Guantanamo Bay

[PoLiX]

What it feels like to be a Guantanamo Bay Guard

http://www.esquire.com/features/what-it-fe...namo-guard-0808

I liked working night shifts, because whenever they were awake, I wanted to apologize to them. When they were sleeping, I didn’t have to worry about that. I could just walk up and down the blocks all night long.

 

There was usually one detainee who would lead the call to prayer at five in the morning. That person was in the very last cell. The detainees, they sang beautifully. It was so eerie to hear, because it was such a beautiful song, and to hear forty-eight detainees just get up in the morning and, in unison, sing this gorgeous song that I could never understand — because Arabic is way out of my range of possibility — it was really intense.

 

What it feels like to be a Guantanamo Bay Prisoner

http://www.esquire.com/features/what-it-fe...o-prisoner-0808

They used to beat everybody. There was a man — he was really old and couldn’t see and couldn’t hear. If the guards told him something to do and he didn’t do it because he couldn’t hear, they went into his cage and beat him up. They did this for a couple minutes, and after that they took him out and brought him to isolation. That happened to me as well, a lot of times.

 

http://www.esquire.com/features/wifl-08-ex...ok-excerpt-0808

"After the incident with the Koran, we went ahead and elected a leader. All of the prisoners were allowed to nominate a candidate. It was a secret vote—the Americans knew nothing about it. Out of 500 prisoners, ten men were chosen, and suggestions were collected and evaluated. Those ten men chose three other men, who in turn elected our leader. We called him the emir. No one but the three men who had elected him knew who he was. Officially this man was not our leader. We chose a spokesperson to deal with the Americans and to appear as out leader. In that way, the real emir could remain in the background, undetected.

 

I actually had heard about his book, but now I kinda think I might get it and read it. Not trying to start anything political here... just some good reading worth sharing.

[»doc flabby]

Its just wrong.

 

What I can't understand is some of the same americans who think drink, drugs and abortions are evil, seem to think this is ok.

 

If you support this you have no moral authority on anything.

Edited September 17, 2008 by doc flabby

[Dr Brain]

Its just wrong.

 

What I can't understand is some of the same americans who think drink, drugs and abortions are evil, seem to think this is ok.

 

If you support this you have no moral authority on anything.

 

By the same token, if you think that gitmo is evil and abortions are ok, you have no moral authority on anything.

 

The sub!@#$%^&*le couldn't be more true. There are two sides to every story, and what Polix posted was only one.

[FMBI]

No, what Polix posted was half of one side. He didn't post the attack dogs part, or the routine mental torture part, or the sleep deprivation part - all things that we (rightly) condemned as serious human rights abuses when done by the North Koreans or Vietnamese back in the day when we gave a !@#$%^&* about moral authority.

 

I suppose there is something to be said for keeping illegal, permanent, no-appeal (if Bush had his way) prisons, though - especially since the rate of power abuse and arbitrary arrests has been going through the roof in recent years. Never mind the fact that such prisons are counterproductive in the extreme (if you even use them against "the enemy"), or that there have been virtually no cases throughout history where valuable and extremely important knowledge was gained via torture, for the simple reason that the most important people are also the most loyal people. Tell me again why picking up random guys on the Iraqi streets and putting them in prison for four years is in our interests?

[»doc flabby]

By the same token, if you think that gitmo is evil and abortions are ok, you have no moral authority on anything.

The difference is i have never claimed to have any moral authority, to be better than other people, or attack people for not sharing my morals.

Alot of these people and America as a country have.

 

Incidentally I'm not in favour of abortions, however i don't think women have them on a whim, its a traumatic experience psycologically and will often affect them for the rest of their lives. I'd rather abortions carried out in a safe envrioment by medical professionals, who can give them proper advice (it might even make them change there minds) than end up with it being done by unqualified butchers which is what happened in the past...many women died. This however is an arguement for another thread...

 

My arguement is aimed firmly at the moral hypocracy that america has.

 

I think closing gitmo and having proper jury trials or releasing the people in there would do your country a world of good.

Edited September 17, 2008 by doc flabby

[Aceflyer]

By the same token, if you think that gitmo is evil and abortions are ok, you have no moral authority on anything.

 

Why is this? What gives you the moral authority to p!@#$%^&* such a judgment on people who "think that gitmo is evil and abortions are ok?"

 

I don't even see how gitmo and abortions are related, beyond the facts that both are (at least somewhat) controversial issues and both are (very broadly speaking) human rights issues.

 

The sub!@#$%^&*le couldn't be more true. There are two sides to every story, and what Polix posted was only one.

 

Then what, pray tell, is this other side that you allege that PoL didn't mention?

[Samapico]

!@#$%^&*meat sandwich

 

 

nuff said

[FMBI]

Why did I read that post while I was eating lunch?

[Cancer+]

It does sound like an interesting story.

 

!@#$%^&*meat sandwich

 

 

nuff said

 

LOL

[»freakmonger]

He also didn't post that the detainees get better medical care than the military down there..and WAY better care then they would get in their home countries. Lasik just for one. And thats not even a life threatening surgery....... and I can say this because I'm sure I'm one of the very few that vists ssforum or even knows that subspace is alive that has first hand experiance with gitmo.

 

But this should be an interesting read. I'll just sit back and see who weighs in with no personal experiance down there.

Edited September 17, 2008 by freakmonger

[Samapico]

Didn't know you were a terrorizer freak

 

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Guantanamo_Bay_David_Hicks_Cell,_Reading_Room_Inset.jpg

Cleaner than my own room

[Aceflyer]

He also didn't post that the detainees get better medical care than the military down there..and WAY better care then they would get in their home countries. Lasik just for one. And thats not even a life threatening surgery....... and I can say this because I'm sure I'm one of the very few that vists ssforum or even knows that subspace is alive that has first hand experiance with gitmo.

 

But this should be an interesting read. I'll just sit back and see who weighs in with no personal experiance down there.

 

Thanks for the info. I'd heard rumors about the great medical care being given to gitmo detainees, but was unsure if this was, in fact, true until now.

 

So the gitmo detainees get great medical care. That's nice. But... was it their choice to give up their freedom and liberty and live in a prison for an extended, unspecified amount of time in exchange for great medical care while in prison? Would you voluntarily choose to go to prison for an extended, unspecified amount of time in exchange for great medical care while in prison? I sure wouldn't.

 

I agree that this thread should be an interesting read. I freely state that I have no personal experience from down there. By the same token, I do not make any claim that I have firsthand experience with or firsthand knowledge of gitmo.

 

-Aceflyer

[PoLiX]

I'd agree with Gitmo being fully ok, if it wasn't for the fact how many of them down there have been released innocent after all the years of torcher they put up with.

[X`terrania]

I sort've back abortions, really.. I mean, if you're not going to be able to accept a child into your life then why even bother having them, they're yours by blood-relation and the fact that you have to carry them around for nine months.. eh.

[Aceflyer]

I'd agree with Gitmo being fully ok, if it wasn't for the fact how many of them down there have been released innocent after all the years of torcher they put up with.

 

I agree. The problem with gitmo is that too many innocent people were caught up in it, and locked up there without due process of law, for years.

[Confess]

The idea that we can have a place where we can detain *TRUE TERRORIST* without due process? Good. The fact that we cant define terrorist properly? Bad.

 

If the government cant control their power - get rid of the power, so you can get rid of the government. How do you think our founding fathers did it? They came to america, removed most of the power they could, started a revolution, ended in a war.

[rootbear75]

Request: Move -> World Discussion

 

just seems like that sorta thing

[Sketter]

He also didn't post that the detainees get better medical care than the military down there..and WAY better care then they would get in their home countries. Lasik just for one. And thats not even a life threatening surgery....... and I can say this because I'm sure I'm one of the very few that vists ssforum or even knows that subspace is alive that has first hand experiance with gitmo.

 

But this should be an interesting read. I'll just sit back and see who weighs in with no personal experiance down there.

 

 

Do tell us of your experience gitmo. I think a lot of would like to know what exactly you experienced.

I know I do.

 

 

Edit: Has anyone seen "taxi to the dark side" by Alex Gibney?

There is some insight of what happens at gitmo.

Torrent it, i think it's worth it.

 

Sketter

Edited September 18, 2008 by Sketter

[Lera]

Its just wrong.

 

What I can't understand is some of the same americans who think drink, drugs and abortions are evil, seem to think this is ok.

 

If you support this you have no moral authority on anything.

 

 

hmm so is it bad to think Guantanamo Bay is bad, but abortions are ok? :X

[»doc flabby]

hmm so is it bad to think Guantanamo Bay is bad, but abortions are ok? :X

http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic...st&p=234198

 

Prehaps i need to explain this again. I don't think either of them are good.

The difference is i've never claimed my morals are better than other peoples. Or that my country's values are better than yours.

 

I think a great example of what's wrong with America is if you watched Russell Brand at the MTV awards. He toned his !@#$%^&* down to 1% of what hes like over here and still he had to make an apology because he made a joke about your president and "purity" rings MTV received so many complaints. The same country that vilifies paedophilia is the same one encouraging and promoting the sexualisation of your children - why the !@#$%^&* do you have beauty pageants for little girls. The same country that has a "war on drugs" and vilifies illegal drug users is the same country where more people are hooked on "legal" prescription drugs. The same country that promotes purity and virginity is the same country that exploits women and produces and uses the most pornography in the world. It is also the same country which has the largest number of child pornography websites. The same country that criticises china for its human rights record is the same on that is locking people up without trial. The same country is the one that criticises Russia for invading a sovereign nation, is the same country that invaded Iraq.

 

This is why the morality of your country is shot. Its do as do, not do as I say.

When you stop preaching to other people and sort your own !@#$%^&* out, other countries might start to listen to you on moral issues.

Edited September 18, 2008 by doc flabby

[Lera]

heh....i didn't read everything

 

thanks for pointing out the obvious >.>

[Samapico]

The same country that criticises china for its human rights record is the same on that is locking people up without trial.

And most likely the one that actually buys the most stuff from China as well

[Suicide_Run]

Humans are like this, we say things about what other people are doing but we also do it ourselves.

 

But yea, it certainly does suck for people who got into Gitmo and was innocent.

[Sketter]

Doc, well said.

 

But at the same time, I'm sure you can apply those examples to other country's, but none the less food for thought.

 

Here is a trailer of the movie i was talking about.

 

Taxi to the dark side

[Drake7707]

Abortions = good

Euthanasy = good

 

Messing with (foreign) people because they are a potential 'security risk' without actual evidence = bad

Having secret bases & prisons in foreign countries such as in poland (iirc) = bad