Cancer+ Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/0..._to_introdu.php FINALLY. It's the first step in the right direction. Not only do I like smoking the stuff but it would be a HUGE boost to the economy.
Chambahs Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 Shit 50 bucks tax for an ounce? Guess what? Weed prices just went up 50 dollars per ounce. lol
Sketter Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 Relax kids, this is still just a bill.
Suicide_Run Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 Shit 50 bucks tax for an ounce? Guess what? Weed prices just went up 50 dollars per ounce. lolNot if you grow it urself! lol
Sketter Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 If they keep that at $50 it will drive more ppl to the black market. Since (if) it is legal more will be willing to smoke weed, meaning more users, and frequent users, and the need to look for a deal. To actually make this work they need to bring that number way down. But again, this is just a bill, it isn't law, and I'm sure there will be a lot of people who are going to fight this, just like gay marriages.
FMBI Posted February 24, 2009 Report Posted February 24, 2009 Yeah, this is gonna fail for the same reason the "fair" (at 30%?) tax did. It's not only regressive, it's insanely regressive. If you want to keep people in the legal market, you have to make the requirements reasonable - apparently they've never heard of gas bootlegging? Oh, that and the fact that weed still isn't popular enough to reach permanent legalisation in the first place.
Lera Posted February 24, 2009 Report Posted February 24, 2009 just the governments way to keep you dumb and stupid and voting like morons.
»doc flabby Posted February 24, 2009 Report Posted February 24, 2009 Acctually the price would probably stay the same...and the quality would go up Most of the cost of weed is down to it being illigal and thus being manufactured in an inefficent way (plus all the costs of smuggeling it around...dealerss cuts) The cost of producing cigarettes is around 2-3 cents per cigarette. I imagain weed would be in the same region pricewise..if not less as the canabis plant is easier to grow than tobacco. So the tax would probably be pretty reasonable, given that an ounce of weed is around $200...i suspect that could be reduced to like $20-30 once the illegality was removed...
Bak Posted February 24, 2009 Report Posted February 24, 2009 $50 more an ounce is like $6 more per eighth... which is nothing.
Cancer+ Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Posted February 24, 2009 Yeah, the tax means nothing. Everyone will buy it for the convenience factor. They won't care how much it is.
Chambahs Posted February 24, 2009 Report Posted February 24, 2009 Wait, whats stopping people from selling it and not paying tax?
Cancer+ Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Posted February 25, 2009 First off...CONVENIENCE. "hey man, you got an ounce?""nah man, I dont have any until Friday.""oh nevermind, I'll just get it from the pharmacy." "hey man, you need any tree?""no man, I just picked up." Not saying that is always going to happen, but very good chance. that will happen a couple of times and then the guy will be like "fuck him..i dont feel like waiting for an extra $5" In every Americans life, convenience rules all. /drunk
Hellonearth Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 In every Americans life, convenience rules all. which is why america is fucked up atm
»doc flabby Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Wait, whats stopping people from selling it and not paying tax?The same reasons i imagain that stop you make your own beer and selling it There will be a licencing scheme i imagain for producers and retailers. Once you take the illegality out...it becomes substanically cheaper and less risky to operate leagally...than illegally..therefore removing an incentive to try to avoid paying the tax...
NBVegita Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 Lol, the whole idea is amusing. First, being it would be illegal in all states but California, I hope you all live in CA. Second, it would still be Federally illegal. Third I don't personally don't believe people would be willing to pay an extra $50 an ounce to get it from the government, specially when it is a ridiculously easy plant to grow. It's not like growing tobacco or brewing your own beer. Any idiot with 1/4th of a brain can grow pot. Fourth regulations will have to be put into place for underage smokers along with driving/operating machinery ect. Fifth simply because the state deems it legal does not mean your employer has to accept that you smoke, specially as it is still a federally illegal drug. Sixth (tied in with number 3) the price of the "black market" will drop sufficiently under the price the feds will sell it at because if it's not illegal it takes out most of the cost associated with the pot you buy now. The market supply would flood to a level beyond the demand of the plant and I would expect it to become cheaper to buy weed than cigarette's over time. Seven, it'll be interesting to see the obesity rate soar in California. Well I guess at least THAT would stimulate the economy... Without seeing the details of this bill, it seems pretty half-assed to me.
Chambahs Posted February 25, 2009 Report Posted February 25, 2009 I think if it does get legalized, all the good pot would still be illegal. You think they are gonna let you sell poppy/hydro? Lol, I think they will force a potency rule somewhere along the line.
valate Posted February 26, 2009 Report Posted February 26, 2009 taxes are so confusing. when i have to do taxes im gonna hire a rent-a-azn.
Cancer+ Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Posted February 26, 2009 Lol, the whole idea is amusing. First, being it would be illegal in all states but California, I hope you all live in CA. Second, it would still be Federally illegal. Third I don't personally don't believe people would be willing to pay an extra $50 an ounce to get it from the government, specially when it is a ridiculously easy plant to grow. It's not like growing tobacco or brewing your own beer. Any idiot with 1/4th of a brain can grow pot. Fourth regulations will have to be put into place for underage smokers along with driving/operating machinery ect. Fifth simply because the state deems it legal does not mean your employer has to accept that you smoke, specially as it is still a federally illegal drug. Sixth (tied in with number 3) the price of the "black market" will drop sufficiently under the price the feds will sell it at because if it's not illegal it takes out most of the cost associated with the pot you buy now. The market supply would flood to a level beyond the demand of the plant and I would expect it to become cheaper to buy weed than cigarette's over time. Seven, it'll be interesting to see the obesity rate soar in California. Well I guess at least THAT would stimulate the economy... Without seeing the details of this bill, it seems pretty half-assed to me. 1. If it happens in one state, it will eventually branch out to the rest. "Oh, look how much money California is making, well let's do that too!" 2. Same as #1 3. Sure it is rediculously easy if you have the proper lights, the proper place to put it, the time to do it etc etc. Plus it would take WEEKS to grow it when you can just easily pick up a bag at the store. Like I said before, convenience is the factor. Plus, what happens if you screw up growing the plant? Say you forget to give it the proper sunlight...then you're screwed and you have to grow another one. Couple more weeks added. If it was so easy to grow it, people wouldn't need dealers. Everyone would grow it themselves. 4. Of course there would have to be. It said in the "blog" that it is for people over 21. I'm sure it would be considered just like alcohol meaning no smoking at work, operating a vehicle etc etc. 5. Same as 2 and 4 6. The black market will cease to exist. Some day you're "dealer" will be out of his shit, so he has to go to the store to pick up some to sell to you. If he has to go to the store, he is going to upcharge etc etc. Or if your dealer is out of his shit that day, you will simply go to the store and get it. 7. This is a good point. I have no debate over this. But this is where discipline comes in to factor. If you can't control yourself eating, that is your own stupid fault. Marijuana WILL be legal within the next 20 years. That is what I'm predicting. Why not? Alcohol is legal and it is wayy worse than Marijuana. It would be a good thing to tax. It would help the economy. Of course regulations will need to be in place just like any other thing.
NBVegita Posted February 27, 2009 Report Posted February 27, 2009 1) The only state you can legally make porn in is California and that is a much larger source of revenue that marijuana. Also note how brothels are legal in Nevada, ect. Simply because one state makes it legal historically does not mean another will. 2) Unless they levee a huge federal tax, why would they make it legal? So now instead of paying $50 dollars in tax per ounce you pay $100. Awesome. 3) You realize if it's legal...and you are in California...the proper light = growing it outside. Like most plants, growing it outside is the most efficient and easy way to maintain it. If you can grow tomatoes, you can grow pot. 5) I'm kinda confused, how would an employer benefit economically from allowing you to smoke pot? Drug testing as it is now is not mandatory for most jobs, so if they wanted to let their employees smoke pot, they would simply not drug test them as it is now. 6) The black market will cease to exist. That will NEVER happen. As stated, if the state can mass produce it, then so can these professionals. Most of your markup already is simply due to the costs of importing an illegal substance. It will be very easy for them to under write the State price + tax. You forget that unlike tobacco and alcohol, marijuana is a ridiculously easy plant to grow, manufacture and sell. I would also say I agree with: I think if it does get legalized, all the good pot would still be illegal. You think they are gonna let you sell poppy/hydro? Lol, I think they will force a potency rule somewhere along the line. 7) But this is where discipline comes in to factor. Laws are not made for individuals, they're made for the masses. As a whole the masses don't have discipline. That is why we're the most obese country in the world. Why not? Alcohol is legal and it is wayy worse than Marijuana. Oh great the age old "Well...well...ALCOHOL IS LEGAL!" argument. I'll tell you this, if you directly switched the social roles of the two drugs, Alcohol is illegal, Marijuana is legal, you could not pass legislation to make alcohol legal today. If America could, they would have kept alcohol illegal, but unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, alcohol is the American drug of choice. Even today, the best estimate, used from a site trying to promote the legalization of Marijuana states that 97 million Americans claim to have TRIED pot in their lives. 69% of Americans actively admit to drinking on a REGULAR basis. That's roughly 209.07 million Americans. Right there presents a problem. Socially drinking is still far more acceptable (as a whole, not in your little clique) than Marijuana. I mean if all of these statistics aren't enough, just look the fact that the social/political impact of 13 years of alcohol prohibition has outweighed 72 years of Marijuana prohibition. As I've stated many times, unless you can create a virtually bulletproof case showing great economic/social/"insert major influence here" gain while also analyzing all negative aspects, you won't get it legalized. As of now there simply is not enough information that cannot be disputed to make that kind of case. Could it become legal in 20 years? Possibly. I'd put more money stating that cigarettes would be illegal in 20 years than pot being legal.
»doc flabby Posted February 27, 2009 Report Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) You forget that unlike tobacco and alcohol, marijuana is a ridiculously easy plant to grow, manufacture and sell.That would be a good argument except both tobacco and alochol are both ridiculously easy to manufacture. You can buy tobacco seeds off the internet and grow the plants...http://www.coffinails.com/faqs.htmlYou can by "home brew" kits to make your own alcohol. And this is just for the amateurs who want to mess about People have been making alcohol for thousands of years...its not a difficult thing to do. A large proportion most of the cost of tobacco and alcohol is TAX. As stated, if the state can mass produce it, then so can these professionals. Most of your markup already is simply due to the costs of importing an illegal substance.However the state/licenced farmers can grow it locally using modern farming methods which allows for very efficent production. Unlicenced operations would obvisouly face heavy fines/criminal charges making it an unviable option. I agree that a $50 flat tax might not work, but if taxed in a similar way to cigarettes and tobacco I can't see why a system like this wouldnt work. If America could, they would have kept alcohol illegal, but unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, alcohol is the American drug of choice.It was legal as was cocaine, cannabis, and many other drugs in the later part of 18th century. And suprisingly society didn't collapse. Once they made alcohol illegal they destroyed the relationship between the state and the people. Prohibition doesn't work, i would have thought america would have learnt that lesson in the 20s. It funded an enormous amount of crime. Al Capone made his money pushing alcohol and agressivily defending his "turf"...and the occasional dodgy batch of moonshine would kill people, i wonder if this sounding familer yet?....theres not much difference between him and modern day drug lords. Edited February 27, 2009 by doc flabby
NBVegita Posted February 27, 2009 Report Posted February 27, 2009 Tobacco and alcohol are more difficult than marijuana to grow/produce. At least of quality. I mean anyone can make a crude alcohol, but that doesn't mean you want to drink it. Vice versa if you manage to get the tobacco to survive infancy you could cultivate it, but in order to make one pack of cigarettes you need a LOT of tobacco and unless you are advanced enough to fire cure it, you're looking at 4-8 weeks just before you can harvest a few cigarettes. Marijuana is a much less volatile plant and it is consumed at a much lower rate than tobacco. However the state/licenced farmers can grow it locally using modern farming methods which allows for very efficent production. Unlicenced operations would obvisouly face heavy fines/criminal charges making it an unviable option. Really because this: "Mecke said Ammiano's proposed bill "would remove all penalties in California law on cultivation, transportation, sale, purchase, possession, or use of marijuana, natural THC, or paraphernalia for persons over the age of 21."" Sounds to me like everyone can grow it. With access so plentiful, even if they required every civilian to have a license for it, how are they to track you? You'd spend that whole billion dollars trying to pay for and enforce your licensing. Yes lots of drugs were legal, now they are not. There will always be crime no matter if you made every illegal substance legal today. The concept that there have been no major social/economic/political/ ect. ramification's of having these drugs illegal for the past 70-100 years just proves that the majority feel that having them illegal is socially acceptable. Also, contrary to popular beliefs, drugs, including marijuana are actually still illegal in the Netherlands.
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