the truth continued...

[SeVeR]

i'll let u in on a little thing important to 17th which hece touched on..

 

The leagues in this zone are killing based and not soccer or flagging. We could try soccer or flagging but we'd come in 2nd best all the time to rival zones.

 

The best and most enjoyable ship for killing others that requires the most skill is the javelin. The other ships in this zone are specialised for certain things like base-defense, closed-area combat or heavy bomb support. This makes the pub a little more interesting but on the downside it makes every ship completely unequal based on where the battle is. This is not good because in a league there needs to be fair combat where the most skillful person wins the battles.

 

So leagues in 17th cannot work with the pub ships.. thats just how it is. As the only well-used ship in pub as well as events and leagues is the javelin then that little "brown-nosed" ship is our 17th crown jewel. If we can make 7 other ships that can fight it on equal terms in open space then we've made some useful settings for multiship leagues. These can then be put in pub and then we'll have players practicing all 8 league ships which in my opinion is how it should be. But if we try and put these 8 current pub ships into our leagues then it will only spell disaster.

 

So to conclude we either:

1. Stick with what we have and carry on with "same ship vs same ship" leagues which seem to only work with the jav.

2. We change every pub ship so they can fight a fair battle with the javelin in open or closed space.

3. We change the jav to make it just as specialised as the other ships and put them all into battle. This has been tried in MSBL and was a flop.

4. We don't change the jav and just use current ships in multiship leagues.

 

I like 2 the best because it lets us create multiship leagues where players can practice in pub. The squads can then recruit people based on how they do in pub rather than asking them to come to rumble or duel.

Option 1 is basically not doing much at all.. which would keep us ticking over i suppose but we want to improve this place.. right?

Option 3 or 4 is what i'm hoping vile is not considering.. as these are destined to be failures before they've even started. This is because the ships cannot fight on even terms as previously explained and there are too many cloakers for the fast-paced league gameplay to flow properly.

 

I don't know if anyone shares my opinion but i hope more people understand 17th's predicament.

[Hece]

I like the option 1 best. Thats what 17th was created to be.

FFS Jim, dont give staffers anymore ideas about changing the jav

 

-Hiic

[NBVegita]

Sigh everyone -*BAD WORD*-es saying "upper staff has no skill", I was 3rd in dueling league a few years ago when I took jav serious, I was the best terr in msbl, I have fun in pub, and have been with this zone longer than a lot of ya. Some of you may think I suck, but I guarantee that I know the feel of EVERY ship in this zone much better than most people. I do not say everyone, as there will always be someone a little better, maybe not, but I'm not saying I'm #1 here. What makes me suck, the fact that I haven't played a serious match in a jav in about a year?

[Vile Requiem]

As I said in my post, changing the jav would be suicide, it doesn't take a 2 year old monkey to notice that

 

Option 2 would be best, just so long as it doesn't go overboard and this zone becomes SSCU 17th Parallel SVS, cause then I wouldn't play it anymore.

 

And you certainly have the right to politely disagree with me or any staffer. However, it's not what I think, it's how much of what I think does Perni take to heart and actually try that is bad or good. But this pointless stuff about things we all know aren't true (like "mysterious jav changes") do need to end before there's too much of a rift to save the zone.

[Hece]

I love you NBV

 

pernille> first time i had a voice chat with df he farted into the mic

 

-Hece

[NBVegita]

<3 Hece

[mister manners]

STOP GOING LONG POSTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vile is cool

[Stylez]

God you people are slow on the go...

 

Change pub all you want, leave the event map settings alone.

 

Dont change the ship settings, atleast not much, there fine trust me on that.

 

If you want to do anything, just make a better map. The first thing anyone see's when they enter a zone is the map, well the dl'in of it, but yea the map and thats the eye catcher.

 

Just concentrate on getting peoples attention and less on how to change the entire zone. Events are fine, thats what 17th was made on, was its events. What you staffers are trying to do is boost up population, but what your failing at is keeping the veteran population. All the vets want is for you to leave the jav alone in every other arena but pub. Mess with pub as much as you want, but leave the events alone.

 

You people need business skills... To attract people to something is to catch their eye... like say DSB, people like that map becuase for one its about starwars and the desgin of the map looks cool. Thats what gets people's favor towards zones.

 

So basically in a nuts-*BAD WORD*-, leave the events alone and mess with pub...

 

AND STUP THE -*BAD WORD*- ARGUING, I mean for real, you people dont even know each other, yet you argue like brother and sisters, your all so childish and yes so was I, the game makes you that way. But just act a lil mature it gets real old after awhile, hey it drove me into insanity

 

Well I'm done,

Stylez

[Naedhaha]

Good idea styles, But i think pub is pretty cool the way it is now.

[SeVeR]

I'm a vet and joker doesn't speak for me

[Hece]

stylez=joker? wa?

[SeVeR]

I think so

[Stylez]

I'm a vet and joker doesn't speak for me

When did this happen? jk

 

Stylez

[DaKillaRoach]

Good idea styles, But i think pub is pretty cool the way it is now.

Thats because you havnt played for more than 3 months so do not to know that pub map is boring now.

 

And yes Stylez is Joker420

[Hece]

Vile, why do you still have that fake jav in rumble?

Have you changed it back from any other events either?

 

 

-Heke

[reload]

Vile, why do you still have that fake jav in rumble?

Have you changed it back from any other events either?

 

 

-Heke

The old Jav settings were in rumble a while ago (the same settings as we have now, except for the damage, it was way higher), but unfortunately, it has been changed back again. Oh, and someone was talking about minor changes having big effects (I think Bran said that), THAT IS TRUE. VILE, YOU CAN SAY EVERYTHING YOU WANT BUT BRAN IS -*BAD WORD*-ING RIGHT. I get over 15 kills with fixed damage, I have trouble getting 10 with random damage in rumble <-- small change, big difference.

[Hece]

What are you trying to do Vile?

[reload]

What are you trying to do Vile?

He's trying to ruin the zone, trying to get rid of all the vets who try to stop him, because after he gets rid of the vets, Vile can do whatever he wants to the settings.

[»Maverick]

Why dont you all stop the pointless flaming and the pointless messages about how bad this zone is and how bad the staff is...

 

Why dont you all give some feedback staff could REALLY use. That is not "the pub map sucks", but "the pub map could use a ..." or "the bases should be removed, because..."

 

Then action can be taken, however at this moment these posts will remain a flaming and complaining threat without any of you achieving anything with it.

 

 

[Tipme]

OR...you guys could make your own arena with the jav settings u want and play rumble there...

[met]

"The best and most enjoyable ship for killing others that requires the most skill is the javelin. The other ships in this zone are specialised for certain things like base-defense, closed-area combat or heavy bomb support. This makes the pub a little more interesting but on the downside it makes every ship completely unequal based on where the battle is. This is not good because in a league there needs to be fair combat where the most skillful person wins the battles. "

 

Jav blows in base compared to every other ship except maybe levi.

Warbird can play in or out of base, close or far.

Weasel can play in or out of base, close or far.

Shark can play in or out of base, close or far.

 

Maybe if people actually tried using other ships than javs, they would understand that every ship is good at doing something, and depending on your playing style, you can be better at certain ships.

 

In msbl, there was very very fair combat. Everyone could choose 4 of the 8 ships, and use them against each other in a TEAM battle. If you were smart about it, you could defend yourself against any ship that would come your way. Maybe not individually, but as a TEAM. A jav is very hard to fly against a weasel, but if it has a lanc supporting it, the weasel pilot would have to be extremely good to survive, let alone pull off a kill.

 

It's common knowledge that I don't like that jav. That's because it does not fit my playing style at all. ALSO because of people who try to make an entire zone revolve around one ship. There are 8 ships with very different settings for a reason. If you want to play 1 ship, go ahead, but don't try to make the rest of the zone pamper your needs.

 

Vile is trying to make it so more people enjoy the zone. As it is now, the majority of the people who actually PLAY most of the time, use more than just jav. The ones who tend to stay in jav 90% of the time are the ones you see in spec 90% of the time until rumble starts. Try working as a team for once instead of thinking about the 'nose of your brown little ship' as vile put it

 

I'd like to point out that many of the people in 17th may call me a newb or whatever because I fly weasel. I also fly most of the other ships better than the majority of the zone population. So before you go and insult my skill in the game, think about how well you can play more than one ship.

 

It seems like maybe the jav settings should be changed. Maybe that's the change the zone needs. It will get rid of these so-called 'vets' who want to cling to 1 ship in a zone, instead of playing in other zones with settings very similar to the 1 ship... and attract a new crowd with the change. A crowd that will want to play in pub, instead of sitting in spec waiting for an event.

 

It's almost 5am and i'm not quite sure what all i've typed in this post... but I know i've said a lot, so instead of insulting me or -*BAD WORD*-ing about things i've said in here(and now that means i'm gonna get a smart!@#$%^&* doing the exact opposite of what i asked, because i asked it) and let me know what you think. Arguing wont get any of this anywhere, lets try to discuss for once... with an open mind

[SeVeR]

Well i believe that was a quote from one of my posts met so i'll try to respond in a non argumentative way.

 

The ships you mentioned that can play in and out of base can indeed do that but look at the spider, the levi, the lancaster and maybe even the terrier compared to the javelin in open-space combat and you'll see they're just not designed for the same game. The weasel aswell is too fast, has too much thrust and has enough energy to survive 2 bombs if they're a few seconds apart. I played the weasel yesterday and couldn't die unless i flew into the goal-room with a lanc and a second ship (i'm sure you noticed me kill you a few times weasel vs weasel). I also play the shark and lancaster quite a bit so am not a 90%-of-the-time javer.

 

MSBL: This was not fair combat. The weasel and javelin were overpowered in the open spaces even though the javelin was significantly weakened (this just got every player who loves that ship angry). There were 3 cloakers as there is now which makes it impossible to play levi. Before its said, i did try and i'm actually quite good at levi in pub (another non-jav ship i play a lot!). SO

 

1. Spider can't kill much of anything because its main weapon is burst.

2. Lanc can kill quite a lot because it has x-radar,

3. Terr is a sitting duck with no x and difficult aim.

4. Levi can't kill much of anything because it gets swarmed by cloakers

5. Jav can kill most things because its overpowered compared to the other ships in open combat.

6. Weasel is sitting high on the top of the tree because it has cloak, speed, good firepower and enough energy to not die in a quick strike-something frequent in sbl games. Maybe this is why you loved this league so much.

 

So please don't tell me this is a balanced league when ships specialised for specific types of combat are all thrust into an open space. Playing as a TEAM doesn't help much here because SBL is about quick-killing not base-defense or a soccer game. In a killing game unbalanced ships have to work as a team not to die rather than with balanced ships where they do so to help them kill.

 

A Multiship league cannot work with these ships. MSBL was a big failure. I want a multiship league as much as anyone but NEVER again with these ships. Unless its a soccer league where each ship specialised ship has a purpose.

[Cencil]

Changing the Jav...I laugh at you met. The Jav is the main ship in the zone for 4+ years. It will not be changed in the near future in my opinion. Since a majority of the time use the jav...yea.

 

ships that need to be changed are the Terrier and Lancaster. As Jim said

 

Terr is a sitting duck with no x and difficult aim.

 

And he is right...How could the terrier go from being so good to so -*BAD WORD*-ty.

[epox]

As long as the jav doesn't change too drastically and the weasel doesnt go back to the one-hit kill bombs I think the setings are in good shape overall.

[talion]

elemental did better than their player skill level at the time would suggest (i thought anyways) using team work and rethinking how to play it.

 

two ways of thinking about msbl (or any other leagues based on kills)

 

1) get more kills

2) get less deaths

 

laugh if you want, but from what i've seen getting less deaths is how most leagues are thought about (And thus why hiding in rumble or any other league is a problem)

 

if you're focusing on getting more kills, you are right sever. i suggested to net or ent when it was running that next season should have an elimination element to it, every player (or slot so there's no subbing at halftime to get 40 more deaths) gets a max of 10 deaths (or something) then they are out. makes players more responsible i think, and also makes it so that you can focus on the pilots that are flying the weasel/shark and make them play more conservatively. i doubt this'd get implemented though as i basically ripped this idea off of premier, and y'all want an original 17th league, im sure.

 

met and i talked about this shortly after revenant went to -*BAD WORD*-. a good defensive team will be able to make even the best offensive teams work for their wins in msbl, but the good offensive team has to still prove that they are better.

 

am i the only one who noticed the low-scoring nature of the games elemental played last season? see "2) get less deaths"

 

boring to watch, but gives every team a chance regardless of ships.