Thors ruining basing again

[weasel]

if people quit because they get owned by better ships than let them quit instead of trying to fix it. that's pretty much the whole point of the zone. giving people fission and whatever terrible sublight and other crap they can get with 45k and no exp really wont make a noticeable difference. zone is fine the way it is except ammo idea is pretty terrible all around. makes it harder for newbs to make money cuz they have to use half on ammo and people with higher exp wont fight them at low pop times cuz they LOSE money killing them. ammo should automatically turn off when pop is under 5 imo

[fishy]

I don't see thors being a problem.

 

It is NOT EXPENSIVE to make a ship that can double rep thors. In the same way thorers spam thors by thoring, dying out, then reattaching or thoring, warping, restocking, and thoring again, a rep ship could rep, die out/warp, restock, and rep again. The defense is just as strong as the offense. May I say that reps spamming are even more powerful, since they also help fend off the nme ships attacking in front.

 

Think of TrenchWars; sharks reship just to rep jav bombs. By the same token, players can make rep ships for the same purpose. It's just that people are not used to the idea of reshipping for defense (but only on the offensive) so they complain. Also, please compare the cost of a thor and a rep. Just imagine two or three players spamming reps for their team; that is a very strong defense that even thors can't defeat.

 

Whoever started this thread is a complete idiot for not considering what I just said about. End of story and enjoy my triple thors.

[Suicide_Run]

I think your forgetting thoring can earn you money/exp and repping does not.....which is why people don't rep alot.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

I don't see thors being a problem.

 

It is NOT EXPENSIVE to make a ship that can double rep thors. In the same way thorers spam thors by thoring, dying out, then reattaching or thoring, warping, restocking, and thoring again, a rep ship could rep, die out/warp, restock, and rep again. The defense is just as strong as the offense. May I say that reps spamming are even more powerful, since they also help fend off the nme ships attacking in front.

 

Think of TrenchWars; sharks reship just to rep jav bombs. By the same token, players can make rep ships for the same purpose. It's just that people are not used to the idea of reshipping for defense (but only on the offensive) so they complain. Also, please compare the cost of a thor and a rep. Just imagine two or three players spamming reps for their team; that is a very strong defense that even thors can't defeat.

 

Whoever started this thread is a complete idiot for not considering what I just said about. End of story and enjoy my triple thors.

1. If the solution is to have people sit around JUST to rep thors, then there is obviously a balance issue.

 

2. And currently, thors can (and usually will) go FAST. If you aren't paying complete attention expect to get hit.

 

If thors were slower more people would rep them when they see them. I can't rep what I can't see...

[Unix]

the ship's bomb speed are what determine the speed of thors (that and the momentum of the ship).

[Gar]

With the new attach command's total lack of delay and lag, thors have gotten even worse. They can be fired almost constantly with the right hotkey setup. Antiwarp helps but does not solve the problem.

 

Implement a new field that absorbs Thors.

[Unix]

Antiwarp solves it since they cant warp back to center and buy, they have to die before they can get new thors.

 

Have someone BLOCK the thors for the team.

[Gar]

Block giant prox bombs?

 

As for antiwarp, people have just been going out of AW range in the corner of the base and firing thors from there. !@#$%^&*O? They fly at light speed and through walls!

[Unix]

Giant prox bombs are easy to block for. Just stand in the path of the thors, duh?

 

Antiwarp is hard to avoid, it's bigger than most people realize. Even in the older base three, it was hard to avoid antiwarp, and base three was huge back then.

 

If you can see them on radar, they're probably antiwarped.

[Suicide_Run]

Have someone BLOCK the thors for the team.

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

 

Anywho...thats a failed solution.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[Deathmonger]

I don't see thors being a problem.

 

It is NOT EXPENSIVE to make a ship that can double rep thors. In the same way thorers spam thors by thoring, dying out, then reattaching or thoring, warping, restocking, and thoring again, a rep ship could rep, die out/warp, restock, and rep again. The defense is just as strong as the offense. May I say that reps spamming are even more powerful, since they also help fend off the nme ships attacking in front.

 

Think of TrenchWars; sharks reship just to rep jav bombs. By the same token, players can make rep ships for the same purpose. It's just that people are not used to the idea of reshipping for defense (but only on the offensive) so they complain. Also, please compare the cost of a thor and a rep. Just imagine two or three players spamming reps for their team; that is a very strong defense that even thors can't defeat.

 

Whoever started this thread is a complete idiot for not considering what I just said about. End of story and enjoy my triple thors.

 

Here's a one-way ticket on the Phailboat back to Trench Wars.

 

1. With the huge blast radius you are likely to rep thors into teammates and get smacked anyways. This is the major reason why reps are less effective counters to thors in this config than in prior ones.

 

2. Reshipping in defense makes little sense when you are trying to bounty. This makes the gameplay comparison to TW irrelevant--defenders in HS defend to make money, not to say 'HAHA NOOB-U GOT PWNED'.

 

3. Thors make money, reps don't.

[spidernl]

Sigh, the only serious problem that's ruining basing is the fact that 99/100 basing games are stacked as !@#$%^&*.

You'll have a bunch of people whose max money amount they ever had is $20000, at one side, and people who have 4 AD-armed ships at the other.

 

Fix stackedness = Fix basing.

Edited July 22, 2008 by spidernl

[Gar]

Go Turf = fix basing = fix stackedness.

[Noobclear Missile]

Thor storms can be annoying, but antiwarp clears that up. At least it would if ?attach wasn't broken. Having a lanc with good armor can block quite a few thors. It's not glamorous but lancing never is. I'm sure it's been mentioned but I'm not big on reading 4 pages of text to catch up so...

 

Right now ?attach is the biggest problem with basing, one leak and you've lost 2 flags. Two leaks and you have to find the enemy base. Three leaks and your done... if it's a priv freq, you'll have to do a lot of running to stop them. By then it's not a flag game anymore. Once ?attach is fixed, there'll still be runwin problems but the bigger problem is that when a flag game actually starts, the top players in HS will bunch up on one team to bty. Making the rich players richer and the poor more frustrated. If something happens and they do lose, they'll hop. Stacking is just annoying and causes other teams to quit. Don't believe me? Click here

[QUAX]

lol @ engine failure trying to cloak in.

[mij]

lmao @ arnk

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Well sinc Rare locked the most recent thread she must refering to this... anyways I have a new opinion on thors nowadays...

 

 

GET RID OF THEM

 

 

Or 2: Restrict thors to Lancaster, make thors cheaper, and lower price of siege mount, something along these lines here

Edited August 14, 2008 by Relos

[vetta64]

I seem to remember this exact same discussion thread almost word for word, like oh say 6 months or so ago.

 

solution: buy shock

Edited August 14, 2008 by vetta64

[Kilo]

Solutions: coming soon.

[might]

I think raising the price of them may help but if you want to take a little different approch to this, move the spot you buy thors at from the center safe to scrap & salvage. Just a thought.

 

~mighty+

[Suicide_Run]

Unless this change has been made for a while, thor has a "bombdelay +75!" setting.

 

Does that mean that each thor you carry gets a 75 delay? I guess its a good start for making thor less rigged.

[Noobclear Missile]

Even if 2 thors = +150 delay. Once you shoot the first thor, it's back down to +75 delay. To be honest, the delay isn't working out, it isnt detering anyone from thoring and since you can shoot the first one slow, second one fast, they can both hit at the same time. I say thor = $200+. No less since it's the people who are already rich spamming them >.>

[Kilo]

Raising the price will not solve any problems, it will at best delay them, and can introduce more (such as a cluster of stacked team ships being undefeatable because not enough people will be willing to spend the money, thus making bad flag games worse.) The solution will be more progressive and as a result will take a bit more time to implement.

[Suicide_Run]

Just increasing price will lead to what arnk said. The bombdelay isn't perfect but at least you don't get a cluster of thors all the time. While you can time the thors, how many people actually make it work?

 

Not sure if its possible but heres a suggestion: Having a siege mount causes

A.) Kill Reward: -35% (% varies)

B.) Exp Earned from Kills: -2 (Wont go below 0)

C.) Stackable

And maybe D.) Reduce Team Reward Ratio

 

So if you have 2 siege mounts, your money gained from kills drops by 70% and your initial exp gained from kills will drop by 4. Meaning you will only get 1/2 exp if the enemy you kill gives an initial 5/6 exp.

Seeing how most people use thors to get a quick income or exp boost, this will negate that effect but allow people to use it to destroy an enemy bombline/gunline if needed.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[Noobclear Missile]

Just increasing price will lead to what arnk said. The bombdelay isn't perfect but at least you don't get a cluster of thors all the time. While you can time the thors, how many people actually make it work?

Even if you dont wave the thors to hit at the same time, there are so many people thoring right now that it doesnt matter. Even with the delay it's just a constant stream of thors being thrown at you.

 

Not sure if its possible but heres a suggestion: Having a siege mount causes

A.) Kill Reward: -35% (% varies)

B.) Exp Earned from Kills: -2 (Wont go below 0)

C.) Stackable

And maybe D.) Reduce Team Reward Ratio

 

Good ideas (if possible) the only issue with D is that people will change ships before they win so the siege mount nerf wont take effect. I do like A and B though.

 

Only other thing i can think of for at least a temp fix is to limit the ammount of siege mounts to 1 per ship.