and whether it's plausible.

Edited July 5, 2009 by AstroProdigy

[Samapico]

Take some soma, and everything will be fine.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Take some soma, and everything will be fine.

 

 

Thats Brave New World sama, not 1984.

[Samapico]

I know

 

haven't read 1984

[Hate The Fake]

i liked the book, it was made as a warning of what could be.

 

And since the book was written technology has advanced to the point where big brother is watching u. There are cameras on literally every corner you will ever cross.

[Bak]

as soon as facial recognition software becomes widely used on all those cameras and linked together in a common database we will really lose a lot of our privacy. It's a bit inefficient to have people watching people.

 

When I read that at first I kept seeing Newspeak as News-speak, not sure if your experience was the same. Very depressing ending.

[NBVegita]

I don't personally feel we will ever get THAT bad.

 

Things are becoming more and more invasive and I think, or maybe I hope, that if things got bad enough, people would revolt.

[AstroProdigy]

I never thought it was really the people who could successfully rebel against the system alone. You almost always need a disgruntled portion of the elite to go along with it. Even the emancipation of the slaves was done by a portion of the elite. Otherwise the slaves in the south were an incredibly sheepish group with no serious revolts. The only successful slave revolt was in Haiti and that was because the slave population was many times larger than the rest of the population and the condition they were put under makes 1984 look like a paradise. Even that revolution was thoroughly crushed and isolated in the end and today we have Haiti as one of the poorest countries in the world. Without a divided elite or an incredibly small and isolated elite you won't get successful rebellion. That's the one part I find impossible to destroy; the greed and ambition of the elite as individuals.

[PoLiX]

The government barely monitors its own employees on the internet. It also barely monitors its own employees in a lot of secure areas.

 

In the short time I've worked for them on a naval base, I have really begun to believe a lot of the "security" measures they tell us they take are just bs or for show. Also how many times one of the nuclear sub bases has failed security checks, yeah...

 

With how little effort they put towards monitoring us (though we're "more trustworthy") I just don't see them putting so many measures in out in public.

 

Though looking at the stuff countries like Iran and North Korea have done to their people, or even some african nations, i'd say they're closer to big brother than we will ever be in our own lifetimes.

[AstroProdigy]

But that's my point. It's not that the elites can't take over and we wouldn't be docile enough as a whole to let it happen under the right conditions. The major roadblock is that they're too divided and most aren't interested in totalitarianism.

 

Besides unless you're old our lifetimes is a very long time in which a country can go totalitarian. I don't know about Iran; there are many states on a similar or greater level of authoritarianism than Iran China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, Burma, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Eritrea, Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Chad, Equatorial Guinea, Rwanda, Burundi, Angola, and a few others as well as lots of somewhat less authoritarian states. North Korea on the other hand is probably as close an example to the world of 1984 that currently exists.

Edited July 9, 2009 by AstroProdigy

[»doc flabby]

The biggest fear I have is NOT the state, but rather pissing someone off who works for the state and then using the tools against me to ruin my life.

 

Think "Enemy of the State" rather than a systematic attack on your personal life.

 

We are treading a slow road to totalitarianism, but thats why you guys have the 2nd amemdment in the US and the separate states. Your guns are to protect yourself from the goverment, not each other

 

This is something i think we are much closer to and far more troubling are stories like these t http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.

Edited July 9, 2009 by doc flabby

[AstroProdigy]

The link was fail.

[LiDDiS]

I know

 

haven't read 1984

 

You should read them both. Along with Fahrenheit 451. Humans are probably going to end up as a sad mix of the three We're already well on our way to having the gene manipulation of BNW, the omnipresent 'big brother' and thought crime of 1984 and the censorship of 451!

[NBVegita]

but thats why you guys have the 2nd amemdment in the US and the separate states. Your guns are to protect yourself from the goverment, not each other

 

Amen.

[jacob hunter!]

pfft only sheep people will be controlled. the other people (like myself) will always have that perfect life style because of my ability to think and act for my own self. Edited November 22, 2009 by attraction

[Samapico]

but thats why you guys have the 2nd amemdment in the US and the separate states. Your guns are to protect yourself from the goverment, not each other

 

Amen.

A shotgun can't do much when the government has tanks. This amendment had its reason for a few centuries, though. (imo)

[MillenniumMan]

but thats why you guys have the 2nd amemdment in the US and the separate states. Your guns are to protect yourself from the goverment, not each other

 

Amen.

A shotgun can't do much when the government has tanks. This amendment had its reason for a few centuries, though. (imo)

 

Something some of you might want to look at is a book called Patriots, by James Wesley,-Rawles. The pre-print version is called triple-ought or TEOTWAWKI. You can still find it on the internet for free, but it's about 200+ pages long. Most of the situations we're facing today are described in this book. It's a little Judeo-Christian centric, but still well worth the read. You'll find some ideas on how to put off your own and your loved ones social, economic and physical demise for an extended period of time, detailed descriptions on improvised defense and offense, and it's all in a story format as opposed to a how-to manual. It was written 15 years ago, but many of the principles are the same, the dot-com crash (which hadn't happened yet) the next great depression and how it started (too similar) even with a black president handling the problem with his overseas handlers (Obama's trip to China). Creepy how many things this book got right.

[NBVegita]

The point isn't to shoot at a tank with a shotgun.

 

If you used that mentality, should every country who is getting aggression from a technologically superior country simply surrender?

 

No matter how many tanks you have, you can't win a war or rebellion with tanks or jets alone.

 

Also note that when you have arms it gives you means to confiscate such technology from the enemy. Hell, a well armed group of civilians could very easily storm an army/navy/air force base. An unarmed group has no chance.

 

Plus the civilians have the advantage that unless the government plans to destroy most of it's infrastructure which it needs for those very same tanks and jets, tanks and jets are only of limited use in non rural areas, in a civil war done in a non 3rd world country. It's not exactly like you can carpet bomb Chicago or just drive a tank down Broadway.

 

I mean I could honestly go on for a while.

[SeVeR]

The war on terror is a war on fear.

A war on fear is a war against being scared.

A war against being scared is a war against whatever the media scares us with.

 

SO GET READY FOR TERRORIST COMMIE PEDOPHILE DEVIL-WORSHIPPING RACISTS FROM HELL! THEY'LL BEAT THEIR WIVES, AND YOURS! <*WOMAN SCREAMS*> COMING TO A CINEMA NEAR YOU SOON! PREPARE TO SHIT YOUR PANTS.

 

...The current terror alert is "SEVERE", please be vigilant and report any suspicious behaviour to your local gestapo... i mean police.

 

FILM BEGINS:

 

Chuck Norris: "If this war ever ends then we will have lost it! It must last forever or they will come and kill us!"

 

Somewhere in Rajikiflikistan:

Terrorist Commie Pedophile Devil Worshipping Racist from Hell: "Hey Abdul, we don't need to fight this war, they do the fighting for us"

Abdul Kalashnikov Putin Bin Laden LaVey: "Yea I know dude, I didn't even know who the Americans were until yesterday, apparently we're in this Al-Qaeda thing now, at least that's what I was paid to join up with."

TCPDWR from Hell: "Who paid you to join that?"

Abdul: "I dunno, but he paid me in dollars."

 

Back in the Pentagon:

Chuck Norris: "Hey if we kill these guys then the war will end. So we will have lost the war then because we will stop fighting and they will come kill us.

Superman: "Who will?"

Chuck Norris: "they will"

Superman: "Who is they?"

Chuck Norris: "The people who will start hating us because we are good Christians with lots of money and white skin"

Superman: "Oh right, I forgot, so what do we do?"

Chuck Norris: "Give them money of course."

Superman: "...the fuck, why?"

Chuck Norris: "That way we can control our enemy and it all works out in the end."

Superman: "I love you Chuck, lets get frisky"

Chuck Norris: "Suck my".............

 

Back in Rajikiflikistan:

Abdul: "If I had a dollar for every time I burnt an American flag in front of a video camera I would be rich.... oh wait I do."

Terrorist: "Lets get some hookers."

 

THE END

[rootbear75]

4 words:

 

Eat some soylent green.

[L.C.]

CHUCK NORRIS.

[BDwinsAlt]

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast,
or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number
of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Edited March 7, 2010 by BDwinsAlt