Where is HS going?

[Deathmonger]

I don't get where HS is going.

 

Games typically have some object. TW has base control, EG has flag games and bountying, SWZ has flag control, MG has capture the flag.

 

The object of HS has been to progressively acquire $ in various ways in order to buy increasingly powerful equipment. In the past there have been various ways to do this:

 

- Basic center killing

- Goal scoring (long, long ago)

- Jackpot winning

- Base bountying

- Turret bountying

- Center bountying

- Bounty hunting

 

All of these were at one time more efficient money-makers than vulching in center. Players generally discover and spend their time doing whatever is the most efficient way to make money. I remember a long time ago there were massive ball games in center between teams. Those were a blast. Then it became most efficient to bounty in bases and milk flag games. Turret bountying was another option. Then running around center bountying was best, until nerfed recharge settings, availability of proxed emp, and slower bounty growth made it nearly impossible for runners to get past 500 bty.

 

One-by-one, these forms of gameplay have been removed by reducing rewards or changing items to disable them. For example, nobody turrets in center anymore because you can't build a decent turretting lanc and the bounty reward is gone. Removal of privs removed runwinning, good basing rewards, solo bountying, flanking, and so on.

 

Once base bountying and jackpot growth were removed, players tried bountying in the minibase, creating the minibasing game. Then mini was weakened, and the minibasing turned into a mass tradekilling game.

 

Recently, bountying was turned off altogether. Now, all that's left from the original gameplay is center vulching, making money at $30-$ per kill, or minibase tradekilling, which is more efficient. Since minibase tradekilling is now the most efficient way to make money, that's what players are doing, despite Arnk's consternation.*

 

I'm all for removing the mini, but then all players will have left is center vulching! The items today are way too expensive if that's the only income opportunity that will be left.

 

While the ships and items are more balanced than ever, and there are a lot of interesting new items, most of the gameplay has been wrung out of HS. Maybe you consider turetting or jp milking a form of exploit. Ok. It would be one thing if new gameplay were being introduced to replace old, but that isn't happening.

 

Presently the lowest skill way of playing (button mashing in center) is also the most lucrative. That's a more fundamental issue than ship and item balance.

 

I love the zone and its homage to classic games like Star Control and Elite. That's why I waste so much time on it. Thanks for reading.

 

DM

 

 

* It is in fact more efficient right now to spend 15 mins making a consistent $500/min in mini ($7500) than to spend 10 mins collecting flags, having a 5 min flag game, expending money on reps, bursts, thors, and winning a $3-6K jackpot. Do the math--the players have. If you don't like stupid gameplay that results from your economic system, instead of whining that players are stupid, change the economic incentives.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Deathmonger

[Kilo]

Recently, bountying was turned off altogether.

Cute how people thought that was intentional. There was a mistake when upgrading a certain module which made all instances of bounty in rewards formulas evaluate to 0. It's been fixed and will be online soon.

 

Presently the lowest skill way of playing (button mashing in center) is also the most lucrative. That's a more fundamental issue than ship and item balance.

Ya.

 

* It is in fact more efficient right now to spend 15 mins making a consistent $500/min in mini ($7500) than to spend 10 mins collecting flags, having a 5 min flag game, expending money on reps, bursts, thors, and winning a $3-6K jackpot. Do the math--the players have. If you don't like stupid gameplay that results from your economic system, instead of whining that players are stupid, change the economic incentives.

Obv.

[Dr Brain]

Flagging is our core goal. Things have been removed when they interfere with flagging. There's nothing more to the story. Bountying was leading to long and boring flag games, so it was removed.

 

instead of whining that players are stupid, change the economic incentives.

 

That's why so many of the things in your post were changed: to change the economic incentives...

[Deathmonger]

Thanks for clarifying. No I didn't realize that the bounty situation was unintentional. Maybe the solution is as simple then as juicing up the jackpot rewards. There was a brief period earlier this year where it was giving out crazy amounts; now it's not giving out enough to get people out of center very often, at least under typical population.

 

Obviously privs also factor into this. Small privs right now would probably be trying to win jps if the reward were enough. I know you're thinking about how to handle privs in the future.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Deathmonger

[protocol_]

Before the privs were taken out, the jackpot for winning the fg was around 10k+ for the priv team. I think it was only because pub would be 10v10v6 and the exp of both the pub teams would be greatly higher than the priv team.

 

Now with the priv teams disabled, a fg could be as populated as 15v15 and once one freq cant take over the base in two tries they all spec.

[MWarrior]

The goal of HS is to try and beat my race time, that's definitely a longterm goal though.

[Kilo]

It's absolutely hilarious how now we reward losers with money too-- and they still ragequit when they get killed out of the base.

[protocol_]

It's absolutely hilarious how now we reward losers with money too-- and they still ragequit when they get killed out of the base.

I found it funny at first, but then aggravated when it happened over and over again. But people are greedy and the mindset for most of the players in HS is that if they aren't going to win the full jackpot they might as well sabotage it for the others.

Edited January 29, 2009 by protocol_

[Emit]

it's all about fg win/loss ratio

[rootbear75]

idea: Make the Jackpot prize a random amount.

 

Do your reward calculations, than multiply that by random(50% - 200%) (or some variation)

might make things more interesting.

[Stibbymicto]

idea: Make the Jackpot prize a random amount.

 

Do your reward calculations, than multiply that by random(50% - 200%) (or some variation)

might make things more interesting.

Sounds good.

That or just go back to the orginal way jackpots worked.

 

Much smoother that way, and couldnt be ruined by speccing jerks.

[Suicide_Run]

Random JP sounds good but lets not forget HS has a ton of whiners so if people get lower % of the jp after winning a big flag game, its gonna be a shitstorm.

[Gar]

None of this really matters anymore. The population is too low to really support any activity other than center vulching. Basing may happen in specific instances, but the chance it's happening while any given player has time to play is low.

[CRe]

None of this really matters anymore. The population is too low to really support any activity other than center vulching. Basing may happen in specific instances, but the chance it's happening while any given player has time to play is low.

 

There was like a 13v13 last night.

[Corey]

None of this really matters anymore. The population is too low to really support any activity other than center vulching. Basing may happen in specific instances, but the chance it's happening while any given player has time to play is low.

This is the kind of attitude that is killing HyperSpace.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

I am sure that if the jackpot is restored, basing will come back to life in Hyperspace. Note that people love winning high jackpots, and the result is regular basing everytime the jackpot increases to a irresistable level.. Also note that:

• Bountying is gone. Stalling the flag game for THAT reason won't happen anymore.
  
• Flags can't all be held by one person. Higher difficulty to runwin just from that. Also we have lots of flags that must be collected.
  
• Privs are gone. All runwinning will have to be done on your favorite public frequency.
  
• In all likehood, the factors add up to more profit in center flights than getting your divided jackpot that you somehow run won, despite the odds.
  

Of course, this course of action brings up a certain major issue: lengthy flag games due to rising jackpot. I don't remember if lengthy games bothered me that much, but if it really was a problem of the past then a possibility is to restrict the maximum jackpot. 100k-200k for example. And then, if flag games would still be better off shorter than that, increasing the rate the jackpot goes up, still using a maximum limit, will encourage players to attempt to win that specific flag game before the maximum limit is reached. With a balance, this could mean the desirable shorter flag game yet with the major incentive that a respectable jackpot brings. Thats just an idea I had, here.

[Gar]

There was like a 13v13 last night

Like I told Arnk, the response given every time someone mentions lack of basing is that 'there was basing last night'. Sorry, but you guys need to realize that one basing game one time a night does not constitute a defense. The less chance that basing is happening each time a given player logs on, means the greater chance that player won't bother logging on at all. Basing is happening. NOT ENOUGH BASING is happening.

 

This is the kind of attitude that is killing HyperSpace.

So you admit HyperSpace is being killed. We can disagree on the causes, but action needs to be taken.

[Kilo]

What I've noticed is that basing gets large and continuous when Gar isn't around, like the past 2 hours. I think you know what action needs to be taken, mods.

[Gar]

I specifically addressed how the 'basing happening at all' argument is not a defense against the fact that it is not happening enough, yet Arnk responds with it anyway.

[Kilo]

No I responded with the Gar is obviously the cause of all of our problems argument I can't believe that wasn't obvious

[Corey]

This is the kind of attitude that is killing HyperSpace.

So you admit HyperSpace is being killed. We can disagree on the causes, but action needs to be taken.

And this, you really are way more stupid then you portray yourself.

[Posse Slash]

All that is needed is for people to realize you make more money off the real BASING than winning.

There will always be rushers trying to get in, repelling and bursting, and there will always be someone to kill those rushers.

 

What I think would be cool tho is the idea of a time limit, like the defending freq has like 10 minutes on them to win the fg, if they dont the other freq gets to defend, which would result in probably more fun since everyone gets a chance on winning and then you dont have to swap freqs if you want to rush, just wait out the limit.

[Gar]

like the defending freq has like 10 minutes on them to win the flag game

 

The main problem with the ten minute limit is, nobody would want to sit out of the action for 5 minutes to drop a third of the flags. If I had control and a team had 10 minutes to win, I'd experiment with a 1 or 2 flag carrying max, but a drop timer of 30 seconds. I believe this would demand a higher level of skill and team coordination. It would also allow people to drop OR get back to the action as quick as they like.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Gar

[Emit]

The main problem is, nobody wants to sit out of the action for 5 minutes to drop a third of the flags. If I had control, I'd experiment with a 1 or 2 flag carrying max, but a drop timer of 30 seconds. I believe this would demand a higher level of skill and team coordination. It would also allow people to drop OR get back to the action as quick as they like.

 

whew* luckily you're not then.

[Gar]

Emit, don't talk. The Internet has enough retards, ty.