DeadOn Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 Why do people have to stack teams? Last couple of days I've constantly been hounded by 2 or 3 ships. You keep playing and you notice they are always together all the time. I guess with the introduction of voice it has really taken a hit on this game too. I know my position has been communicated that way because you take out one good guy and then a few ships come directly to where you are. Problem is, is the battle I fought and won was a battle off the screen and not even around other players. I don't find this game as much fun anymore because it's always against impossible odds. Last night I was up against a team with 3 Lev's in the base. It got boring really fast. You start taking out some of the ships in the base and all of a sudden you got a swarm of enemy coming after you. I had left this game for months and came back only to find out someone put limits on the ships too, yet it was ok to have an abundance of Lev's but next to no Jav's... Does that even make sense?? There are also some very stupid bugs in this game that obviously nobody is capable of fixing and it causes a serious inbalance. Take for instance a Jav who bombs ships sometimes not killing them, frequently I'll spawn in and shoot a ship less than an inch away from me and it does nothing to him and to boot, he is capable of shooting me a split second later. Many times too I have shot a bomb from a Jav and hit 3 ships or a wall with 3 ships or more beside it and only come away with 1 kill. These are long time bugs and no fixes. I've flown many a warbird and hit other warbirds, sometimes just after they shot and they didn't die. Many times I shoot a warbird, hit him and he's firing 1 second later without having gone over a green. This game has got lots of bugs and a lot of morons who think they are good only because they got a boyfriend on one hand helping them out. I play less these days only because it appears people just want to kill this game. Fix the game or take it offline. Hell this game didn't even make it into PC Gamers FREE games list.. I thought that was hilarious but indicative of what people think of it.
Samapico Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 First of all, you should be aware that the Internet is not instantaneous. When you say you hit someone, it actually appears so on your screen, but there is a delay before the bullet you shot gets to the opponent's "screen", and the opponent you see is actually a few pixels away from where he really is because his position didn't reach your "screen" yet. You didn't specify in which zone you were playing.. I assume it's Trench Wars. Maybe you did not notice, but this game has a lot of different zones, each with their own gameplay. I suggest you go try other zones if you don't like TW. As for your first paragraph... this is a team game, when I see a teammate get killed, I'll go after the guy who killed him, simple as that... In TW, you can factor in that people just want to take on a ship weakened by a fight for easy kills, but that's part of the game Just for the record, a Jav bomb explosion in TW does not necessarily take out anything on the other side of the wall... If the ship has full energy, it has a good chance of survival.
DeadOn Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Posted April 9, 2009 First of all, you should be aware that the Internet is not instantaneous. When you say you hit someone, it actually appears so on your screen, but there is a delay before the bullet you shot gets to the opponent's "screen", and the opponent you see is actually a few pixels away from where he really is because his position didn't reach your "screen" yet. You didn't specify in which zone you were playing.. I assume it's Trench Wars. Maybe you did not notice, but this game has a lot of different zones, each with their own gameplay. I suggest you go try other zones if you don't like TW. As for your first paragraph... this is a team game, when I see a teammate get killed, I'll go after the guy who killed him, simple as that... In TW, you can factor in that people just want to take on a ship weakened by a fight for easy kills, but that's part of the game Just for the record, a Jav bomb explosion in TW does not necessarily take out anything on the other side of the wall... If the ship has full energy, it has a good chance of survival. Hey Samapico, I play only in Trench Wars. I could literally host 20 of these Trench War servers if I wanted. Bandwidth and latency are no issue here. I have a true 100Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. I can reproduce and record these situations to fully prove these are bugs. I don't buy the lag argument. I've been around long enough to know that. I ping 15ms to the server on a bad day. Lag is not on my side. Also, if it were that the ship was not there, why is his flight not altered at all? Why isn't there a hiccup where he appears to chug? I don't buy the lag, I see this as a bug. Team game no problem, but we are not talking 1 ship I am talking 4 or 5 ships all come out at once and target "me". Not anyone else. They all leave the nest at the exact same time. Coincidence, my butt. Consistent, yes. Organized with voice comms, most likely. Flying in a Lev, shoot with 4 or 5 enemy near the wall in the base, bomb lands between em on a wall, some find a way to survive however they are all equal distance to bomb. In many instances those that survived were already shooting. If a Lev can take me out from a mile away when I have 100% energy then surely a hit right beside them on a wall should take em out. A few times, when this situation has arisen I've noted the ships that survive started appearing and disappearing on the screen and then smooth out. Isn't it a little coincidental????? They didn't do it all the time I was on server but yet ironically started as soon as something like this happened. It's a LOL situation but yet happens a lot in Subspace and I chalk it up to exploiting or BUG. Warbird flying right behind him, takes out the target in front of him and at the same instance I shoot him only to see my shot hit him in the tail and do nothing. Then the warbird thrusts off or turns around and shoots me... You call that lag? Then that's not me lagging, that's server F up. BUG. Hit a Lev who just shot quad firing, with a Jav bomb, the bomb explodes but he has warped. Why did my bomb explode and not just continue on?? That's a BUG, not lag. A Lev who shot and got hit by a jav almost at the exact same time while he warped should be dead. Either this is another exploit or a BUG. 5 years ago I'd have accepted lag but with the connection I have now it's just an excuse to make up for unfixed bugs and people exploiting. That's my opinion. Sadly I am still addicted to this game since the beginning so I suffer from this crap each time I play. I just wish whoever is supporting this game actually make fixes instead of putting lame holiday maps in. People want to know why others are leaving Subspace, these are your reasons above as far as I'm concerned. Bugs and likely exploits that have gone on for so long without fixes. People don't all flock to warbird for nothing. It's an unbalanced ship that can avoid death even in times it's literally impossible and people know it. I prefer diversifying my skills so I fly all of the ships but most preferably a jav. Warbird to me is a wuss/n00b ship I prefer a challenge. If it is really and truly lag, then put a mechanism in to kick people with packet loss. I'm sorry but if your internet is crap then you should be kicked. If a persons ping is jumping 50ms up and down kick em or throw em into spec.
Static Burn Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 Just because you don't lag doesn't mean others don't. There are people from australia and brazil who play TW (http://www.trenchwars.org/index.php?v=pubs...=countriesgraph) and most of them lag like crazy. If you don't want to be teamed and you want to play with less laggers try joining a squad and playing in the TWD arenas. TWD arenas have more strict lag limits than the publics to and the teams are always even number wise(4v4, 5v5, etc.)
»doc flabby Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) Warbirds ALWAYS kill in trenchwars with one shot if you hit on target on your OPPONENTS SCREEN. The issue is while a shot may appear to hit the target on your screen, the target sees your shot miss on their screen. Its possible to shoot and miss a ship but still kill it For some more theoretical discussion this article is interestinghttp://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1370.asp Subspace uses method "(A) Tell the server you took out that other alien." Also note In the competitive arenas of trenchwars, such as ?go elimbeta and belimbeta, twdd, twjd there are much stricter packetloss and lag limits. Flying in a Lev, shoot with 4 or 5 enemy near the wall in the base, bomb lands between em on a wall,What you may or may not realise is that if you fire a bomb and it explodes close to your ship...it damages your ship instead of your opponents, this is called close-bombing, if you want to ensure you kill people in the flag room...you need to stand well back. I would also add if you think people are cheating in the game, or lagging to much, you should report them using ?cheater We have had a problem in that some of the lag cheats from FPS like CS:Source are starting to trikle down to subspace... Team game no problem, but we are not talking 1 ship I am talking 4 or 5 ships all come out at once and target "me". Not anyone else. They all leave the nest at the exact same time. Coincidence, my butt. Consistent, yes. Organized with voice comms, most likely.I can categorically tell you that is not the case, there is pretty much zero organisation in pub, other than talking in pub chat, you must just look like an easy target I just wish whoever is supporting this game actually make fixes instead of putting lame holiday maps in.So do we...there have been no real updates since 2003....Hence there are new versions of the game being made. Edited April 9, 2009 by doc flabby
rootbear75 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 It's been long known that every so often, you get duds in both javs and wbs... (shot that hits but doesnt kill)
Dr Brain Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 I ping 15ms to the server on a bad day. Lag is not on my side. Also, if it were that the ship was not there, why is his flight not altered at all? Why isn't there a hiccup where he appears to chug? I don't buy the lag, I see this as a bug. Just because your computer makes ships fly in a smooth path instead of having them jump around doesn't mean it's a bug. You also misunderstand how the game works (your brain has a bug). The server doesn't know anything about when your bomb explodes. If your bomb explodes on your screen, it doesn't mean that your bomb exploded on everyone's screen. It only means that *your* computer thinks it hit something. People may still die to your bomb if *their* computer didn't think it hit something.
No_Remorse Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 You also misunderstand how the game works (your brain has a bug). Hahahaha
Audry Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 screw you No_Remorse... i wanted to quote that line anyway... still one of the best line i did read in a while!!! hahaha
NBVegita Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 Simply because you don't lag doesn't mean that others don't. Also it's great to speak from a high and mighty chair stating that with your 100/20 and 15ms connection that anyone worse should be forced into spec, but you have ridiculous overkill for the majority of internet related things unless you have a dedicated server you can connect to. As such, the majority of people refuse to waste their money on a connection that they will never get a noticeable benefit from. Moving forward, the majority of players will average WELL above your latency. If someone has a 90ms and you have 15ms, there will be an occasion, if you play the game a lot, that you will "shoot him" and he won't die. Welcome to the internet. You're complaining that TW is losing players because of lag, but if they lost every player who had higher than your 15ms lag, there would be 3 guys playing the zone. Without them losing all of those players, you will encounter lag at some point in time. Again, welcome to the internet. Welcome to subspace. This has ALWAYS been this way. In fact it is much better since we've lost the whole dial-up crowd. As for the teaming aspect...now I've been out of playing continuum for a few years...but last I remembered...it was a team game...I know it's a novel concept...interacting with other people to accomplish a goal...but I'm pretty sure that's how the game is played...
DeadOn Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) It's been long known that every so often, you get duds in both javs and wbs... (shot that hits but doesnt kill) About the only answer I buy in this thread. I realize it's been known for a long time, but it should be fixed. Warbird in straight line with Warbird you hit ship it doesn't die. Lag? BS. Bug, yes. Javelin hitting motionless Warbird, fly by and he turns around and kills you the next instant. Lag? BS. Bug, yes. Lev, shoots wall at base with enemy ships (5 total) all die but Warbirds escape consistently and fire the next second. Lag? BS. Bug, yes. Weasel, Lev shoots him, he repels shot, hits wall not even 1" away from him he lives while all others around him dies. Makes sense. Bug. Warbirds are predominantly the most used ship in Subspace. Gee, wonder why? Thanks rootbear75, obviously this game has zero code support and just a bunch of wanna be smart people behind it in the forums. I guess I was expecting too much. Funny too for a bunch of really smart guys who act like they know lots about good/bad connections and yet that can't keep their site from getting exploited and hacked. How ironic. Even more interesting is I wonder if they fly Warbird too? Edited April 13, 2009 by DeadOn
CRe Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 Funny too for a bunch of really smart guys who act like they know lots about good/bad connections and yet that can't keep their site from getting exploited and hacked. How ironic. Even more interesting is I wonder if they fly Warbird too? Good/Bad internet connections has nothing to do with site exploits and hacks.
»Lynx Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 I would reply to this topic showing how retarded you are, but I have more productive things to do... like... Playing with my.... -Lynx
Samapico Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 These kind of "bugs" as you call them happen in every game... but in Trench Wars it's more frustrating because it's one hit kill. You should try other zones that are not one hit kill...
Kilo Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) You don't buy that packets can randomly hiccup and take longer to appear making even seeming sure hits fail? Internets r perfect!Bottom line: in this game the client decides when it dies, no other client or the server will tell them when they got hit let alone when they should explode into a million pieces. If latency and packetloss didn't exist (but sadly things travel at best at the speed of light) and we transmitted packets continuously instead of 10ms intervals then maybe you could say it was a bug. I bet you've never encountered a bullet or bomb that hit you but did no damage to you in the same scenario.. almost like it's because SS works the way I described. Maybe pay attention and you'll notice the reverse is also true: you can miss someone and they'll die. Edited April 14, 2009 by Kilo
socialintercourse Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) Sex 101RE: DeadOn's question: Here are the C++ routines relevant to your question. In order:1. Set time diff %d --> %d (%d) ping:%d\n2. PktSeedSync (%d) %x\n3. TimerDiff: cur:%d reg:%d ave:%d ping:%d drift:%g determ:%g\n4. SpdDet: %g %g %g %d %d %d %d\n When you die or kill, the determinant is based on factors: 1,2,4 (3 is needed to calculate 4).As you can see the algorithm is produced by the game client not the server, however, all communication is client->server, server->client &/or + server->client(2). Without giving too much away, there are approximately 2 sets of 10 byte strings (including padding) that are negotiated with the server for kills/deaths.But the critical client element you speak is the routine- GFX (Graphics) emulation and speed detection.The game since its creation v1.3x has been modded not rewritten, and as such you can update/streamline the standard kernel/winsock comms. to withstand an additional 0.09% average or actual enhancement to performance in a UDP server/client MMOG. So you are right, its a bug in so many words and can be made more efficient.Sex 101 Edited April 14, 2009 by socialintercourse
»Lynx Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Sex 101RE: DeadOn's question: Here are the C++ routines relevant to your question. In order:1. Set time diff %d --> %d (%d) ping:%d\n2. PktSeedSync (%d) %x\n3. TimerDiff: cur:%d reg:%d ave:%d ping:%d drift:%g determ:%g\n4. SpdDet: %g %g %g %d %d %d %d\n When you die or kill, the determinant is based on factors: 1,2,4 (3 is needed to calculate 4).As you can see the algorithm is produced by the game client not the server, however, all communication is client->server, server->client &/or + server->client(2). Without giving too much away, there are approximately 2 sets of 10 byte strings (including padding) that are negotiated with the server for kills/deaths.But the critical client element you speak is the routine- GFX (Graphics) emulation and speed detection.The game since its creation v1.3x has been modded not rewritten, and as such you can update/streamline the standard kernel/winsock comms. to withstand an additional 0.09% average or actual enhancement to performance in a UDP server/client MMOG. So you are right, its a bug in so many words and can be made more efficient.Sex 101 ... And that's what *SHE said!
rootbear75 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) It's been long known that every so often, you get duds in both javs and wbs... (shot that hits but doesnt kill) About the only answer I buy in this thread. I realize it's been known for a long time, but it should be fixed. Thanks rootbear75, obviously this game has zero code support and just a bunch of wanna be smart people behind it in the forums. I guess I was expecting too much. Funny too for a bunch of really smart guys who act like they know lots about good/bad connections and yet that can't keep their site from getting exploited and hacked. How ironic. Even more interesting is I wonder if they fly Warbird too?First off, i want to fix a MAJOR correction in your logic.... PING doesnt mean SHIT (unless its higher than 150, then problems start). its your packetloss that affects lag most of the times... If you have high PL, then a lot of packets are being resent, causing the described lag. However, there is ONE exception. the S2CWeapons packet. This packet DOES NOT get resent if it is dropped. Therefore the supposed recorded "hit" you see, probably got dropped somewhere between your computer, the server, and the said person's computer. its not a bug. welcome to the internet. U haz been correctd. EDIT: and when this thread gets closed, and you still dont believe me, i will take this up with you in AIM or MSN if you want. Edited April 14, 2009 by rootbear75
No_Remorse Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Also, regarding these so called duds. There is random bomb damage in Cont for whatever reason which factors in things such as velocity. So let's say you shoot a bomb travelling at 1km an hour you will not cause very much damage to your opponenets in some cases. I'm not sure if this is the same for bullets.
»Lynx Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Depends whether bullets are using exact damage or not.
Kilo Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Also, regarding these so called duds. There is random bomb damage in Cont for whatever reason which factors in things such as velocity. So let's say you shoot a bomb travelling at 1km an hour you will not cause very much damage to your opponenets in some cases. I'm not sure if this is the same for bullets.There is no random bomb damage. The place the bomb hits you will change the damage though. Since the bomb does maximum damage at its center and less as you move away from the center, there is an irregularity because ships are square. Thus if you hit someone at the corner of the square it will do less damage because the center of your ship is farther away from the bomb than if the bomb hit you on the center of an edge of the square. For bullets there is a Continuum feature that makes bullets do 0-Maximum Damage (so if random damage is enabled, bullets can do as low as 0 damage) and the average damag ewill be 2/3s maximum. However random damage is optional and I'd be surprised if TW had it considering the few-hit-kill nature of the zone. And their bombs have insane splash damage where you can take lethal damage even far away from the bomb so the place where you hit the ship with a bomb shouldn't change whether they live or die.
»Lynx Posted April 15, 2009 Report Posted April 15, 2009 There is random bomb damage and it is irregular for more reasons than the ships being square, but that is a good point. There's also the proximity sensor vs. explode pixels vs. proximity trigger time. Therefore, if you have a bomb with a proximity sensor at 3 tiles, with level three bombs = 9 tile proximity sensor from the center point of the enemy ship, which = ~4.5 tile proximity distance (which is circular, not square like the ship). So if person x shoots a bomb slowly at a ship with a level 3 bomb at 3 proximity = 9 tiles, however with a 150ms explode delay the bomb will explode slightly within the proximity area, and will have an explode pixels of x, which at the center point of the explosion will be max damage. Therefore, the bomb will explode however far away, but the ship will only endure whatever damage the explode pixels determine. However, for a non proximity bomb, explode pixels still account for damage, as well as the center point being *maximum damage. Anything after that, is random however is generally determined by how fast the bomb hits the ship vs how long the bomb has been alive for. If you shoot a bomb at an enemy ship that's 1CM away from you (provided you can), you'll probably do near 95% of maximum damage, however if you shoot a bomb slowly at a ship that's farther away from you and it hits the enemy ship awkwardly, it will do less damage. And on top of that, you've got other factors such as shrapnel/bbombs/ebombs that will change how much damage each bomb will do (shrapnel which can either be completely random/set or do a certain amount of damage within it's first 1/3 of life), bbombs and ebombs doing a set 0.1% of damage. ... Or something like that. bullets either do 2/3 at random, with an option of maximum, or are exact. -L
No_Remorse Posted April 15, 2009 Report Posted April 15, 2009 I'd say using the term random is a pretty good way of simplifying it for all us mathematically challenged folk.
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