Turf

[Dr Brain]

We've made some map changes, and we've changed the rewards around since last time, so I'm making a totally new topic for commenting.

 

Questions I'd like to see answered:

Was it fun?

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

Were the rewards good/fair?

How was the map?

Would you like to see it become the public arena? (after your other concerns have been addressed, of course)

 

Again, the turf arena won't be going public any time soon.

[OrangeeoZ]

We've made some map changes, and we've changed the rewards around since last time, so I'm making a totally new topic for commenting.

 

Questions I'd like to see answered:

Was it fun?

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

Were the rewards good/fair?

How was the map?

Would you like to see it become the public arena? (after your other concerns have been addressed, of course)

 

Again, the turf arena won't be going public any time soon.

 

Was it fun: So-so. Too big. Always though turf was like a battle between 1 flag like Trench Wars

Flagging is way more fun I think. Less running around

The reward was awesome at the beginning then it got good.

Map was too big

Keep it as sub-arena

[op2rules]

Questions I'd like to see answered:

Was it fun?

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

Were the rewards good/fair?

How was the map?

Would you like to see it become the public arena? (after your other concerns have been addressed, of course)

 

Was it fun? Somewhat, the multiple bases and runing around kinda got a bit annoying but thats the point of turf I guess. I rather flag games anyways, but it was fun trying something new. Maybe make it only 1 base or no bases?

 

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

Again, no. Only if it either had NO bases, or just one.

 

Were the rewards good/fair?

They might've been a little high at the start, but a 400$ decrease was insane. I say keep it nice n high but just only host it once in a while.

 

 

How was the map?

Too mixed. Either make it open entirely or only 1 or 2 bases. (love the ht without the blue crap!)

 

Would you like to see it become the public arena? (after your other concerns have been addressed, of course)

Maybe, but change the entire sector idea.

[mij]

1. lotta fun.

2. in some ways. main is still fun.

3. far far too high, even after the -400 adjustment.

4. fine.

5. maybe switch out every other week

 

my only concern is that the event seems to require a lot of lancs, which is not conducive to small flag games. it might be hard to start up a flag game with this style. second is that ID/transwarp prices need to be adjusted as they are much more powerful in turf than in current flag games (esp bc of base5).

 

i love the open ended base though. very creative.

 

also re: the boxy base, was confusing which tiles were walls and which tiles were flyovers.

[tiss61]

Was it fun?

It was fun, but not something I would play more than half an hour a day.

 

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

I wouldn't say yes, because I still perfer flagging way more.

 

Were the rewards good/fair?

The rewards were really high! But I guess that makes up for the "less" fun part.

 

How was the map?

The map was crazy! if this were to become a public arena then the map would AT LEAST have to shrink half the size!

 

Would you like to see it become the public arena?

Definitely a big NO NO! Altho I enjoyed the game and its rewards, replacing this in public... well... I see a lot of flaws and chaos.

[Sharpflame]

Aw, did I miss it? Man.

[Astyanax]

1.) Was it fun?

 

I enjoyed it because it was a nice change of pace from pub, particularly because there was more changes in scenery- multiple bases to defend prevented the stagnation of pub basing, where the defending team just holes up while the attackers get slaughtered. I'm not saying that this is ALWAYS the case, but this is the main drawback of pub basing imo MOST of the time, though it seems better now than right after the reset.

 

The rewards also added to my enjoyment; the current settings in pub seem austere compared to the last reset, so people are more concerned with making money than having fun (which leads to a lot of pretty lame behavior, imo). High rewards allowed people to feel like they weren't wasting time even if they were losing, which helped keep the game from ending with stacked/uneven teams. Still having a fast-paced game with an objective made it more interesting.

 

 

2.) Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

 

Yes, mostly because it's novel (to me). People with ships that were less upgraded could still impact the game as a whole (by attacking a weakly defended base)- something that's sorely missing in pub: the game is significantly less fun if your ship is weak because all you can do is die and make money by leeching off other people's kills. However, I do think turf would get old to me very quickly.

 

 

3.) Were the rewards good/fair?

 

The rewards were very nice- I enjoyed them immensely. Other players might hate me for saying this, but I thought the rewards were a bit high, considering that I was making far more money and doing far less.

 

On the other hand, I think that if rewards were lowered slightly, there should less of a difference between the maximum and minimum bounty. If the minimum bounty gets too small, people will quit once they start earning too little, reasoning (correctly) that they can make money more efficiently in pub. However, I don't think they should be reduced too much; after all, people want to have fun without worrying whether they could be making more money somewhere else.

 

Having higher rewards would make players feel like, well, they ARE being rewarded, particularly if turf remains a hosted game. I have no doubt that players would very much frown on paltry rewards (which is basically what's happening in pub after the last reset- the good ol' days are long gone, but in turf, it's possible to recreate that feeling, if only for a brief time).

 

 

4.) How was the map?

 

I liked the altered bases, partly because they were novel to me. Also, due to the fact that multiple bases must be defended, the significance of massive gun/bomblines was reduced, making progress easier and speeding up the pace of the game. Like I mentioned earlier, the reduced occurrence of the attacker/defender imp!@#$%^&*e in pub basing was nice. The roles were less clear cut, so a losing team could still be defending instead of only attacking. More fun imo.

 

 

5.) Would you like to see it become the public arena?

 

No. The fast pace game is great as an occasional hosted game, but imo, interest would pall quickly because it doesn't suit the role of a pub arena. For instance, once the game gets going, I don't doubt the teams would become stacked. While it would be easier to take one base from a stacked team, there's little chance of turning the tide, imo, so a losing team would continue to lose more money for a long time- not really fair to players who happen to enter later on.

 

Rewards on a timer are nice, but that sort of reduces the impact of making money on your own. True, people have to have flags, but I'm sure there would be people just leeching/afk if they can't actively play.

 

On the other hand, there's less of the greedy-!@#$%^&* behavior in turf because of the fast pace of the game. For instance, would a player want to waste so much money thoring/fielding/item spamming to take a base if there's a change they could lose it (or another) in short order? Some would, but it is a huge waste considering that the difference in earnings between attacking and defending are closer to parity.

 

Overall, I think turf would remain a better hosted game than a pub arena, but that doesn't mean that lessons can't be taken from it for the pub arena (like more parity in earnings between attacking/defending, less of a bimodal system (not just attacking OR defending, but more of a blend), and reducing the utility of items (I feel making defensive items free- or free with the requisite mount- is a good idea considering the fact that you can't force pub players to always play in the most logical fashion- they all play their own games, so there should be multiple avenues to have fun, instead of saying one MUST buy and use items to have any sort of impact at all, otherwise get the tar kicked out of you by better equipped players).

 

 

This is a lot of text. Still, perhaps my perspective could provide some insight.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Astyanax

[Deathmonger]

I'd like to see turf set up in the pub center to replace the mindless centerkilling. Everybody seems to like the center minibase--even though there's no point in fighting over it presently people still do it for fun. Put a turf flag in there, and put a couple more minibases with flags around center, and suddenly you've added a new gameplay element. I don't know if you can have both fixed and carryable flags in the same arena, but EG seems to make it work with King of the Ring.

[QUAX]

I'd like to see turf set up in the pub center to replace the mindless centerkilling. Everybody seems to like the center minibase--even though there's no point in fighting over it presently people still do it for fun. Put a turf flag in there, and put a couple more minibases with flags around center, and suddenly you've added a new gameplay element. I don't know if you can have both fixed and carryable flags in the same arena, but EG seems to make it work with King of the Ring.

 

 

Yeah I suggested perhaps several minibases in center with turf flags and/or goals.

[Unix]

I think turf is headed in the right direction, but it still needs to have less scattering.

[op2rules]

I'd like to see turf set up in the pub center to replace the mindless centerkilling. Everybody seems to like the center minibase--even though there's no point in fighting over it presently people still do it for fun. Put a turf flag in there, and put a couple more minibases with flags around center, and suddenly you've added a new gameplay element. I don't know if you can have both fixed and carryable flags in the same arena, but EG seems to make it work with King of the Ring.

 

 

Yeah I suggested perhaps several minibases in center with turf flags and/or goals.

 

 

Oh my god. I LOVE this idea! It would make center just so fun and amazing! Make more bigger minibases with a turf-flag at the end of it all around center. Make the rewards maybe 25$ per flag in a FULL pub W/basing OR 150$ per flag FULL pub W/o basegame.

[Deathmonger]

Also it would give annoying flankers something more worthwhile to do than be annoying flankers during basing games.

[tiss61]

i had a idea! maybe take the turf base to center in a corner or something. then when flaggames are over mods can turn on the prize reward to keep people going and keep the fun in HS! but the prize is obviously should be a lot less, so at least there's something to do rather than just sit in spec or fly out of safety and shoot people which u can do in ALL other zones Edited July 1, 2008 by tiss61

[Dr Brain]

It's not really possible to do turf and normal flagging in the same arena.

[op2rules]

Then Yes, I am totally for making this a turf styled zone and not flag games.

 

Here are 2 very very good reasons.

 

1. Constant ammo cost + the turf makes for a pretty !@#$%^&* nice zone

2. The game literally never ends, so the 'game' wouldnt just be over and everyone leavs.

[mij]

i second the king of the hill a la eg idea

[tiss61]

turf is fun yes but what about around midnight and no one's around? can someone just grab all the flags and go afk spinning all night? and no mods would know. then the next morning that person is a millionare!

[Dr Brain]

Doesn't work unless there are 10 players playing.

[tiss61]

so you mean when there's less than 10 players that mean HS is in shut off mode? since u cant do anything but center?

[Dr Brain]

Read your post, then read my post.

[Acer]

Was it fun? Yes

Was it more fun than main arena flagging? Yes

Were the rewards good/fair? Yes when it was like 1k for like 13 flags or w.e and the losing team would get like 400/300 for it..Then yes..

How was the map? I liked the map, I liked the bases with two entices.

Would you like to see it become the public arena? Yes, I hope in the future turf will take over.

[Sim]

We've made some map changes, and we've changed the rewards around since last time, so I'm making a totally new topic for commenting.

 

Questions I'd like to see answered:

Was it fun?

Was it more fun than main arena flagging?

Were the rewards good/fair?

How was the map?

Would you like to see it become the public arena? (after your other concerns have been addressed, of course)

 

Again, the turf arena won't be going public any time soon.

 

new turf is awesome nice job

[Gar]

Was it fun? VERY FUN!

Was it more fun than main arena flagging? By far, yes.

Were the rewards good/fair? Definitely kept me playing and ignoring my girlfriend at the cost of a 2 hour fight later and no chipotle that night

How was the map? Liked the map quite a bit, I like the distribution of flags - some open, some in a one-entrance base, some in a two-entrance base. Really gives the weaker team a chance to disrupt the stronger team's lockdown.

Would you like to see it become the public arena? Yes, I hope in the future turf will take over. Eliminate runwinning forever!

 

 

I believe Turf is superior because it

1: Dampens the effect of a stacked team. What happens at equilibrium is that one super team has a lanc in each base and the entire super team switches to the base/lanc that is getting attacked. This both allows the super team to lock down the arena if they're good enough AND gives the weaker team a chance to 'spike' one area by concentrating an attack there in the 'lag time' before the entire super team can summon or attach to defend. Also, brickwarping and lanc clearing are finally valid tactics (i.e. you can no longer grief with them because you're supposed to do them.)

 

2: Adds strategy to inter-team conflict. Current basing's only strategy is the 'Lemming flood', i.e. everybody attach then fly at the enemy spamming until they die, repeat. Turf is far superior for obvious reasons.

 

3: Clears away all the illogical aspects of Hyperspace's setup. Currently, 'winning' a flag game is a BAD idea because it kills the pop AND makes you less money. Being too succesful actually hurts you - clearing the enemy team ruins your cash flow. Brickwarping the enemy lanc hurts you. This is... silly for a game, really.

 

4: Creates teamwork and community where none existed before. Also, under this idea, privs take the place they should: a priv freq can hold one base with its extreme power advantage, but it just doesn't have the man power to do more. This allows a priv freq to carve out a place for itself and gain money over long periods of time (which they tend to play for), and also prevent a 20 flag lockdown by pubs, but at the same time the priv freq CANNOT ruin the game for everyone else or dominate the entire zone. Perfect.

 

 

 

I believe Turf has some problems:

1: ID and TW need to be removed entirely or modified to take you only to the empty sectors and base 8. They are simply too powerful at ANY cost. Worse than that, they are aggravating. Little cloaking sharks that TW into your base and steal flags while you basically chase them for an hour are terribly aggravating. Aggravation is the last thing you want from a game.

 

2: The 'leaky bucket' effect in combination with cloak. The 'leaky bucket' feeling happens in the two-entrance bases and the open sector: you end up just chasing sharks and warbirds around while they steal flags without trying to hold them and irritate the crap out of you. This is fine. Can't be changed. The problem occurs in combination with cloak: the combination of X-radar and a fast ship is extremely rare AND! it's very difficult to catch cloakers that are just running and stealing flags instead of trying to fight. Cloak needs to come with some SERIOUS movement nerfs, as bad as -6 speed/-6 maxspeed. When you can't rely on your base to keep cloakers close enough to kill, you pretty much can't stop them.

 

3: Fields. The bases are smaller - fields are thus extremely powerful. One field can win you a base if simply place it where it overlaps the majority of the base. This is fine in small instances because there ARE multiple bases, but it WILL just become the way combat is done if it isn't dealt with now.

 

So basically deal with the remnants of how flagging is now, and try to remove as much aggravation as possible. Hate to mention privs again, but last night's Turf was extremely fun and everyone was having a great time until a certain Priv joined and immediately proceeded to TW his cloaking ad shark to each base, cloaking around stealing flags without trying to fight and fielding every base. It took all of five minutes for him to TW to each base and LF from outside or coffin maker inside and ruin the flag game. It got so bad that he actually had to be spec'd by Boldot (at least that's what I understand happened). So there is direct evidence of the problems I've spoken of. Other than that, Turf was extremely fun.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Gar