The Last Presidential Debate

[rootbear75]

I saw part of it, but turned it off because all it seemed to me was each other defending against each other's allegations and accusations.

 

 

EDIT: If you missed it, here you go. The FULL Debate

 

DvdfO0lq4rQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvdfO0lq4rQ

 

EDIT2: Added Poll.

EDIT3: Added options for our foreign friends.

Edited October 31, 2008 by rootbear75

[NBVegita]

I actually cannot weigh in on this yet as I had a family event last night so I missed the debate.

[Hate The Fake]

I thought Mccain won (surprised?) Obama couldnt give awnsers about funding his own campaign after signing a deal for it to be federally funded. Nor could he defend himself about his relation to Ayers. I think McCain set the pace of the debate and feel they both equally used the name Joe Plumber WAY too much.

[AstroProdigy]

I thought Mccain won (surprised?) Obama couldnt give awnsers about funding his own campaign after signing a deal for it to be federally funded. Nor could he defend himself about his relation to Ayers. I think McCain set the pace of the debate and feel they both equally used the name Joe Plumber WAY too much.

 

coming from the guy who said

 

Palin gave McCains Cabinet more of a conservative approach' date=' and she is the reason ill be voting republican.[/quote']

[NBVegita]

Then does:

 

The only way I'd not vote for Obama, though, would be if I voted for Nader anyway.

 

also invalidate your opinion on the subject?

 

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but that posts looks to me like simply because he likes Palin you invalidate his opinion on the debate.

[AstroProdigy]

When I bring in an absolutist religion as the reason I'm voting one way or another then you can feel free to discount me. I'm sure you don't think supporting the Ayatollahs in Iran because someone's a Shiite is a rational decision so don't pretend Fake is using logic.

[Hate The Fake]

I used the logic off which I plan to be voting on. I saw the debate just like anyone else did. I however actually contributed to this thread unlike the !@#$%^&* quoting me. In any debate, i want the candidates to answer the questions not dance around them. I want to see someone who isnt changing their views every time they talk. I definately want someone whos confident in what they say.

[rootbear75]

I posted the FULL Debate in the first post if you missed it.

[Bak]

it was mccain's best debate so far, although he definitely appeared mean-spirited.

 

also: lol @ plumber making $250,000/year. what exactly was the issue with him again?

[AstroProdigy]

When you dwell on McCain talking points (and worse Palin talking points), take them on face value, and then expect some impossible answer to a misleading question from Obama then I doubt your reasoning. This comes especially after you clearly stated you're voting for McCain because he (or Palin) is closer to Jesus (or at least your interpretation of Jesus) than Obama. Sorry if I can't take your arguments seriously because it will follow a script already written for you. I can go read what your party says and not waste my time pretending you form your own opinions.

[PoLiX]

Joe the Plumber really isn't even a licensed plumber amongst other things they've found out (debt, arrests, etc.)... Poor McCain needs to find himself new advisors to help him stop picking the wrong people to support his calling. I'm almost feeling bad for the guy.

[Bak]

joe or john?

[AstroProdigy]

I'm feeling bad for Sally Housekeeper. Obama wants to eat her babies. Edited October 18, 2008 by AstroProdigy

[Hate The Fake]

When you dwell on McCain talking points (and worse Palin talking points), take them on face value, and then expect some impossible answer to a misleading question from Obama then I doubt your reasoning. This comes especially after you clearly stated you're voting for McCain because he (or Palin) is closer to Jesus (or at least your interpretation of Jesus) than Obama. Sorry if I can't take your arguments seriously because it will follow a script already written for you. I can go read what your party says and not waste my time pretending you form your own opinions.

 

It must be hard to be a democrat, having your candidate have some of the worst relationships in political history. Between Ayers, Wright, and his slumlord friend. Guess when you go to racist church for 20 years you just quickly forget all the racism. Or when one of your friends is an extreme terrorist that must be as easy to forget. Lets not remember the fact that he gave his friend MILLIONS of tax payer dollars to build houses for the poor, and !@#$%^&*ed that up to you. Yea I may be voting for Mccain. But when obama cant awnser any of the above questions, then im reinforced as to why.

[Aceflyer]

Joe the Plumber really isn't even a licensed plumber amongst other things they've found out (debt, arrests, etc.)... Poor McCain needs to find himself new advisors to help him stop picking the wrong people to support his calling. I'm almost feeling bad for the guy.

 

He was really a bad person to pick, I mean what plumbers do you know make a quarter of a million a year?

[ESCANDAL0SA]

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/vid...-debate/768721/ Edited October 18, 2008 by L0SA

[NBVegita]

I don't see why someone voting based on their religious beliefs is any worse than voting based upon what I guess you would consider personal beliefs. For most stalwartly religious people, their religious beliefs are their personal beliefs.

 

If Hate feels that McCain is a better christian or "closer to Jesus" or however you want to phrase it, and because of that he feels he will uphold the christian beliefs better, then I'd say he has a perfectly good reason to vote for McCain.

[Bak]

personal beliefs are debatable. You could convince me with reason that some of my personal beliefs are wrong, and I would change my mind.

 

Also personal beliefs aren't based on values from 2,000-10,000 year-old societies, which are bound to have some out-of-date items.

[Hate The Fake]

personal beliefs are debatable. You could convince me with reason that some of my personal beliefs are wrong, and I would change my mind.

 

Also personal beliefs aren't based on values from 2,000-10,000 year-old societies, which are bound to have some out-of-date items.

 

That would be debatable, to you, you may think being prolife is out of date, to me I still dont believe in murder no matter what name they try to cover it up with. (abortion, Euthanasia)

[SeVeR]

to me I still dont believe in murder no matter what name they try to cover it up with. (abortion, Euthanasia)

This only proves that you don't ask questions of your beliefs.

 

What is murder? The taking of a life.

What is life?

Is a foetus alive?

If someone chooses to die is it murder to help them?

 

If you can definately answer all those questions, start asking why. Why is a foetus alive? Why is it murder to help someone die?

 

Do you really have to authority to presume to know God's will.

 

Who's will is it? Yours, the church's or God's.

[Hate The Fake]

to me I still dont believe in murder no matter what name they try to cover it up with. (abortion, Euthanasia)

This only proves that you don't ask questions of your beliefs.

 

What is murder? The taking of a life.

What is life?

Is a foetus alive?

If someone chooses to die is it murder to help them?

 

If you can definately answer all those questions, start asking why. Why is a foetus alive? Why is it murder to help someone die?

 

Do you really have to authority to presume to know God's will.

 

Who's will is it? Yours, the church's or God's.

 

Whos to say 1 life is more important then the other?

Whos to say what cons!@#$%^&*utes life? Brainwaves? HeartBeats?

Why would anyone want to kill someone else, even its their will?

[Bak]

Whos to say 1 life is more important then the other?

Whos to say what cons!@#$%^&*utes life? Brainwaves? HeartBeats?

Great questions, let's look at them a little bit deeper.

 

Currently it's impossible for a human to exist without destroying some forms of life. On a small scale, your immune system destroys bacterial life constantly. You personally kill countless insects. Indirectly you support the killing of large mammals for meat and necessary drug testing. It's not the destruction of life that you're protesting, but rather the destruction of human life. What makes humans unique that they should be preserved? Is it a heart beat? No. Brain waves? No. The main thing that separates humans from animals, from insects and bacteria, is consciousness.

 

But then it's still not okay to kill someone as soon as they are sleeping (unconscious). My personal conclusion is that it's not just consciousness in the present, but consciousness in the past, and potential for consciousness in the future. In this sense, it's okay to pull the plug on a brain-dead woman since there is not possibility for future consciousness. Additionally, before a human becomes conscious, killing them is no different than killing a mammal. The difficulty is finding the point where this consciousness begins. My earliest decision-making memories occurred when I was around 6, however I've heard people say it's much earlier. There's obviously some variance here from human to human, and we want to make sure we get a safe lower bound. I'm not suggesting we allow killing all babies under 6 years old. However, I've yet to meet anyone who claims to have been conscious at the moment of conception.

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to kill someone else, even its their will?

To answer this question, explore the question of why killing is wrong (set biblical reasons aside for a minute).

[rootbear75]

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/vid...-debate/768721/

that was hilarious (watched it on Hulu.com however)

 

<3 Joe the Plumber and his friend Simon the Unicorn.

[AstroProdigy]

I don't see why someone voting based on their religious beliefs is any worse than voting based upon what I guess you would consider personal beliefs. For most stalwartly religious people, their religious beliefs are their personal beliefs.

 

If Hate feels that McCain is a better christian or "closer to Jesus" or however you want to phrase it, and because of that he feels he will uphold the christian beliefs better, then I'd say he has a perfectly good reason to vote for McCain.

 

Honestly NBV do you really want to defend people who make all their decisions in life based on a set of 2000 year old !@#$%^&*umptions? Do you really think they're voting for the right reasons or that they're helping the system by being an absolute voting block for any conservative candidate no matter what they do? It's not just these people who are harming the system. All those wishy washy moderates who vote based on "who they'd like to have a beer with" should also take the time to educate themselves as does any other group that votes based on blatantly obvious fallacies. I have trouble respecting any of them let alone pretending their claims are just as legitimate as a rational person's.

 

It must be hard to be a democrat' date=' having your candidate have some of the worst relationships in political history. Between Ayers, Wright, and his slumlord friend. Guess when you go to racist church for 20 years you just quickly forget all the racism. Or when one of your friends is an extreme terrorist that must be as easy to forget. Lets not remember the fact that he gave his friend MILLIONS of tax payer dollars to build houses for the poor, and !@#$%^&*ed that up to you. Yea I may be voting for Mccain. But when obama cant awnser any of the above questions, then im reinforced as to why.[/quote']

Clearly a man who got all his talking points straight from the GOP and never bothered to think for himself a day in his life.

Edited October 20, 2008 by AstroProdigy

[NBVegita]