'Safest' seat remarks get Muslim family kicked off plane

[CRe]

A Muslim family removed from an airliner Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation say AirTran officials refused to rebook them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.

 

Full article - http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html

[Bak]

airtran has since changed their stance:

 

AirTran Airways late Thursday said they acted properly and that the family was offered full refunds and can fly with AirTran again.

 

I think if another customer reports someone as suspicious they are required to take them off the plane and do an interview.

[FMBI]

I found this incident to be beyond disturbing. Plus, the airline wouldn't let them go on any flights, even after "apologizing". That's sick.

[CRe]

It is disturbing. Even after the FBI cleared them out they were not allowed on the plane still and not on the next flight either.

[Bak]

So you're saying they delayed the plane for the FBI to do the interview? source?

[»Lynx]

I don't know anything about this, but I think he was saying that they weren't allowed on the flight that they had booked, or the next available flight.

 

It's pretty sick, but some people can be real idiots.

 

-L

[Bak]

someone reported that they suspected they might be terrorists

airtran did not want to allow suspected terrorists to fly on their planes

 

related, what do you think the do not fly list is? it's not an arrest-on-sight list of known terrorists, it's a list of suspected terrorists.

 

Plus, the airline wouldn't let them go on any flights, even after "apologizing".

AirTran Airways late Thursday said they acted properly and that the family was offered full refunds and can fly with AirTran again.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

just a question... what do you expect if you're Muslim and talking about the SAFEST place to sit on a plane, knowing that discrimination and racism still exists, even more after 9/11? i think they were asking for it. i'm sure they got checked like crazy going through security. they shouldn't have been talking about things that could be used against them and just boarded the flight quietly.

[»Lynx]

... I can't believe you just tried to rationalise one of the most absurd decisions made this month. Going by your logic:

• Muslims can't talk about the safest seat on an Airplane
  
• Muslims should always be thinking about what's going to be used against them while boarding planes
  

I just sincerely hope that the gentleman who's time was wasted in this show of public humiliation takes up a civil rights case against this very poorly administered unprofessional airline.

 

-L

[ESCANDAL0SA]

i'm not trying to rationalize anything. i never said the airline was right. i'm just saying... Muslims are aware of the discrimination against them. so, why put yourself in a position like that by talking about an airplane and where the safest place to sit is. people are automatically gonna make associations with those kind of remarks, and you can't control how people think, so you might as well shut the hell up and save yourself the trouble.

[CRe]

Most people don't think before they talk. They were just having an average talk.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

and that's the problem. people need to think before they talk. in reality, they should be allowed to have that discussion, but that's not how it works.

[FMBI]

and that's the problem. people need to think before they talk. in reality, they should be allowed to have that discussion, but that's not how it works.

 

Let's use your argument in relation to another demographic group :

 

 

Black men should know better than to talk to white women - after all, some people might get the wrong idea.

 

 

You have some serious culpability issues. o_O

[NBVegita]

This isn't very common but I agree completely with Fin.

[SeVeR]

yea lets have some freedom of speech please.

[Aceflyer]

yea lets have some freedom of speech please.

 

Hate to say this, but freedom of speech isn't absolute. Remember the old 'fire in a crowded theater' case?

 

My take on this is as follows:

 

1) The family didn't do anything wrong by talking about the 'safest' seat on the plane.

2) The airline didn't do anything wrong by investigating what was reported as a possible security threat.

3) The FBI didn't do anything wrong by investigating what was reported as a possible security threat.

4) The airline did err in not immediately allowing the family to fly on their planes after the family was cleared by the FBI.

[SeVeR]

I agree with your take.

 

Shouting fire in a crowded theatre puts people's lives in danger. Talking about what seats are safe does not put lives in danger. So lets have some freedom of speech for the Muslims in this LOSA, they did nothing wrong with their remarks.. the people at fault are the dumbasses who reported them to the airline. Those dumbasses are also entitled to their freedom of speech, they're also entitled to a good punch in the face.

Edited January 5, 2009 by SeVeR

[CRe]

and that's the problem. people need to think before they talk. in reality, they should be allowed to have that discussion, but that's not how it works.

 

Honestly do you really think before you speak?

 

I agree with Sever and Aceflyer.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

"Black men should know better than to talk to white women - after all, some people might get the wrong idea."

what kind of a stupid ass comparison is that?

 

lol.. to be honest, i don't give two shits about this situation. it doesn't affect me in any way, i find it rather funny. because it's true... why the hell would you talk about THAT in a damn plane, KNOWING that people will take it seriously? where's the common sense? i don't care about this "freedom of speech" shit because it doesn't matter. yes, they have that right but if i was Muslim, i'd think before i speak, and i wouldn't mention that for other people to hear. that's just like walking into a plane with a turban on your head and saying "hehehehehe people are going to die today"... how the hell do you expect people to react?

 

it's like me at customs, talking openly about cocaine or crack. they're gonna think... hmmm, hispanic and drugs. link? and they're gonna search me. see, i KNOW that, which is why i'd never say anything stupid like that.

[FMBI]

"Black men should know better than to talk to white women - after all, some people might get the wrong idea."

what kind of a stupid ass comparison is that?

 

lol.. to be honest, i don't give two shits about this situation. it doesn't affect me in any way, i find it rather funny. because it's true... why the hell would you talk about THAT in a damn plane, KNOWING that people will take it seriously? where's the common sense? i don't care about this "freedom of speech" shit because it doesn't matter. yes, they have that right but if i was Muslim, i'd think before i speak, and i wouldn't mention that for other people to hear. that's just like walking into a plane with a turban on your head and saying "hehehehehe people are going to die today"... how the hell do you expect people to react?

 

it's like me at customs, talking openly about cocaine or crack. they're gonna think... hmmm, hispanic and drugs. link? and they're gonna search me. see, i KNOW that, which is why i'd never say anything stupid like that.

 

My point was that you are essentially enforcing the current stereotypes and social order through your apathy and belief that "they deserve it", even when it is self-evident to a reasonable person that the stereotypes are severely flawed. That kind of thing was what allowed Jim Crow to last for almost 100 years, hence my choice of comparison.

 

At one time, it was believed in the South that black men were insane, sex-crazed fiends who would rape any white woman who got within a mile of them. The same theory of lack of self-control is believed about women in many modern Islamic cultures. While both ideas are obviously ridiculous to outsiders, they were (are) allowed to stand because nobody bothers to seriously challenge them. Which is why you're completely wrong. "Live and let live" isn't a good policy if the other group is suffering from your lack of attention.

 

edit - Also, your choice of example is way off base for two reasons. #1, they weren't talking about something bad, people severely overreacted because of a stereotype with little basis in reality - as opposed to your scenario, where there would be reasonable ground for suspicion. #2, why bother to bring up another racist myth (that Mexican immigrants bring higher crime rates and super-high drug usage)?

Edited January 6, 2009 by Finland My BorgInvasion

[ESCANDAL0SA]

you do realize that racism will always exist, along with discrimination and stereotypes, right? it's a part of life. i've accepted it.

 

and it's just the way i was taught growing up... if you're on the plane, around the cops, or around anybody who could get you into trouble... just shut your mouth and keep it moving. i just know how to avoid putting myself in messy situations.

 

lol... i used the hispanic + drug comparison because it's TRUE. if i go to the damn border, and i talk about drugs openly like it's nothing and say "freedom of speech", do you think they're gonna care? hell fucking no. they're gonna search me, my car and whoever else is with me. so why would i put myself in that situation to begin with? no, it's not right that they're stereotyping but that's just the way it is.

 

and really, i don't care too much about racism that affects other ethnic groups because every group goes through the same thing. i put up with racism too, i don't expect anyone to care about it lol. i'm not gonna challenge anything, especially if it doesn't affect me and i have better things to worry about.

Edited January 6, 2009 by L0SA

[FMBI]

Racism might always exist, but the fact is that it has alternately gained and lost huge amounts of influence both in the US and globally, depending on aggregate public opinion. And you can only hope to change that opinion by countering the endless myths that prevail in common society, not by ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

 

Also, check this out - as I said, the Hispanic=drug/crime thing is just another myth. Again, though, if you're relying on the most extreme situation (openly talking about criminal activity), then you are asking for it in the current paranoid security situation. If, on the other hand, you make a passing comment that someone else picks up on for no reason, then the blood is on their hands.

[ESCANDAL0SA]

you may feel that racism isn't as strong, but that's YOUR take. go and ask other racial groups and they'll tell you different.

 

so... switch it up and let's say a friend and i were at the border with customs discussing which drug is the safest drug out of marijuana and crack. you seriously don't think they'd check us for it? especially if we're both hispanic? lol.

[FMBI]

you may feel that racism isn't as strong, but that's YOUR take. go and ask other racial groups and they'll tell you different.

 

so... switch it up and let's say a friend and i were at the border with customs discussing which drug is the safest drug out of marijuana and crack. you seriously don't think they'd check us for it? especially if we're both hispanic? lol.

 

I didn't say that. I said they shouldn't base their opinion on simplistic racial stereotypes, especially because those stereotypes are, in virtually all cases, the reverse of reality. However, they might be justified for being concerned about your comments, since this is a less extreme case than your other one - you're merely talking about the effects of a drug, not whether you're going to use it, or where to buy it, or whatever. Therefore, this is more on a par with the Muslim case, IMO, which, as far as I'm concerned, may, depending on the details, result in a casual, semi-public (if that's your preferred route) discussion with your local security officer - not a ridiculous and embarassing high-tension interrogation session.

 

But what the heck, this discussion's going nowhere at this point. :\

[NBVegita]

Again LOSA, you are still discussing something illegal.

 

Discussing where the safest place to sit on an airplane is not only legal but does not bear any resemblance of an act that could be illegal as if they were going to blow the plane up, no where on the plane is safe.

 

Also if we didn't fight against racism and sexism women would still be stuck pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen and the majority of minorities would be slaves.