the truth continued...

[Tempest]

This seems to be quickly turning into another flame thread.

 

Maka - How do you propose a staff should work?

[SeVeR]

Put me in charge to organise staff. Then Maka can have pub. Prem can have leagues. .. Everyone else is either a developer or a hoster or both.

[DaKillaRoach]

Sounds fine to me (not that I care) ^_^ Although the single fact you want Prem as a staff person let alone in charge of people makes me shudder.

 

I'm here to host, so thats what I do

[Zioneer]

Maka - How do you propose a staff should work?

I have already stated that in the FORBIDDEN EVIL ILLEGAL CENSORED thread.

[Tempest]

So we should fire half of upper staff, half of lower staff, and then flounder without a plan for a while until we somehow find some people whose vision for the zone totally coincide with the population's and then leave them to figure out how to implement them? There's a lot of problems you list (a lot of which I don't agree with, but that's just me), but few solutions.

[ntfx]

Put me in charge to organise staff. Then Maka can have pub. Prem can have leagues. .. Everyone else is either a developer or a hoster or both.

oh yeh prem for leagues... lol Everything would be jav only and his squad would always win

[Zioneer]

So we should fire half of upper staff' date=' half of lower staff, and then flounder without a plan for a while until we somehow find some people whose vision for the zone totally coincide with the population's and then leave them to figure out how to implement them?[/quote']

 

Plan? Vision?

 

lol you don't need a plan or vision to run a zone smoothly.

The "vision" of how 17th is supposed to be already exists, and it came from the minds of its creators.

 

We don't need any "plan" to make things work. What we need is someone who knows how to make things work in the first place, because obviously, people in charge don't see anything wrong with the zone or just don't know how to clean shït up.

And there's a million details in the zone that upper staff don't even think about because they just don't know how they affect the zone.

I believe that that's because they're not "real" players, so they just don't know.

In the past I've asked them to fix a number of minor details. It took a day or two to even get their attention, and when I finally got it they either sent me to another person (who of course couldn't do anything about it either) or just went AFK.

 

If everyone did their jobs correctly and behaved the way they are supposed to behave then there wouldn't be any problem.

 

There's a lot of problems you list (a lot of which I don't agree with' date=' but that's just me), but few solutions.[/quote']

 

What exactly don't you agree with, Tempest? What I stated in that thread were pure facts.

You can't disagree with the truth. You either don't know it or you do know it and decide to share it so something is done.

The thread that I posted was meant to first of all start a dialog about the problems.

I could have typed the solutions to them but to me the solutions were obvious so I didn't think I'd have to tell you.

 

But anyways.. to be honest, after years of seeing people mess things up in the zone, not taking care of the zone and making sure it doesn't rot, PLUS constantly telling them how to fix things along with players who know what the zone really is about HOW to make it work, you feel like you're talking to a rock.

 

And then on top of that shït, comes newbies like Talion telling me what I should or should not do, heh please.

 

So yeah, spending time here is rather pointless because I can't do anything to make the zone grow, and that means that there's nothing in here that I haven't seen or done before.

 

So there's no reason for people who want to play the "real" 17th to stay here.

[talion]

firstly: http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=2228

 

 

 

secondly: "And then on top of that shït, comes newbies like Talion telling me what I should or should not do, heh please."

 

i dont really feel that's warranted. i haven't told you what to do in a while now. other than shut the -*BAD WORD*- up and not have a soap opera on boards... but i can hardly be the only person telling you that kinda thing.

 

i don't really know what happened prior to me being made jwl coord maka, but for some reason i ended up getting approached to do it. either 1) you got asked and turned it down or 2) you didn't get asked. explain that to me then, and quickly before this thread gets closed.

 

i also don't think it's very productive to pick me as your random newbie anymore maka as i no longer play 17th, except for turreting on occasion with friends.

[Tempest]

It just seems (to me at least) that 17th is doing fine. We're hardly losing any pop, and our player levels are pretty good, espec. at peak times. Upper staff seem to be doing well, with the new bots and tiles being more recent developments (and letting mods host -*BAD WORD*-, which is always nice).

[Zioneer]

That just shows how unaware you are Tempest. But that doesn't surprise me since you're not very active these days.

 

firstly:  http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=2228

 

Yes.. I knew about that thread before it was posted but thanks for showing us what a bright and alert young man you are Tallie.

 

secondly:  "And then on top of that shït' date=' comes newbies like Talion telling me what I should or should not do, heh please."

 

i dont really feel that's warranted. i haven't told you what to do in a while now.[/quote']

 

if you know exactly how the zone should be' date=' you are saying that you have ideas. and if you dont' have ideas, you shouldn't be saying how the zone should be handled.[/quote']

 

other than shut the -*BAD WORD*- up and not have a soap opera on boards...

 

Soap opera? Heh... call it what you want boï but it was something that had to be said.

 

but i can hardly be the only person telling you that kinda thing.

 

Sorry Tallie you're alone on this one. Psst if you have a problem with what I said then you don't have a problem with me but with the zone because all I said was the truth.

 

i don't really know what happened prior to me being made jwl coord maka' date=' but for some reason i ended up getting approached to do it. either 1) you got asked and turned it down or 2) you didn't get asked.  explain that to me then' date=' and quickly before this thread gets closed.[/quote'']

 

Okay now..... wth does that got to do with anything? I don't understand.. what is going on inside that head of yours?

And don't worry about this thread getting closed... you see, the reason to why NBV closed the other thread was to "protect staff".

 

i also don't think it's very productive to pick me as your random newbie anymore maka as i no longer play 17th' date=' except for turreting on occasion with friends.[/quote']

 

Then I guess you have no business here then, do you?

And you're not just some random newbie Talion... no... you're far more "special" than that... yeh...

 

Talion reminds me of a Little Vile: young, energetic and ready to fool people to think that he's anything but a nubi!

Too busy talking about things that he has no clue about that he didn't have time to do what regular newbies do: just sit and learn.

Noo he couldn't do that, he just has got to be a smartäss.

If he could just tell me his age then I could understand why he is the way he is and just accept him for it, but noooo he couldn't even tell me that.

 

It's säd that some people have to run their mouths when they don't even have facts checked....bläh.

 

You're so much like Vile.. it's rather interesting.... dumdidum...

 

Yeah wellll the point is... stop trying to be something you're not.. be realistic, be true to yourself.

I can see right through you talion.

 

psssst could you tell me how old you äre? I've asked you several times before and you've just avoided the question...

[talion]

im just asking why i was asked to do it not you. i must have done something right when i was staff the first time to warrant getting asked to do it. why weren't you asked? too busy doing...whatever it is you do?

 

i am 18. that is the answer. if youdon't believe me, ask pernille. i free her from any obligation of keeping my staff application confidential (or whoever's in charge of hirings now). speaking of evading questions, you answer my question with a question "what does that have to do with anything?"

 

you're right, i shouldn't probably be on these forums anymore. but i still have the ssforum account, so i use it. maybe in a year when (hopefully) this forum's user turn over has shuffled out some regular posters and brought in some new ones ive never met i'll be quieter, and as the settings change i will inevitably become less and less informed about current affairs in 17th. but now i feel i have a good grasp of what's going on. it's the same problem as always, really. but you don't like to hear that argument, so i won't say any more about it.

[Tempest]

Not to sound offensive, but it just seems to be you and Foof who're actually complaining. I can't talk about jav league players, because I've never been one and nor do I know many players who have - but from a public point of view, I've seen few to no people who're actually complaining about upper staff. I fail to see what the opinions (and they are opinions - not objective fact, considering nearly none of us can claim anything about the zone objectively) of 2 people (which, you'll note, seem to have recieved notable opposition on the forums already) are going to accomplish. Now, I don't mean these opinions aren't important, but claiming they are grounded in fact is a flaw. A single log (which could be taken as being flippant, amongst many other interpretations) is hardly enough to change what is, in reality, a subjective opinion to objective fact.

 

Now, to support my view: I disagree with your views. The _majority_ of staff seem to disagree with your views. The majority of pubbers I've spoken to seem to disagree with your views. I've listed a few of the recent advantages upper staff have brought to the zone. As such, I fail to see any specific problems.

 

Your complaints seem to argue that 17th's staff aren't connected with the playerbase.

 

I don't see how you can claim this without somehow claiming to know what the playerbase wants. You seem to make out that you are somehow the embodiment of the entire playerbase and their opinions, not factoring in the 'facts' that the playerbase regularly has conflicting opinions and that it would, objectively, be impossible.

 

Further, the evidence seems to point the other way. 17th still appears to be growing, albeit slowly, with a good amount of players at peak times. 17th has suffered no recent loss in population, nor any signs of negative growth. I therefore don't see any problems in the governing of the zone as long as these factors remain so.

 

Believe me, if the staff do anything as bad as the whole javs with ports thing, I'd be the first to complain. But as far as I can see, _nothing has changed_ (negatively, anyway). I just don't see what you're arguing about.

 

(When I'm arguing, I can get kinda ratty about things - remember I'm addressing your viewpoints, not yourself as far as my experience shows, you seem to be a good person so don't take it personally)

[Zioneer]

Not to sound offensive' date=' but it just seems to be you and Foof who're actually complaining. I can't talk about jav league players, because I've never been one and nor do I know many players who have - but from a public point of view, I've seen few to no people who're actually complaining about upper staff.[/quote']

 

If everyone said exactly what they were thinking about 17th Staff, you'd hear a lot more, but it's been like this for over a year so that is why you don't hear much complains about Staff anymore: because those people think it's pointless since they think that nothing will be changed for the better anyway.

 

So you don't think there's anything wrong with staff eh?

As I've said before, a staff is supposed to be a selected group of people who serve the players effectively.

That's not happening here. If you want me to collect names of people who are fed up with 17th and its staff I could do that.

But upper staff itself KNOWS that staff is messed up. Ask one of them, if they're honest enough they will tell you the truth.

So when you say that "it's all fine" I can only feel sad that you think so.

 

I fail to see what the opinions (and they are opinions - not objective fact' date=' considering nearly none of us can claim anything about the zone objectively) of 2 people (which, you'll note, seem to have recieved notable opposition on the forums already) are going to accomplish.[/quote']

 

Tell me, how am I not objective? What do you see me as? A "Jav League Player" or a "Pub Player" or a "Newbie" or what?

 

I've been everything you can be in this zone and that's why I have a lot to say.

You wonder what the point in posting the thread in which I address the problems were?

Simple, to fix the problems, but also to make people like you who think it's all good realize that it's not.

Staff is weak and pernille knows it. You think that there's nothing wrong because we haven't lost any players?

Dude, we've lost more than 50 players since the fück-ups began. And when I say "players" I don't mean just the number next to the zone name before you enter, I mean loyal players who were a part of 17th.

TRUST ME, I've been around long enough and learned enough to know what I'm talking about.

 

Now' date=' I don't mean these opinions aren't important, but claiming they are grounded in fact is a flaw. A single log (which could be taken as being flippant, amongst many other interpretations) is hardly enough to change what is, in reality, a subjective opinion to objective fact.[/quote']

 

Heh, I see you don't really know Vile eh? ;p Anyone who knows him agrees with what I said because they know that it's true.

I once again ask you what exactly you didn't agree with in my original post about staff.

 

Now' date=' to support my view: I disagree with your views. The _majority_ of staff seem to disagree with your views. The majority of pubbers I've spoken to seem to disagree with your views. I've listed a few of the recent advantages upper staff have brought to the zone. As such, I fail to see any specific problems.[/quote']

 

The majority of players in any zone are newbies who don't know what's really going on.

I've been playing here for years, it surprises me that you Tempest don't see anything wrong. Thennn again you are a pub player only o.O

 

The problem is that 17th Staff doesn't function as a zone staff should function.

A SysOp's job is to make sure everything is in order and everyone is doing their jobs correctly.

They have failed doing their jobs. I'm not very sure why, but I guess it's because they don't know how a zone staff should work either.

 

Your complaints seem to argue that 17th's staff aren't connected with the playerbase.

 

I don't see how you can claim this without somehow claiming to know what the playerbase wants. You seem to make out that you are somehow the embodiment of the entire playerbase and their opinions' date=' not factoring in the 'facts' that the playerbase regularly has conflicting opinions and that it would, objectively, be impossible.[/quote']

 

I don't claim to be anything but a player. A player who has interacted with everyone who has been anyone in this zone.

When I said that staff aren't connected to the playerbase, I didn't mean all these newbies who come and ago, I meant the players who love this zone and know what it was all about, know what it is, and know how it could be.

That's a true 17th Parallel player and I'm not going to deny that I am one, and I don't say it to brag, I say it because I know it's the truth and so does every other real player out there so I'm not concerned with what anyone here has to say about it.

 

I don't claim to know exactly their opinions are or exactly what they want, but when it comes to this ZONE, then I sure as hëll speak for a lot of people. There's no doubt in that.

I speak for those who've had soo much fun in here and would still be here if they could continue to have fun here.

But they can't because the zone isn't growing because the staff is malfunctioning.

It's really no secret lol it's been known for a long time.

 

Further' date=' the evidence seems to point the other way. 17th still appears to be growing, albeit slowly, with a good amount of players at peak times. 17th has suffered no recent loss in population, nor any signs of negative growth. I therefore don't see any problems in the governing of the zone as long as these factors remain so.[/quote']

 

So because you see all these new people, you think it's growing?

Those newbies would be here no matter what. Staff didn't do anything to attract those players, they just came.

Staff DID drive away players though, and that's why it's malfunctioning.

When I say "grow" I don't mean just the number of players, I mean the possibilities that the players have in the zone: what they can play, how comfortable they are here and the player service that the staff can provide.

 

Believe me' date=' if the staff do anything as bad as the whole javs with ports thing, I'd be the first to complain. But as far as I can see, _nothing has changed_ (negatively, anyway). I just don't see what you're arguing about.[/quote']

 

Hopefully now you do. It's not just about pub, it's not just about "one thing", it's about the zone as a whole.

 

Remember back in the days when there were events hosted almost all the time? Sometimes two at the same time?

I do. I remember when we had like 40% of the zone playing events and jussst having fun and you could still play pub.

17th was a lot more fun in the past, I'm sure that anyone who remembers will agree with me.

 

And that's why the zone hasn't grown but fallen apart, it's like dead now, nothing is going on, it's boring.

It really surprises me that it isn't obvious to you.

 

(When I'm arguing' date=' I can get kinda ratty about things - remember I'm addressing your viewpoints, not yourself [img']http://www.ssforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] as far as my experience shows, you seem to be a good person so don't take it personally)

 

Heheh I'm gläd someone feels the same way. I have said it before, I have nothing personally against Vile or any other staff member.

But they are staff members so they are supposed to "be" a certain way, and when I see that they're not then I have to speak up..

[Zioneer]

im just asking why i was asked to do it not you. i must have done something right when i was staff the first time to warrant getting asked to do it. why weren't you asked?

 

Hm yeah that's a tough one. Why NBV asked you to take over JWL is beyond me' date=' but I guess he knows better now.

I mean you did mess a lot of things up.. I understand why you chose to coordinate it under the alias "R. Carlos" heheheh that guy sure wasn't very liked during JWL ;p

 

i am 18. that is the answer. if youdon't believe me' date=' ask pernille. i free her from any obligation of keeping my staff application confidential (or whoever's in charge of hirings now).[/quote']

 

18 years... bah that's rather sad to hear.

 

speaking of evading questions' date=' you answer my question with a question "what does that have to do with anything?"[/quote']

 

lol because it was totally off-topic so I didn't understand why you asked.

Perhaps if I rephrase your sentences I will understand how you're thinking.

 

"Stop calling me a newbie!" "I was asked to coordinate JWL! You weren't!"

 

Hmmm yeah, picture's getting clearer now.

[Tempest]

"Tell me, how am I not objective? What do you see me as? A "Jav League Player" or a "Pub Player" or a "Newbie" or what?"

 

The point I was making here is that no matter how much you've played, or play, it's still impossible to be objective and it seems arrogant to claim anyone can know the 'truth' about the zone. As long as you are one person, and involved in the zone, your opinions can only ever be subjective - an opinion, as seperated from fact.

 

"Dude, we've lost more than 50 players since the fück-ups began."

 

Aye, in comparison with the old n/s pub, that much is true. I still don't get why we started changing the map and sets when so dramatically when only a few modifications were necessary. Alas, I see no way of magically restoring 17th to the old map/sets, especially with our newer players being more and more acclimatised to our current map/sets. Remember Halloween? The old players loved it. The newer ones didn't.

 

"And when I say "players" I don't mean just the number next to the zone name before you enter, I mean loyal players who were a part of 17th."

 

Here's a difference between our viewpoints. I don't care about older players who were here when we had n/s maps and old sets. Don't get me wrong - veterans are an important part of the zone - but I care about them in that they are players, and only players. As such, I believe newbies and veterans should be treated equally in this regard. Growth, after all, is of prime importance - and gaining two good newbies in exchange for a vet seems perfectly fine to me.

 

"Staff didn't do anything to attract those players, they just came."

 

Perhaps, but staff will always play a part in _keeping_ those players. It's the map, sets and service that matters, and we don't seem to be doing too badly in that respect. Occasions where a ?help or ?cheater are disregarded are very few in my experience.

 

"17th was a lot more fun in the past, I'm sure that anyone who remembers will agree with me."

 

I've been here in the older days. You know that. And yes, I do find it more fun. The problem is that newer players probably won't, and it seems fine to accept that and get on with what we have. If you do prefer the older settings, perhaps you should speak to Vile about his current plans. They seem to coincide somewhat.

 

"And that's why the zone hasn't grown but fallen apart, it's like dead now, nothing is going on, it's boring."

 

Remember when you asked me, above, which category of player I would put you in? I would have chosen 'Pub Vet' and 'Jav Vet'. But not 'Newbie'. And there we have a problem. 17th may be boring to vets who've been here since oldmap and are used to the old style of play - but the newer playerbase seem to be coming, staying, growing, and can you say that the newbies we recieve find the zone boring?

 

I really need to figure out how those quote tags work :/

 

Ah, and a question: if you could do anything with 17th, staff, pub map, pub sets, etc. - what would you do?

[DaKillaRoach]

Ah the big old topic ey? And once again I feel obliged to join Maka's side because I support his view on 17th. I have always beena fan of the old 17th, it is what made me stay on continuum, it drew me in, yet every day I see it falling apart a little by a little but I say nothing, why should I? It is a concern that my home zone is dieing but if I was to be truthfully honest with you people I dont see the staff as being one intergrated group. Theres a split, upper and lower which yes there should be to a degree, but its like a canyon, or in my views. And you know why that split is? Lack of acknolodgement.

 

Do you know exactly how the upper staff people treat the mods and ER's like crap? well me and some other ER's, prehaps even a mod or two could vouch for that.

 

The fact is, staff will ALWAYS be the main argument of the zone becuase staff affects the zone. Every sacking, every promotion, every change to the zone is decided by those of upper staff, for worse or better, although I see it as worse for the majority.

 

You think of all the people we have lost, loyal friends and people we got on with, think of everyone we have gained... I need to say no more on that one. Yes we need newbies more than we need veterans, their should be a 2:1 average at least, thatswhat makes the veterans, the pros, the experianced seperated. The select few who have stayed in the zone and kept playing even through the changes. We have lost alot of good people, we have gained a few also, overall the zone is growing, prehaps for the better, in my eyes it never will be like it was, it never will be the zone that this newbie joined for some fun after Infantry went p2p. But whatever happens I dam well plan to stick around if I can help it, because this is MY home zone, its alot of others, and we must deal and accept these changes with gritted teeth and a warm coming because a simple change here and there shouldnt make us give up!

 

I know I have left before, because of Staff, and now being in Staff I STILL see the problem,s I STILL see everything which could be corrected, the people which should be sacked, the places where we need good staffers, but unfortunatly that will never happen, which is why me, naedhaha and others split themselves from the upperstaff. We dont talk as much, we acknoldge their precense, and yes Ive ignored a few for their inability to understand and accept the ways of other people, and thats the sort of people we have in 17th, but this is 17th, thats how people are. We have some of the most headstrong, ignorant and arrogant -*BAD WORD*-s here, which still makes us unique for our decision to change for what we see as better for everyone! It wont always work but we keep trying.

 

The problems will always remain, upperstaff will keep like they always are (which I do not wish to delve deeply into for certain reasons), lower staff will always be your loyal players who want to help the players get some interesting things in this game, and the players will always complain and not understand, because most of our vets have been or are staff, and the rest are newbies or not interested in 17th enough. That is how it stands in my views, the split between upper and lowerwill always remain, the zone will keep changing no matter what is said, and people will carry on complaining and moaning. THAT IS CONTINUUM!

 

Just think about it

 

-Röach

[ntfx]

naedhaha talks pretty much to upperstaff so you're wrong there

[DaKillaRoach]

Theres a difference between talking and friendly talk. Trust me, he's one of my best mates, I know him irl, -*BAD WORD*- i'm in his form O.o' god he dont leave me alone >.

[Premier-17th]

I have been in 17th for about 3-3.5 years. This was the first zone i played, and when i started here there was no such thing as events just pub. There was no elim, no rumble, no duel arena (if some vets remember there were duel boxes in the pub arena), no nothing. The zone was stagnent but interesting in my noobie days. Then Fujin Frost made elim, duel, and rumble. Right there the whole zone exploded with massive numbers or people coming to play the events. That is the time when a major amount of DSB people came to play, and there used to be EG squads that came to play in 17th (but they got owned horribly).

 

I dont see this changing, events are what made this zone thrive and always will. I can honestly say all the 3yr+ vets dont play in 17th ne more unless some are smurfed. And i think vets are what makes a zone, without them you got some noobs who are just tryin this game out and will be bored of it in 2 months and quit the game and then ur back to square 1. As Maka said, they know the game inside and out, and know what makes it fun.

 

Premier

[ntfx]

AFAIK You only know how to screw the fun

[Premier-17th]

lol playin keep away with the ball is alot of fun, give the noobies a challenge instead of mindless back and forth runs to goals.

Premier

[talion]

hindsight is 20/20, as always. i agree being aliased didnt help me at all. but the at!@#$%^&*ude of the people i had to deal with regarding jwl (exceptions: kidnorad and floo) was very negative. but they made the zone what it is, to hear some people tell it (indirectly through being jav pilots because of rumble, which did bump up populations YEARS ago). maybe that's part of the problem. i don't feel screwed anything up for jwl. when you're handed a league after 2 games with no scores, rosters, and a rules set that was FUBAR, there's only so much i could do. anyone who disagrees feel free to message me (except apple and zioneer, ignore.txt-ed) in subspace, or post here if you must.

 

for the record, all of the work i did on jwl (minus the table i have on my hd still) is still at league.17thparallel.com, in the forums there. good luck getting argyle to make league.nu handle multisquad games, by the way.

 

 

 

"I don't claim to be anything but a player. A player who has interacted with everyone who has been anyone in this zone."

 

"everyone who has been anyone?" How do you define "anyone" in that statement? Nevermind the fact that interacting isn't quite the same as getting a straight answer about what they think about the zone.

i could go on responding to your priceless quotes zioneer, but it's all been said by tempest already.

 

"And i think vets are what makes a zone, without them you got some noobs who are just tryin this game out and will be bored of it in 2 months and quit the game and then ur back to square 1"

 

[next paragraph highly tangental]

 

now, i wasn't playing SS when the svs zones started to get compe!@#$%^&*ion from dsb/tw/eg, but was that not the same argument they (svs players) used then? just because 17th isn't as blatantly (can't think of a good non offensive word here bear with me) ... "super" or "one-hit-kill-like" doesn't mean it's any different than those tw/eg/dsb in basic design. that's how it is with zones that have quicker learning curves. people get bored, or they find a zone they like more (i know i went from dsb to eg to swr to 17th to chaos over the 4 years ive been playing as "home" zones), or sometimes real life calls and they quit. what got ss to its biggest point? newbie zones, intermediate zones, then the elite zones/leagues (pro). used to be all those zones were svs zones, but now chaos has become an "elite" zone on the basis of hosting all the svs zones now except alpha and wz! (Aswz is "special" )

tw has its vets, i've met a few in chaos, come looking for some new challenges.

it's how it is, i feel. new players (of which there seem to be fewer every month) download continuum, play trenchwars, and they either say "what the -*BAD WORD*- is this, i'd rather be owning my friends at (insert game here)" or decide to stick around. again, back to what i said earlier. attrition. many of the tw players stay there until they quit ss for whatever reason. a few become vets. they play the events, they get bored, they look for another zone to play that has more challenge. it's just how it goes. why would they play in 17th, at 50 players, when there's another zone with over 400 people (and low--*BAD WORD*- ping) just begging for a click, then a quick hook. my point is this: PLAYER TURNAROUND. vets don't stay forever (noone does). premier im sure you'll be all in favour of keeping the zone in the "vets'" favour until one day you find you're one of a handful (smaller than now, to hear you fellows tell it) who still feel that way. then you'll look at your zone with 15-20 people (if ss still exists) and wonder why newbies won't play the zone you tried so hard to drive into the past. svs is, regrettably, already in the late stages of this process.

 

[end tangent]

 

anyways, getting back to the staff "problem," premier. staff do what they can to make 17th the most attractive to continuum players, and they do a pretty good job. few zones have the skill requirment and player base of 17th, and that's a good thing. the problem is subspace as a whole isn't getting enough fresh blood, but that's a completely different topic isn't it. what are the peak populations, i remember cokey saying something like 70 people once on a weekday? i'd say that's pretty good. i'm sure you've heard it before but the best way to ensure 17th surviving premier is to use your expertise (Which i assume you have, at something relating to zones) to help the zone move forward. saying the zone was better 3 years ago is no help to anyone. nothing about the old sets in 17th particularly makes me wish the zone would reinstate those sets so i'd play in 17 again.

 

boiled down contents of message: it's really easy to contribute to the zone (does require thick skin at times), and even easier to scoff doing so. im not the person to say this kinda thing anymore, but once you say to the staff that you'll do something, DO IT. you dont even need powers to do so.

 

if you don't like the map, make some maps and submit them.

if you dont' like the settings, make some new settings and submit them.

if you don't like the graphics, make new graphics and submit them.

 

the one thing that's not going to change no matter how much you don't like it is the makeup of upper staff, i think. you have to pick your battles. saying staff sucks wont get anything done. saying "heres an idea, what do you think, i can email it to you (or whatever) so you can see for yourself)" is more likely to make progress for you

 

well, good luck with whatever you decide to do. how much of it you need is up to you though

 

 

edit: -*BAD WORD*- that was an ugly mofo

[Greased_Lightning]

im just gonna post here now and not look at stuff already posted cuz if i wanna read that much, i wouldnt read playboy

 

I now consider myself an "old timer" cuz someone said i was in pub one day... go figure... ive been playing on this nick for over 2 years...before that, and i doubt anyone will remember, i was known as Thompson yeah i doubt anyone remembers that...that was back when the pub had the duel boxes and north and south bases with safes on the sides....by the way, that rocked...everyone loved safe box battles

 

I remember when Temp was just a spidering son of a -*BAD WORD*- who made ppl so mad in those bases...then he got to staff and was destroyed ..I MISS THE OLDEN DAYS!

 

but the thing about pub that I really have a beef with is that lately there hasnt been any hosting going on that ive seen........ no sblball, speedball, MS, -*BAD WORD*-, not even sbl or rumble which i thought was weird cuz it used to be that the ONLY thing that went on was rumble and sbl...yeah I hated that i like sblball and the games with a POINT to them, but whatever..........

 

so, in closing...we need hosting to be going on on a variety of events not just the same old crap all the time...we need the vets to keep the zone together...WE NEED THE OLD WEASEL BACK!!!!!!

 

(admit it, you KNEW that was coming)

[Tempest]

I remember when Temp was just a spidering son of a -*BAD WORD*- who made ppl so mad in those bases...then he got to staff and was destroyed ..I MISS THE OLDEN DAYS!

Pff, I can still outspider ya, Greased What do you mean 'destroyed'?

 

 

Oh, about the hosting thing: I've hosted about 2 games of SBL, 10 or 20 rounds of Speedball and 6 rounds of -*BAD WORD*- in the past week or so, and I host far less than a lot of staff (Mav, for instance).

 

We've even tried MS2 twice, when there were 30 and 50 people online. We received SIX players.

 

SIX.

[Greased_Lightning]

First, let me set the record straight...you got me in spider when I was in a JAV!!! next time i see you in pub, Im challenging you to SPIDERBOWL 2003!!! or 2004 whichever comes first... and rest !@#$%^&*ured that you shall fall to the mighty bursts, the tricky decoys, rapid-fire yellow guns, and the surprising portals of...GREASED_LIGHTNING!!!!

 

but yeah in all seriousness, i didnt realize that you had been hosting so much speedball...must be when im not on... but we DO need more hosting from the ERs...I miss playing sblball!! Good to see that some of the 'old timers' are still around the zone...too bad they've all gotten into the 'Stay in Spec all the Time' mode