'Safest' seat remarks get Muslim family kicked off plane

[Drake7707]

This reminds me of all those asian people that were arrested in world war II. A lot of innocent ppl were put under surveillance and put into jail back then.

 

 

Apparently USA still stinks as much as it did back then

[ESCANDAL0SA]

well you guys have your opinions and i have mine.

 

i just think Muslims are aware of the increased racism against them and it's common sense... if you're gonna discuss something like that, you know that someone is bound to hear and knowing that it's America, you know they're gonna be racist. so, why give them a reason to form associations and cause problems?

 

maybe it's the way we grow up. i grew up being taught to shut my damn mouth and never give anyone a reason to incriminate me or snitch on me to authorities. and other people grow up with the whole "freedom of speech" mentality.

 

let's agree to disagree, because this isn't gonna go anywhere. you all know you won't change my mind or opinion so why bother.

 

and i don't care about any racism, sexism going on because i really have better things to worry about. i laughed when i read this story. i don't have time to sit there, get mad, go picket outside of the airline or anything. i have a life to live, i have a son to take care of... i don't care about anything or anyone else. call me selfish

[SeVeR]

i grew up being taught to shut my damn mouth and never give anyone a reason to incriminate me or snitch on me to authorities.

You must be happy to live this way based on your opinions about freedom of speech. We've come a long way in fifty years because we've been intolerant of prejudiced remarks. You seem happy to tolerate it, and with that attitude you'd be the one to suffer at the end of the day.

[Aceflyer]

This reminds me of all those asian people that were arrested in world war II. A lot of innocent ppl were put under surveillance and put into jail back then.

 

 

Apparently USA still stinks as much as it did back then

 

Not quite as much, the WWII-era forcible relocation and internment of over 60,000 U.S. citizens of Japanese descent to "War Relocation Camps" is like a whole order of magnitude more severe and wrong than this relatively minor and isolated incident. The former involved broad, extensive government action against a large group of people based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership;" the latter involved short-lived action against a few folks by some private airline officials.

 

But I think we all already knew this.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

i grew up being taught to shut my damn mouth and never give anyone a reason to incriminate me or snitch on me to authorities.

You must be happy to live this way based on your opinions about freedom of speech. We've come a long way in fifty years because we've been intolerant of prejudiced remarks. You seem happy to tolerate it, and with that attitude you'd be the one to suffer at the end of the day.

 

 

i tolerate it especially if it doesn't involve me and if it could've been avoided. if, this family was talking about fruits or something and they were kicked off the plane, then i'd probably react differently, but i still wouldn't care too much about it. how do i suffer at the end of the day? lol. i'm fine at the end of the day. i know i have a right to freedom of speech and trust me, i say what i want when i want, but i also know when to shut my mouth.

 

and you have not had the kind of experience i've had with authorities, which is why you're reacting differently to how this situation could've been avoided. i just drove from toronto to florida recently, and at the border, i was searched like crazy. they made a big deal about me bringing in PEARS from walmart, saying that pears from mexico could be carrying diseases. i'm not even mexican and the pears were from walmart, he only said that because i'm hispanic. you don't know how badly i wanted to snap, especially because our car wasn't even supposed to be checked, we were cleared to go. but i didn't say anything to him, i just let him take the pears and throw them in the garbage and i kept it moving. if i would've said more, i know they would've given me a harder time. that's where "shut your damn mouth" comes in lol.

Edited January 7, 2009 by L0SA

[Machu]

I found this incident to be beyond disturbing. Plus, the airline wouldn't let them go on any flights, even after "apologizing". That's sick.

 

ur retarded..

 

u dont go on an airplane a joke about a bomb going off

 

send them to guantanamo

[ThunderJam]

Ok, while I am not taking LOSA side, I think you guys are being a lil harsh on a few of her statements. While the family's discussion was a normal discussion, her statement that people need to be careful what they say is completely logical. You all try to say its bad by comparing it to other situations where minorities are wrongs for saying things. Please consider:

 

A white guy is alone in a particularly bad-reputed ghetto. The white guy would be dumb to say certain things that could, even if only by the most extreme inferences, be taken as some sort of racial statement.

 

The white man is in an environment that has certain predispositions towards his demographic/ethnic type. It is unjust, but it is fact. Although there is freedom of speech, in a situation where negative action can be taken against him for saying things, he must watch what he says.

 

While it is unfortunate that this is the reality, it is the reality nonetheless, and therefore it is completely logical for people to guard themselves against what is established. Again, I am not saying that what the muslims said was beyond the scope of normal, and that it was something they should have thought might trigger alarm... I am just saying losa's generalization that muslims in that situation need to be aware, is very very valid.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

thunderjam, thank you.

 

at least SOMEONE understands what i'm saying.

[FMBI]

TJ, the reason I brought up all the other examples was because those were things that used to be "bad" but are now recognized as normal. Essentially, we (or I, at least) are arguing for the rule of law and reason to prevail over temporary "this is the way it is" measures that tend to lead to mob rule and stripping of the rights of minorities.

 

Also, we (or, again, at least I) have conceded in the course of the argument that people in certain situations should be careful what they say if it involves something truly illegal - however, if, as in this case, the statements are not only legal but entirely innocuous, and observers, through their own racism and bias, decide to misuse the system for their own ends, then there is absolutely no justification for minorities keeping silent about their mistreatment. A spectacular lawsuit, a couple of new foundations, and a powerful lobbyist movement tend to arise from the more evident cases, and rightly so - otherwise, there is no reason to believe that treatment of the affected minority will be any different in the future. Good things don't "happen" by themselves - anti-racism requires a dual effort from the educated portion of the enfranchised / dominant majority and the educated and/or affected minority.

 

 

I don't know where you two are getting the idea that I'm some starry-eyed idealist who doesn't believe that racism still exists - I've engaged in many arguments with people who do believe that (and who, shortly after giving up the argument, make some racist joke to "lighten the mood", generally), and I'm sick of it. That's why I'm taking the position of the minority here, and in general.

 

 

Also, according to the good ole triplets, sociology, psychology, and anthropology, since I am of the dominant majority, I can never really personally understand what you go through, LOSA. However, thanks to the same science, I can impartially point out "solutions" - the question is whether my solution makes any sense. Obviously, I think it does, or I wouldn't be harassing you about it. So, forgive my zealousness. And my propensity for self-gratification via the use of oversized words. But may it be here recorded that I think my avatar looks better than yours. :\

[Machu]

you truly have to be a democrat to defend a muslim family who says

 

"Wheres the safest seat incase a bomb goes off."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen Colbert, "I say we dip illegals in a flourescent vat, so, at night we can see them crossing the border."

Edited January 7, 2009 by Machu

[CRe]

I don't think they mentioned anything about a bomb

[SeVeR]

Sigh this Machu guy is such a tard.

[Samapico]

Nowhere does it says they were talking about a bomb going off... Talking about the safety of seats is a very valid discussion, especially in a plane because it does depend on where you sit. It's just the same as when in a bus, either a school bus or a city bus... I remember talking about how the seats are not really safe.

 

Sigh this Machu guy is such a tard.

agreed

[PoLiX]

Machu banned from World Discussion forum...

 

This reminds me of all those asian people that were arrested in world war II. A lot of innocent ppl were put under surveillance and put into jail back then.

 

Not quite Jail, internment (sp?) camps... Kinda like the ones in Germany, just without the testing and killing. And also when they we're freed they we're treated like shit still.

[ThunderJam]

That seems something awfully small to ban him for..

 

I'm sure every person who has posted in this thread has said something worse before.

[FMBI]

That seems something awfully small to ban him for..

 

I'm sure every person who has posted in this thread has said something worse before.

 

 

He did say something worse, several times, in several threads. It's just that his posts were deleted.

 

It's just that he and I have a longstanding in-game ideological feud, and he decided to drag it on to the forums for some reason. :\

[PoLiX]

Look through all his posts... Well, you can't look at all of them since not admin, but in his profile you should be able to see last 5 posts and topics. Show me one that had any worth.

 

Really I'd honestly just ban him from SSForum, but he'd probably be one of the ones to re-register another name and be even more annoying.

 

-Back to Topic-

[Dav]

you do realize that racism will always exist, along with discrimination and stereotypes, right? it's a part of life. i've accepted it.

 

racism may not always exist. Granted we still have it in the modern world, no one will argue with that, but as a trend it seems to be reducing as society becomes more liberal.

 

Stereotyping is a severe problem in society and IMO something that shouldnt be accepted at all. Sterotypes are often borne by attributing the negative actions of the minority within a community to the community as a whole. Also you would probably find that sterotyping is often the basis for a lot of racism. It is something that we will probably get get rid of, but something that should not be accepted.

 

Back to the topic in hand. Bacause the family here was asian, they were steryotyped and when these comments were made people jumped to conclusions. I would be willing to bet that if a white, western family made the comments nothing would have happend.

[SeVeR]

I think LOSA is saying that racism will always exist. I agree it will; but you have to be pretty ignorant of 20th century history to believe that being intolerant of racism won't change anything. We haven't accepted racist people in the last hundred years and look how much we've progressed. These Muslims were doing the world a favour by exposing this racial prejudice that we all know is bubbling close to the surface at this moment in history. Now, with such realisation of the nonsense of it all, change will follow.

[AstroProdigy]

There's two points I want to make here.

 

First is that in the short term keeping your mouth shut works, but oftentimes in the long term it just delays a real solution. If you look at the pre Civil rights and post Civil War era there were two conflicting ideas about what black people should do between DEB Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. Du Bois promoted what was in effect realized in the Civil Rights era that you need to protest and try to bring about change more rapidly whereas Booker T. Washington wanted a very gradual change brought about through hard work. What happened before the Civil Rights Era is that Washington's approach failed to make any progress for blacks in the south. The same applies here. As long as Muslims just take the racist misconceptions of them and try to stay out of trouble things won't change. We need as a society in the long term to stop seeing them as terrorists. The "War on Terror" won't end until the Muslim world is no longer poor which will take decades and until then "keeping your head down" won't solve anything for Muslim Americans.

 

Second is just what Sever said in his last post. Just because racism will always exist that's no reason to accept it and not be constantly vigilante about changing it. That's quitters talk and if everyone followed that in the civil rights era then it wouldn't have happened at all. Politics isn't about reaching lofty goals like ending poverty or racism or crime. It's about getting as close as humanly possible.

[Mage+]

i do agree it wasnt the best choice of words while on an airplane

[ThunderJam]

Astro and sever: your points, that the long-term affect of this muslim families action is good, is valid.

 

That still means they need to be aware that it has other SHORT-TERM consequences in addition. That's all.

 

I guess its one or the other: be quiet and reap the short term benefit, but you still deal with unfair stereotyping, OR speak up to act against the trend of stereotyping but be ready for the short term consequences. Can't expect the best of both worlds though.

Edited January 8, 2009 by ThunderJam

[Mage+]

agree'd

[ESCANDAL0SA]

you talk about short-term and long-term effects of reacting to this situation.

 

well, look at it.

 

the family chose to practice their right to freedom of speech and they spoke up. where did that get them? racism still exists, they didn't do anything to change it. they will always be stereotyped when it comes to planes, bombs, etc. they were interrogated, kicked off the plane, AND were not allowed to book a next possible flight... it only caused them more problems.

 

if they had been more aware of their words and the situation they were in and kept their mouths shut... racism, stereotypes, etc., would still exist. no one would take their words the wrong way and report them. they would still be on the plane. they would've arrived at their destination.

 

i, personally, would rather avoid all that hassle caused by a simple discussion, and talk about it another time.

[Cancer+]

See, some people like change in this world. Some people arent content with having to "shut their mouth" and scoot by in life. They shouldn't have to. They are people too.

 

If it was up to your mentality, we would still have slaves and you wouldn't be able to act black.

 

Actually, if it was up to your mentality, we would be fucking british.