THIS JUST IN: SADDAM HUSSEIN CAPTURED!

[madhaha]

Maybe. But what is the longterm goal of this strategy? If the war was a sophisticated illusion from the outset, what was the chief purpose of the war?

 

Offtopic:

 

BSE is no biggie. There is no proven link between BSE and Scrapie. There is no proven link between BSE and new varient CJD. New varient CJD has killed a couple of hundred people over the decades we've been studying it. SARS has done more real damage in a single year.

 

Which is why I'm surprised that BSE is such an economic bombs-*BAD WORD*-. Another illusion?

[Aileron]

~sigh~

 

Okay, so you won't believe the media because its biased, but you will fall head over heals for every conspiracy theory somebody comes up with? Look, dates on a tree is hardly good proof that he was captured earlier, there could have been differences in the weather, the tree itself, the ground, etc. Besides, how do you positively know that the dates are ripe, the picture cannot be perfect, and a slight difference in tint could account for this. They could appear ripe and infact not be. The fact that he was dirty proves very little - when the strongest army in the world is after you, you probably don't have time to keep yourself really clean even if there are rooms available. As for the discrepencies with how much Hussein was cooperating, those opinions are both relative interpretations of each person's grasp on the situation. If I say that the text at the top of this website is green, and somebody else says its yellow, does it prove that the text doesn't exist and we are both lying? As for Hussein being disoriented, considering the ventihilation of that hole, I really doubt you would need nerve gas. Besides, that DISPROVES that three months earlier theory, because it would have worn off by now.

 

Congradulations oh enlightened one. You managed to prevent yourself from being brainwashed by the American media. Too bad you have instead been brainwashed by the European media and the conspiracy theorists. Brilliant.

 

Note to Bacchus: These were the idiots I was talking about.

 

As for that statue coming down. The scene was longer than what was aired. It started with a few Iraqis trying to pull down the statue, then the tank coming by. They just cut the first part out. That being said, it was still mostly a propaganda shot. A statue being pulled down isn't in and of itself newsworthy.

 

So what? Its war, a little propaganda is spread. As long as it isn't false information, its perfectly acceptible, just like advertising. In order for the statue to be wrong, you have to prove that the statue itself is still standing. Otherwise, it really means nothing.

 

As for the US training future Al Queda members, that means nothing as well. Alliances are made, alliances are broken. Time changes everything. At the time, it was the best option available. Without a crystal ball, I really don't know how one can tell which group of unstable middle eastern fundamentalist nutcases would turn on you a few decades down the line. We did what was the best decision at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

 

You people need to realise that the world isn't black and white, but a series of greys. Yes, the war in Iraq wasn't white, but it wasn't black either. It also was a lighter shade of grey than the next available option of containment. If you keep waiting around for a perfectly white option to come around, the world is going to p!@#$%^&* you by.

[mr. scruff]

I dont understand america's obsesion with being the worlds policman. Thats what the Un is for, everything should go through them.

[Bacchus]

Maybe. But what is the longterm goal of this strategy? If the war was a sophisticated illusion from the outset, what was the chief purpose of the war?

Republican reelection maybe. I think there's a lot of personal interests that are ..."politicaly represented" in US politics. And the republican hard political line is tailored to profit them.

 

 

If some of you find it hard to believe that waging war and stuff can be justified by something as "triffle" as democracy, just have a look throughout history...it wasn't democracy maybe, but it was human leaders making war because they had personal interests that neede to be fulfilled. Same as anybody, i don't think the human spirit have changed very much.

 

 

Note to Bacchus: These were the idiots I was talking about.

 

I usually agrees with those "idiots"....and they are the one discussions are made of. I need them

 

so do you btw

[madhaha]

Aileron:

 

Virutual Jerusalum (the site the excerpt is from) is not what I would classify as "brainwashing from European media and conspiracy theorists". It gave sources and the source given has a clear personal involvment with the issue. Nevertheless, it does raise an interesting question.

 

Here is a followup from Aljazeerah (also NOT a european brainwashing m!@#$%^&* media etc. etc.)

 

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives...f%20Destiny.htm

 

Which gives us a nice clear picture (no tinting or other rationalisations). The counterargument given is that the tree is a Hilali date tree which fruits later in the year. Further research shows that young/fresh Hilali dates are indeed yellow, fruit later in the season and are indigenous to the region (although ripe Hilali dates are purplish as you can see from this site http://www.theproducehunter.com/productdisplay.asp?ID=1998) . Also from the Aljazeerah picture, we can see that the soldier is clearly dressed in winter garb which collapses the conspiracy theory somewhat. This doesn't mean the time of capture is unquestionable as our media sources are very limited and controlled, but it does tell us the window between Saddam's capture and the time the news was made public is small (no more than a month).

 

This is completely unconnected to conspiracy theories regarding the possible use of nerve agents. The hideaway was perfectly ventilated but then again the lack of natural lighting can lead to disorientation. Again there are discreprencies in our reports as the official story says that Saddam heard the soldiers comming and hid in the hole but the availibility of provisions, changes of clothing, weapons and other basic ammenities suggest that he Could have been down there for quite a length of time. We are not even certain that the images shown are the actual place the Saddam was captured. If we want to go the conspiracy theory route we can say that the whole thing was faked and that Saddam was captured long ago and brainwashed. We simply have no way of knowing and it would appear from reports that the locals have no idea of what is going on either. I'll try and get in contact with some.

 

The fall of the statue is completely staged. I've seen footage from another camera further back from the action and it is very clearly organised. The pedestrians in the area are showing slight signs of interest and concern. Surrounding the statue is a massive crowd of journalists, all armed with cameras (they were tipped off a couple of minutes before). We see a tank arrive with some American soldiers (this is where the footage is cut). They produce the flag which was supposedly from the WTC at 9/11, drape it on the statue and take some photographs before removing it. They then found some eager troublemakers (a small group that cheered the arrival of the tank with much jumping, screaming and firing of bullets into the air) and asked them to basically pose for the camera as they got a crane ready to topple the statue. The statue is pulled down, we see the fanatics doing their dance on top of the statue in the midst of a crowd (of journalists all with cameras) and we are told that America was welcomed with open arms and there was dancing in the street yadayadayada spontaneous outpouring of hatred etc.etc. -*BAD WORD*-. This is very clear misinformation. A direct lie and perversion of events. Then there was the whole Jessica Lynch affair which also had lots of highly suspicious elements. In my view, many of the conspiracy theories work because they are plausible and there is no way of proving/disproving them.

 

I have not yet drawn my conclusions unlike Mr. Scruff here and I DO follow up on my sources. Please do not lump me in the same group.

[MonteZuma]

Permanent manned base on the moon - a $100,000,000,000 tactic to divert attention from the doom and gloom of the US economy and the War on Terror and make Bush look like a visionary instead of an inept warmonger.

 

Manned mission to Mars - a $100,000,000,000,000 diversionary tactic - just in case the moon thing isn't sufficiently diversionary.

 

Bring on the election...

 

Sad.

[Killing Ape]

uh think again the mission to mars isnt 100 trillion dollars... i dont think the market capitalization of the world equals to 100 trillion. I've heard around the $1 trillion mark maybe alittle more or less.

The point is Bush is not crazy... eventually at least in the next century we will be going back to the moon, mars, and further... it's common sense. Just i think we should wait a few years until maybe i dont know the national debt lowers (if that ever happens) and the economy is at a stable level for a few years and the international space station is built and fully operational, and NASA does not have a tradgedy like the Columbia again, AND they improve technology a -*BAD WORD*- lot.

 

and finally, why is this in saddam hussein captured?

[Dav]

they wont send people tpo mars untill probes and landers can make it ok, begal2 has been lost in the latest mission

[MonteZuma]

uh think again the mission to mars isnt 100 trillion dollars...  i dont think the market capitalization of the world equals to 100 trillion.  I've heard around the $1 trillion mark maybe alittle more or less.

The point is Bush is not crazy... eventually at least in the next century we will be going back to the moon, mars, and further... it's common sense.  Just i think we should wait a few years until maybe i dont know the national debt lowers (if that ever happens) and the economy is at a stable level for a few years and the international space station is built and fully operational, and NASA does not have a tradgedy like the Columbia again, AND they improve technology a -*BAD WORD*- lot.

 

and finally, why is this in saddam hussein captured?

Did I add 2 or 3 to many zeros? Awwww. I am sorry for any distress this may have caused. But, how does that change the point of the argument?

 

We have no reason to go to the moon or mars in the foreseeable future. We should wait hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Slash and burn isn't a way of life that we should be using when it comes to planets.

 

As for your argument about cost....Will the national debt be lower in "a few years"? No it won't. Oh...Perhaps you left off a zero or two too?

 

AND finally, haven't you noticed that this thread went offtopic weeks ago?

 

Monte.

 

Edit: Did someone edit the previous post by Killing Ape? If so, thanks. I didn't much appreciate the tone.

[Yupa]

granted I don't want some -*BAD WORD*-er like Bush going to the moon

 

but if we don't bother to save this planet, we're gonna need someplace else to live

 

mars could be that place

[MonteZuma]

granted I don't want some -*BAD WORD*-er like Bush going to the moon

 

but if we don't bother to save this planet, we're gonna need someplace else to live

 

mars could be that place

Exactly. But if you spend a trillion dollars on Earth (and that figure could easily be out by more than an order of magnitude) instead of on a space flight, you will go a long way to fixing up those problems and significantly delay the need to look at Mars.

[Dav]

true, we have too many prblems on this plannet to worry about, but we also have a thiorst for knowlege, we desire to leaern more about space and mars is the next step.

[madhaha]

In other words: the media has become rather silent about Saddam. Thus people of the forum are slowly forgetting about the issue, kind of like afghanistan.