Palin

[Aceflyer]

More breaking news: it seems that Palin tapped state funds meant to be used for official travel for more than 300 nights she spent at home [1]. While her actions are arguably legal, they do imply a certain lack of scruples on her part, perhaps. Edited September 9, 2008 by Aceflyer

[CRe]

More breaking news: it seems that Palin tapped state funds meant to be used for official travel for more than 300 nights she spent at home [1]. While her actions are arguably legal, they do imply a certain lack of scruples on her part, perhaps.

 

"a leader who put the state jet on sale on eBay and drives herself to work." - I laughed at that part. Good find.

[Hoch]

She's opposed to reliable contraception (either that or she seriously lacks common sense). Reference: her fifth pregnancy' date=' in her 40s, and her daughter's out-of-wedlock teen pregnancy at 17.[/quote']

What does that mean reliable contraception?

 

She's most likely politically corrupt. Reference: Troopergate incident.

Most likely? So she is not corrupt' date=' or is it a guilty before innocent

thing? I see your political ninja's have obained a copy of a report

that hasn't even been issued yet.

 

She has worked tirelessly as a lifetime NRA member to allow indiscriminate hunting of wildlife in Alaska.

Don't try to sex-up or demonise hunting by calling it indiscriminate.

The woman likes to hunt. If you don't, then good for you too. Must

be a very important issue for you then. Okay.

 

She's spent millions of dollars of (Alaska) state funds on aerial hunting of wolves and bears' date=' dollars that should have been spent on, for example, Alaska's failing school system.[/quote']

So now you know how Alaska should spend its money? When was your

election Ace, because I missed it. Late congratulations! Maybe Alaska

has a wolf and bear problem. The cities are surrounded by vast areas

of open wilderness.

 

She is a strong supporter of increased fossil fuel use' date=' having consistently supported drilling in the ANWR, use of coal-burning power plants, strip mining, etc.[/quote']

How is she a supporter of increased fossil fuel use? What are you

basing this on? I understand both presidential candidates are in

favour of exploring options for more drilling. What kind of coal

burning power plants are you talking about? Old ones? The new

clean burning ones that just opened in Germany this week? Define

or outline her policy on strip mining.

 

The most accurate description of her is "redneck".

What is your definition of a redneck? What is the generally accepted

definition of a redneck? Does being a redneck disqualify you from

holding office?

 

She is a religious ultraconservative. According to her' date=' U.S. forces are in Iraq on a "task that is from God."[/quote']

What was the context of her speech? Okay, this one is a freebie.

She said it at an address to ministry students. So, does her com-

ment disturb you and you lead you to believe that she is a religious

ultra-conservative, or the fact that she believes in G-d (generally)?

 

-Hoch

[Aceflyer]

What does that mean reliable contraception?

 

Unless you wish to argue that Bristol Palin and Sarah Palin wanted to get pregnant when they did (and if you argue this, then it shows that they both clearly lack common sense), then clearly their pregnancies were accidents caused by a lack of use of reliable contraception. In either case my statement is valid.

 

Most likely? So she is not corrupt, or is it a guilty before innocent

thing? I see your political ninja's have obained a copy of a report

that hasn't even been issued yet.

 

"Most likely" was clearly a qualitative personal opinion based on reported facts pertaining to the incident. Obviously the official report has not been issued yet.

 

Don't try to sex-up or demonise hunting by calling it indiscriminate.

The woman likes to hunt. If you don't, then good for you too. Must

be a very important issue for you then. Okay.

 

There was no attempt to "sex-up or demonise" anything. And there is no need to patronize me.

 

So now you know how Alaska should spend its money? When was your

election Ace, because I missed it. Late congratulations! Maybe Alaska

has a wolf and bear problem. The cities are surrounded by vast areas

of open wilderness.

 

That the wolves and bears in question posed a public safety threat to Alaskans is unsupported speculation. Unless you wish to provide sources backing this up.

 

And again there is no need to patronize me. If you do not agree that fixing a failing school system is more important than aerial hunting of wolves and bears, then that is an opinion that you are free to hold.

 

How is she a supporter of increased fossil fuel use? What are you

basing this on? I understand both presidential candidates are in

favour of exploring options for more drilling. What kind of coal

burning power plants are you talking about? Old ones? The new

clean burning ones that just opened in Germany this week? Define

or outline her policy on strip mining.

 

She clearly has consistently supported increasing the exploitation of Alaska's nonrenewable energy resources - even invoking God's name in reference to a natural gas pipeline project.

 

What is your definition of a redneck? What is the generally accepted

definition of a redneck? Does being a redneck disqualify you from

holding office?

 

You could, theoretically, hold white supremacist ideals and still hold office if you can get enough people to vote for you.

 

As for 'redneck', that is clearly a qualitative judgment.

 

What was the context of her speech? Okay, this one is a freebie.

She said it at an address to ministry students. So, does her com-

ment disturb you and you lead you to believe that she is a religious

ultra-conservative, or the fact that she believes in G-d (generally)?

 

Unless you wish to argue that Palin was lying or being insincere in that address (and there is no evidence that Palin was lying or being insincere), it must be !@#$%^&*umed that she, in fact, did agree with what she said.

 

-Aceflyer

[FMBI]

Bleh, so I've organized a list of real Sarah Palin facts.

 

- Spent most of her time in her hometown, rather than Juneau

- Skimmed money off the system using her children's names

- Was involved in an Alaskan secessionist party *

- Has religious views as far right as Buchanan or Pat Robertson

- Has absolutely zero !@#$%^&*ing knowledge of the world at large

- Is surrounded by Bush advisers (Neocon! Neocon! Neocon!)

- Was obsessed with secrecy and loyal staffers during her term

as governor, even hiring incompetent friends to $,000-per-

year positions.

- Has no trouble repeating the same bull!@#$%^&* lines over and over,

even if they've been recognized as false for 2+ weeks.

- Has dozens of conservatives playing dumb over the "Bush

doctrine" that they explicitly supported a few years back, before

they realized that sacrificing self-respect for a candidate was

worth it.

 

 

* Note that when you take this into account, and use it as your paradigm

for examining Sarah Palin, everything makes a little more sense. The

increased oil taxes for state revenue, the love affair with earmarks (but

the desire to break free of total dependence on them), the ignorance of

anything that doesn't directly involve her state - it seems to point in a

it's-my-state-and-I'll-secede-if-I-want-to direction.

[SeVeR]

Well here goes. If you weren't sure about Sarah Palin yet, here is what i've found out.

 

Palin's Religious Extremism:

 

1. She is anti-contraception, anti-abortion, anti-evolution, and a vocal opponent of gay-marriage.

 

2. She wants creationism taught in schools.

 

3. Her religious beliefs extend to a conviction that the Iraq war is God's will.

 

4. She grew up in a small, deeply religious town. She was inducted into the Pentecostal Church, with all it's charismatic preaching, the tears of joy, and the laying on of hands.... etc.

 

5. Then there is Palin's successful campaign to become mayor in 1996. All previous elections had revolved around such existential questions as how to improve the pavements and get litter off the streets. She ignored all that, campaigning instead against abortion and gun control and casting aspersions on her (Republican) opponent about his infrequent attendance of church.

 

6. In 1996 she attempted to get non-Christian books censored from her town Library and fired the librarian when she refused. Enough people in her town rebelled against the decision to get it rescinded.

 

7. Others were less fortunate. The museum director, city planner, six department heads within the council, and the public works director all quit within months of Palin's ascendancy, and the police chief was sacked outright (he sued for wrongful dismissal but lost).

 

8. She will not countenance sex education for teenagers, preferring instead to preach that abstinence is the only complete protection against pregnancy or venereal disease.

 

9. Palin is embroiled in a full-scale investigation by the Alaskan state legislature into allegations that she sacked the safety commissioner because he in turn refused to act against a police officer whom Palin wanted dismissed. (Does this corruption thing remind you of anything? Points 6 and 7)

 

10. She described the Bush-doctrine as his "worldview". I have debated with Christians on many occasions and this is a word that seems to have caught on with the more extremist variety, a word they use to explain why people think differently to themselves without asking any deeper questions.

 

Palin's Foreign Policy:

 

11. She said Russia's attack on Georgia was unprovoked. Even people who support Georgia would have to say it wasn't. Either she is uninformed, or is as extreme as McCain in her hatred for Russia. These two are a recipe for another Cold War.

 

12. She said that invading Pakistan to stop terrorists is a viable option. These terrorists have no means to threaten the US, yet she used that as the excuse for doing it. Such double standards when criticising Russia for similar and possibly more excusable actions, is deplorable in my opinion. Not to mention the flawed excuse for doing it.

 

Otherwise:

 

13. Republicans criticising the Obama remark would strike any intelligent person as being petty, shallow and taking advantage of political correctness in order to make a ridiculous and unwarranted attack. Only a stupid person would fall for it and be swayed by the Republicans, but everyone has a target audience...

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/0...2008.sarahpalin

 

 

Anyone who wants to put this woman one step away from being leader of the free world needs to take a good long look at themselves.

[FMBI]

10. She described the Bush-doctrine as his "worldview". I have debated with Christians on many occasions and this is a word that seems to have caught on with the more extremist variety, a word they use to explain why people think differently to themselves without asking any deeper questions.

 

Yeah, it is one of the many "code words" out there, much like "judicial activists" and "freedom of religion" carry special meanings to those "in the know." Having grown up in fundamentalist churches for my first 15 years, I would have to say it's things like this that disturb me the most.

 

Anyone who wants to put this woman one step away from being leader of the free world needs to take a good long look at themselves.

 

It's not even that. The fact that she carried out third-world-dictator style purges and nepotism in Alaska tells me that she's got big ambitions, and, what with her being the focus of the campaign now, I personally find it very likely that she will dominate McCain as much as Cheney dominated Bush. In fact, for the first time, I almost feel sorry for McCain - I still think he's changed into a lying arsehole, but he's far less of a lying arsehole than her.

[Bak]

Palin starts taking questions from audience

[Aceflyer]

Palin starts taking questions from audience

 

What an answer. She needs to provide more straight talk.

[Dr Brain]

I'm no McCain fanboy, but I'd like to provide some references that are seriously lacking.

 

About the "Iraq is a task from God", how about reading the entire quote instead of taking a biased journalist's word for it? Here's my reference (admittedly biased conservative, but that doesn't change the facts):

 

"Sarah Palin believes God told her to go to war with Iraq!"

 

There has been some hard-core journalistic malpractice on this one. The !@#$%^&*ociated Press ran this headline about a speech she gave at her church: "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'"

 

In the story' date=' they omit the first part of the sentence they're quoting along with the entire previous sentence for good measure.

 

Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

 

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

 

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama[/quote']

[Aceflyer]

I'm no McCain fanboy, but I'd like to provide some references that are seriously lacking.

 

About the "Iraq is a task from God", how about reading the entire quote instead of taking a biased journalist's word for it? Here's my reference (admittedly biased conservative, but that doesn't change the facts):

 

"Sarah Palin believes God told her to go to war with Iraq!"

 

There has been some hard-core journalistic malpractice on this one. The !@#$%^&*ociated Press ran this headline about a speech she gave at her church: "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'"

 

In the story' date=' they omit the first part of the sentence they're quoting along with the entire previous sentence for good measure.

 

Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

 

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

 

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama[/quote']

 

All the rationalization in the world doesn't change the fact that what Palin said was not simply a prayer asking God for guidance. Rather, Palin first asked people to "pray for" U.S. troops who are "striving to do what is right." (Incidentally, it should be obvious to most people that the Iraq war is far from being something that is right - in fact, it's something that is very wrong.) Palin then goes on to clearly state that "our leaders," namely the Bush Administration, are sending said U.S. troops to Iraq "on a task that is from God."

 

Palin was not simply asking God for guidance, as Obama was. Rather, Palin was clearly saying that the Bush Administration sent U.S. troops to war on a task that was from God. What troubles me is this: how does Palin know that the Iraq war was, in fact, a task that was from God? She wasn't merely asking people to pray that the Iraq war was a task that was from God. She was explicitly stating that the Iraq war is, in fact, a task that is from God, no further questions needed.

[SeVeR]

 

Here is the speech. Make of it what you will...

 

-EDIT- Dr. Brain, you have to be careful with that quote. The words are correct but i doubt the punctuation is. The changing of one full stop can make it mean something completely different. If you listen to the video, she would have to be a very poor public speaker to have said what you have quoted... in that particular way.

Edited September 20, 2008 by SeVeR

[Dr Brain]

3:30 to 4:00 is time of the quote in SeVeR's link for anyone that cares.

 

Her last sentence in the quote sums it all up. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

 

Ace, did you even read/watch the surrounding sentences? I can highlight them if it'll help you read them. Anyhow, they change the meaning completely. There's no "rationalization" since elementary grammar will suffice.

[FMBI]

Brain, your version of the story would be somewhat more believable if we hadn't also heard her tell troops going to Iraq that they were on a mission to fight the people who caused 9/11. Face it, the woman is a far-right nutcase with dozens of advisers cranking out any justification they can think of for her idiotic comments.

 

[Dr Brain]

I'm only taking on one point at a time. I'm not trying to prove anything about what she believes or doesn't believe, only what she's said. You don't like her? Fine. Everyone is en!@#$%^&*led to their opinion, but that doesn't mean you can get away with using bad or incomplete statements to convince other people.

[FMBI]

Forgive me, Brainer, for I have sinned.

 

I merely believed that, because of your insistence on context and getting the entire story, you might care to take the other half into consideration. Apparently you are not bothered by such petty distractions.

[Samapico]

she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles.

 

I get that too

 

But I don't have any missile to launch

[Dr Brain]

Forgive me, Brainer, for I have sinned.

 

I merely believed that, because of your insistence on context and getting the entire story, you might care to take the other half into consideration. Apparently you are not bothered by such petty distractions.

 

You provided no context for me to discuss. You made broad statements, so I responded in kind.

 

For example, you could have put up a quote about her talking to the troops, or defined exactly what it takes to qualify as a "far-right nutcase" (I'm guessing 90% of the country would qualify if you spelled it out).

[Aceflyer]

3:30 to 4:00 is time of the quote in SeVeR's link for anyone that cares.

 

Her last sentence in the quote sums it all up. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

 

Ace, did you even read/watch the surrounding sentences? I can highlight them if it'll help you read them. Anyhow, they change the meaning completely. There's no "rationalization" since elementary grammar will suffice.

 

Meaning isn't changed. Palin first asked people to "pray for" U.S. troops who are "striving to do what is right." (Incidentally, it should be obvious to most people that the Iraq war is far from being something that is right - in fact, it's something that is very wrong.) Palin then goes on to clearly state that "our leaders," namely the Bush Administration, are sending said U.S. troops to Iraq "on a task that is from God." Finally, Palin concludes by elaborating on the red sentence by specifying what, specifically, people should make sure they're praying for. This does not affect the green sentence at all.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Aceflyer

[SeVeR]

You can tell by the way she says the words that "also for this country" is apart of the previous sentence. There is no pause for the full stop and there is even a change in tone for the next sentence. Brain, your source has changed the meaning by changing the punctuation. "They are striving to do what is right also for this country".

 

Saying she hopes it's God's plan has nothing to do with who she thinks has set the task.

[Dr Brain]

SeVeR, if that is the case, how do you explain the last sentence? If you move the punctuation like you want to (completely separating the first two sentences), the last sentence STILL means she's hoping it's God's plan (and not stating that it is).

 

You can't have it both ways. Either it's God's plan and you have to ignore the last sentence like you've all been doing. Or it's not God's plan and she's asking people to pray that it is, which is what is happening.

 

Aceflyer, feel free to ignore everything I'm saying. After all, it makes the discussion go so much more easily for you.

 

P.S. Ace, it may be "obvious to most" on this board, where the population is predominantly extremely left, but try a visit to the real world. Or better yet, talk to someone who's personally been there. Please stop making your little digs without any evidence.

[SeVeR]

I referred to the last sentence in my post... read the last line.

 

God gave the task, and she hopes they're doing it in the way God wants them too.

[Dr Brain]

You seem to be arguing about what you think she meant rather than what she said. I'm talking about what she said (and only what she said), so there's really nothing I can do to change your mind, since no amount of sentence analysis will change your mind about what she meant and didn't say.

 

I took the easiest point in the thread to disprove, and everyone seems to have taken the view "never let facts get in the way of a good grudge". I won't bother continuing on to the other points. While they're also possible to disprove with facts, I'm guessing those facts are just as easy for you guys to ignore. So go on hating her for made up reasons, but don't be shocked when America likes her.

[SeVeR]

You think she means one thing by what she said, and i think she means something else,. Trying to p!@#$%^&* off your opinion as something more elemental will not fly.

 

What she said can mean two different things and you seem to be arguing that one meaning is more valid than the other. I've already told you that the punctuation in your quote does not fit with the actual speech, so what "she said" in your words is incorrect. The last sentence can mean two different things, as the word "plan" has no obvious meaning. Considering that she had just stated that Iraq is a task from God, how could she then contradict herself in the next sentence. Thus, i think my meaning is more valid: that the plan is the method for carrying out God's task. She is hoping that America is carrying out God's instructions in the way he wants, and that is where her uncertainty lies.

 

-EDIT- But yea, it's not obvious. Maybe she could be a better public speaker?

Edited September 21, 2008 by SeVeR

[Aceflyer]

P.S. Ace, it may be "obvious to most" on this board, where the population is predominantly extremely left, but try a visit to the real world. Or better yet, talk to someone who's personally been there. Please stop making your little digs without any evidence.

 

Why would the opinion of someone who's personally been there be more valid than mine - or anyone else's - when it comes to whether the Iraq war was warranted or not?

 

As for the rest, I agree with SeVeR's last post in this thread. Palin could have been clearer, but SeVeR's (and my) interpretation of her words seems to be the most logical interpretation.