'Safest' seat remarks get Muslim family kicked off plane

[ESCANDAL0SA]

lmaooo@acting black. i've never acted "black" in my life, will NEVER marry a black guy, never gotten along with black girls, nor have i ever wanted to be black. i'm happy with what i am, kthnx. but that's not the topic here, now is it?

 

i never said this muslim family was obligated to shut their mouth. all i said was... they open their mouths and they know what they're getting themselves into, so why do it? no, they don't have to be quiet. go ahead, talk about whatever you want. but don't complain when ignorant people take it the wrong way. and why the hell am i repeating the same thing over and over again? lol. i don't care if you don't agree with my opinion. it's just that... MY FUCKING OPINION.

[CRe]

lmaooo@acting black. i've never acted "black" in my life, will NEVER marry a black guy, never gotten along with black girls, nor have i ever wanted to be black. i'm happy with what i am, kthnx. but that's not the topic here, now is it?

 

i never said this muslim family was obligated to shut their mouth. all i said was... they open their mouths and they know what they're getting themselves into, so why do it? no, they don't have to be quiet. go ahead, talk about whatever you want. but don't complain when ignorant people take it the wrong way. and why the hell am i repeating the same thing over and over again? lol. i don't care if you don't agree with my opinion. it's just that... MY FUCKING OPINION.

 

Your not getting the point. They were having an average family conversation. They didn't probably think of what they were getting themselves into nor they mentioned any terrorism activity.

[AstroProdigy]

racism still exists' date=' they didn't do anything to change it. they will always be stereotyped when it comes to planes, bombs, etc.[/quote']

if they had been more aware of their words and the situation they were in and kept their mouths shut...

It's this mentality that worries me. This isn't at all what this country was built on nor does it have any place in a liberal democracy.

 

i don't care if you don't agree with my opinion. it's just that... MY FUCKING OPINION.

Sure it is, but that doesn't mean it gets to be just as valid as his. While he bases his opinion on the bigger picture you base yours on a backwards, selfish approach that has been proven wrong over and over again in history.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

first, how is my opinion based on a "selfish" approach? LOL. this doesn't surprise me because everything i've ever said, you have all loved to disagree with me anyway, which is pretty funny.

 

how could they NOT know that their comments would be taken the wrong way? it's called COMMON SENSE.

 

like thunderjam mentioned earlier... if you were a white, suburban kid walking through the projects and you see a big group of black people, would you talk about how disgusting weaves are? LOL. i don't think any of you would have enough courage to do that. talking about weaves shouldn't offend them in any way, right? it's not directing any violence towards black people, but i can tell you one thing, you'd get fucked up for saying it. therefore, you still have to be aware of the situation you're in and what you say. i bet none of you, in that situation, would preach on and on about "stand up for freedom of speech and racism"... you'd shit your pants.

[Aceflyer]

like thunderjam mentioned earlier... if you were a white, suburban kid walking through the projects and you see a big group of black people, would you talk about how disgusting weaves are? LOL. i don't think any of you would have enough courage to do that. talking about weaves shouldn't offend them in any way, right? it's not directing any violence towards black people, but i can tell you one thing, you'd get fucked up for saying it. therefore, you still have to be aware of the situation you're in and what you say. i bet none of you, in that situation, would preach on and on about "stand up for freedom of speech and racism"... you'd shit your pants.

 

Yep. There's standing up for unalienable rights, and then there's blatant stupidity. I'm all for standing up for unalienable rights, but blatant stupidity doesn't really serve anyone's best interests.

[NBVegita]

the family chose to practice their right to freedom of speech and they spoke up. where did that get them? racism still exists, they didn't do anything to change it. they will always be stereotyped when it comes to planes, bombs, etc. they were interrogated, kicked off the plane, AND were not allowed to book a next possible flight... it only caused them more problems.

 

Actually it's most likely going to ensure their early retirement as they at this time are almost certainly going to sue the airlines and if they do, will without a doubt win.

 

Again the only thing I really view as wrong in this entire situation is that after the FBI cleared them the airline wouldn't book them another flight. They had the right to speak about safety on a plane, the passengers had a right to report it as suspicious, the airline had a right to investigate them, but once the FBI cleared them, the airline had no right to not book them a flight.

 

Pretty simple concept.

[Bak]

won't the free market end segregation?

 

I mean, if airtran won't let them fly won't they just get a flight with a different company?

[AstroProdigy]

If a suburban white kid is walking through the projects and thugs attack him that's criminals doing something wrong which you can prosecute against, but then again they're criminals. A more comparable scenario is a white kid in the projects being harassed by black cops. That needs to be made an example of. The selfish part of your whole argument as that we should all just think for ourselves in the short term and not care about the repercussions. If there were clear discrimination going on against me first I'd try to reason and then if the people are so racist they continue then I should and would do something about it.

[SeVeR]

Even if LOSA doesn't realise it, i think she's a very selfish person. If making a big deal out of racial prejudice is too troublesome in the "short-term" then society will never learn and other people will continue to see the same racial prejudice against them. It's not about teaching the world that you personally feel hurt by racist comments, it's about teaching the world that these comments will hurt others too. We know being intolerant of racism works; we would still be using blacks as slaves if we didn't, and you LOSA wouldn't enjoy such a free lifestyle. You said yourself that you don't like the way some border guards acted. Well there are probably thousands of other people who experience the same thing, and until someone makes a big deal out of it, that will likely never change.

[FMBI]

Even if LOSA doesn't realise it, i think she's a very selfish person. If making a big deal out of racial prejudice is too troublesome in the "short-term" then society will never learn and other people will continue to see the same racial prejudice against them. It's not about teaching the world that you personally feel hurt by racist comments, it's about teaching the world that these comments will hurt others too. We know being intolerant of racism works; we would still be using blacks as slaves if we didn't, and you LOSA wouldn't enjoy such a free lifestyle. You said yourself that you don't like the way some border guards acted. Well there are probably thousands of other people who experience the same thing, and until someone makes a big deal out of it, that will likely never change.

 

 

Hold your fricking horses. Somebody needs to make a big deal out of it, yes, but that doesn't mean that she has to be the one to do it. While in the long run this policy can result in things being endlessly pushed back (1866-1960s, anyone?), it's pointless to start a minority/majority war unless you have at least some power brokers from the majority on your side - and while it's likely that a lot of bleeding hearts will come out of the closet during the Obama years, during the course of the Bush presidency, Lou Dobbs and his ilk have enjoyed ascendancy. So while you can take the macro view (as I've been doing in other posts) and say that somebody needs to stick their ass out, that doesn't mean you can accuse someone from the minority of failing personally just because they aren't doing it.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

i'm sure out of the "thousands" of people who experienced what i experienced at the border, at least one, or a few, made a big deal out of it. did that do anything? no, because it happened to me. wtf is making a big deal out of what happened at the border gonna do for me? ummm, let's see... a $300 fine + any other shit they wanted to pin on me. remember, it's THEM against me. why would i wanna put myself in more trouble to speak up and become an advocate? i just don't care. lol. i just didn't say anything and i went on my way. saying something would've never made a difference.

 

ok, yes, i'm a selfish person because i don't care to fight for other peoples' rights... sorry, i couldn't sit there after reading about this muslim family, and think of a solution to prevent this type of racism from ever happening again, and wasting my time that i could be using to work and support my son, wasting time that i could be spending with my son and watching him grow. yep, i'm selfish. because i'm SURE, that if i start making a big deal out of it, SOMETHING will happen, because i have the power, right? lmao, you guys are nothing but a joke.

[Incomplete]

Hmm, I skimmed through this topic. I read about it in the paper.

 

I actually agree with LOSA.

 

If they were allowed on the plane and were actually terrorists then the airline would have got screwed over for not acting upon it when they had the chance. It's not worth the risk is it?

 

Also why would you ask where the safest seat on a plane is? If the plane crashed everybody dies. No seat is any safer than the other really.

 

Stereotypes are around ladies and gentlemen and they always will be. You know in the back of your mind that if you were on a plane and were looking for someone who looked suspicious then you would be looking for someone who might be Muslim. Just like you would expect alot of ASBOs to wear hoodies, just like you would expect builders to whistle at random women who walk by and so on.

 

In the end I found this story funny anyway.

[Drake7707]

Racism and stereotyping is in our nature anyway. Our instincts haven't evolved as fast as our brain and our mammal instincts still say that we should group together and don't trust outsiders (not until you know them better).

 

There will always be conflicts between groups, tribes, nations,... that think differently

[SeVeR]

Hold your fricking horses. Somebody needs to make a big deal out of it' date=' yes, but that doesn't mean that she has to be the one to do it.[/quote'] Agreed, but it's still selfish not to. Nothing wrong with being selfish by the way, so hold your own horses because I'm not being particularly critical here. I'm very selfish in some ways.

 

that doesn't mean you can accuse someone from the minority of failing personally just because they aren't doing it.

That's exactly what i wasn't saying. She was failing her community' date=' not herself.

 

i'm sure out of the "thousands" of people who experienced what i experienced at the border' date=' at least one, or a few, made a big deal out of it. did that do anything? no, because it happened to me. wtf is making a big deal out of what happened at the border gonna do for me? ummm, let's see... a $300 fine + any other shit they wanted to pin on me. remember, it's THEM against me. why would i wanna put myself in more trouble to speak up and become an advocate? i just don't care. lol. i just didn't say anything and i went on my way. saying something would've never made a difference.[/quote'] Your specific example isn't a good one. I would have actually done the same as you. I was hoping you would take it as an analogy for the present topic of discussion.

Edited January 14, 2009 by SeVeR

[Samapico]

Also why would you ask where the safest seat on a plane is? If the plane crashed everybody dies. No seat is any safer than the other really.

Wrong

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/ai...ce/4219452.html

 

 

Also, as someone else said, sure they had a right to investigate them... But the FBI cleared them and the company still wouldn't let them on board. I think when the FBI says someone is not a terrorist after investigating him, it's pretty stupid to not believe them.

[Incomplete]

But then the FBI aren't always right. If they were so shit hot on things then terrorism wouldn't be so bad.

 

And I still say there is no safe or safer seat on a plane if it crashes.

[AstroProdigy]

But then the FBI aren't always right. If they were so shit hot on things then terrorism wouldn't be so bad.

 

And I still say there is no safe or safer seat on a plane if it crashes.

 

Sure thing why do we even allow Muslims to live among us? You never know no one ever knows anything for sure if they did then there wouldn't ever be surprises. And I still say something that's just been proven wrong conclusively is still correct because I don't want to admit I'm wrong. I noticed you only skimmed through the topic since you have a complete disregard for anything anyone else says.

[Aceflyer]

Also why would you ask where the safest seat on a plane is? If the plane crashed everybody dies. No seat is any safer than the other really.

Wrong

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/ai...ce/4219452.html

 

 

Also, as someone else said, sure they had a right to investigate them... But the FBI cleared them and the company still wouldn't let them on board. I think when the FBI says someone is not a terrorist after investigating him, it's pretty stupid to not believe them.

 

Precisely. As I said earlier in this thread,

 

My take on this is as follows:

 

1) The family didn't do anything wrong by talking about the 'safest' seat on the plane.

2) The airline didn't do anything wrong by investigating what was reported as a possible security threat.

3) The FBI didn't do anything wrong by investigating what was reported as a possible security threat.

4) The airline did err in not immediately allowing the family to fly on their planes after the family was cleared by the FBI.

 

There was no legitimate reason for the airline to not immediately allow the family to fly on their planes after said family was cleared by the authorities (in this case, the FBI).

[Incomplete]

Sure thing why do we even allow Muslims to live among us? You never know no one ever knows anything for sure if they did then there wouldn't ever be surprises.

Therefor is was a fine desision to take the Muslims off the plane. When they were cleared by the FBI and the airline still didn't let them on the next plane they made the correct decision. Think about it, you have say 100 people on a plane that you own, you want to put their lives in danger and risk losing a plane for the sake of a few people? All that should have happened was they get angry, fly on another airline so the company only lose a few passangers. Shit happens, they should just deal with it. I would rather fly with an airline like that rather than an airline that lets anybody on.

 

And I still say something that's just been proven wrong conclusively is still correct because I don't want to admit I'm wrong. I noticed you only skimmed through the topic since you have a complete disregard for anything anyone else says.

 

It's not a disregard for what anyone else says. I skimmed through the topic because I didn't have the time to read it all. Most of it is LOSA arguing with people anyway.

[»Lynx]

Choice of Airline is beside the point here, and the simple facts are that they can't lawfully just say to a bunch of Muslims that they're not allowed on the flight. From my perspective there are various levels of wrong here.

 

Firstly, the Muslim family were having a conversation about plane security. Maybe that wasn't the best idea, however I still am on their side that they had every right to have that conversation.

 

Secondly, the plane shouldn't have immediately kicked them from the plane just because a few (idiot) passengers complained about them, but should have questioned them first and then chose a better option (switching seats, etc). If the airline needs to eject every person from a plane for risks of safety, then their whole security system (which is heavily over-funded) is incredibly flawed.

 

Thirdly, the Airline should not only have allowed them onto the next *immediate flight, but should have compensated the family heavily for the amount of trauma they would have undergone in this matter. They were basically labeled terrorists in front of a plane of (however many hundred people) and then when cleared by *the correct authorities but were still labeled terrorists by that Airline as they were not allowed on following flights.

 

If anything, this is clear textbook prejudice toward a certain group of people, and not only should heads roll, I wish the best of luck to the family in taking that Airline to court and ass-raping their funding.

 

Also, @Root: Only in America

 

-L

[ESCANDAL0SA]

one of the reasons i laughed is because this shit only happens in America. hence, why this muslim family should have put more thought into what they were going to talk about out loud. people in Canada are less stereotypical and racist because we're more multicultural.

[AstroProdigy]

Sure thing why do we even allow Muslims to live among us? You never know no one ever knows anything for sure if they did then there wouldn't ever be surprises.

Therefor is was a fine desision to take the Muslims off the plane. When they were cleared by the FBI and the airline still didn't let them on the next plane they made the correct decision. Think about it, you have say 100 people on a plane that you own, you want to put their lives in danger and risk losing a plane for the sake of a few people? All that should have happened was they get angry, fly on another airline so the company only lose a few passangers. Shit happens, they should just deal with it. I would rather fly with an airline like that rather than an airline that lets anybody on.

You do understand sarcasm right? Shit happens is not a good excuse for discrimination.

 

And I still say something that's just been proven wrong conclusively is still correct because I don't want to admit I'm wrong. I noticed you only skimmed through the topic since you have a complete disregard for anything anyone else says.

 

It's not a disregard for what anyone else says. I skimmed through the topic because I didn't have the time to read it all. Most of it is LOSA arguing with people anyway.

No you just got clearly proven wrong on your argument that there's no safer place on a plane and responded by saying basically "sure there's facts, but I'll believe whatever I want anyway".

[Incomplete]

You do understand sarcasm right? Shit happens is not a good excuse for discrimination.

Discrimination happens everywhere. We live in a world where you are judged by other people

 

No you just got clearly proven wrong on your argument that there's no safer place on a plane and responded by saying basically "sure there's facts, but I'll believe whatever I want anyway".

 

Yeah I got proved wrong, I can admit that but the difference in the chances of surviving aren't that great. It's no way near enough to make me think about changing where I sit or asking where the safest seat is. However this argument is irrelevent. A muslim asked about the safest place on the plane, this alone aroused enough suspicion for someone to complain. The airline had no other alternative but to investigate.

 

And there is still no disregard for what other people have said, after all I am replying to you.

[Bak]

the plane shouldn't have immediately kicked them from the plane just because a few (idiot) passengers complained about them, but should have questioned them first and then chose a better option (switching seats, etc).

^ i loled

 

of course the policy is to err on the side of caution. one passenger suspects another is a terrorist for reason X... you're honestly saying we should trust the discretion of the flight attendent that received the report on whether to take the claim seriously?

[ESCANDAL0SA]

i wonder what everybody would be saying if these complaints were made by other passengers, and were ignored, and then the plane got hijacked or was blown up by these muslims.