Thors ruining basing again

[mij]

well first of all, what i posted was a series of steps, not separate solutions.

 

second, why is it a big deal to just accept the fact that nubs can't rush? that kind of comes inherent to an RPG style zone

[Suicide_Run]

Actually I don't really have a problem with poor people not rushing with items. I have a problem with poor people bounty-ing behind lanc in a weak ship w/o antiwarp/xradar + eating up summon when they die.

 

Another problem I think we have is really rich players that have a bunch of maxed/near maxed out ships and tons of money still continuously hopping on defending teams.

 

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder. I rather have new players hop then other players hopping and ending up with stacked freqs.

 

But meh, I hope theres some development going on that will solve these problems. I just hop that Brain is still thinking/working on the equip/unequip item module thingy.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[9vgnc3eZ01]

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder.

 

..........

 

Ok, if their sole purpose is to leech, sure. Especially on the defending freq.

[Gar]

Newbies in HyperSpace v. Arnk - ah, what a grand problem. They have it too hard, but nobody can figure out exactly what the problem is. Now that my Warbird has Flash drive and full items (no capac), I know that it is impossible for a newbie to kill me. They might get lucky sometimes, but in general, it just won't happen enough for them to be a serious threat. The funny thing is, I'm sure players like Unix feel the same way about midlevel players like me - against supermaxed ships, alien tech, all the abuses that they employ, their unmatched teamwork, and their choice of using any ship they like, midlevel players just don't stand a chance.

 

Aside from any critique of this system, there's one glaringly obvious problem here: newbies can only kill other newbies. Worse, midlevels can kill newbies and midlevels, and privs can kill all three levels of player. This means that for any population online, because they have more people to kill and bounty off of, privs will advance exponentially faster in cash than midlevels, who advance exponentially faster than newbies. That's how privs have millions, while I have 500k, and newbies have trouble getting 5k or 10k.

 

This description is generalized enough that you can already point out a solution: enable newbies to fight other newbies more often, while trying to reduce how much privs kill them. This would flatten the money curve in a beneficial manner. This is very difficult to do, however, given that privs are the kind of people that tend to abuse, so a newbie-only arena would surely have veteran alts in it raping newbs to rack up cash to ?give to the vet.

 

So what do we do?

 

Honestly, I'd just slap a band-aid solution on it for now until something elegant comes up. Raise the ?give minimum to $50,000 instead of $10,000, and start every new account off with $45,000. Skip them straight past the initial phase where the least skilled players are forced to use garbage items to try to compete with veteran-piloted teaming godships.

[Deathmonger]

Anyway since nobody thinks it's a solvable problem I've decided to build up my thorwarring ship and sit back and shoot thors at people. Woohoo.

[Astyanax]

Though only obliquely on topic, maybe make a beginner's mount that takes up 2 mount slots and prizes a free repel each life.

 

In a way, it's similar to the design of ammoless guns/bombs: something is sacrificed to gain the ammoless trait. Instead of a reduced rate of fire, the beginner's mount would sacrifice an additional mount slot and a burst (compared to a defense mount) for a low price and the ammoless trait. For new players, this would aid survivability and not harm their income. However, as they advance in experience and earn more money, these not-so-new players might consider selling the beginner's mount to gain greater functionality (such as more repels and/or other items) from their mount slots.

 

A repel would be a minor help to new players during centering, if only to buy a few extra seconds of life. Odds are that they will still end up dying, but there's a chance for them to run- to a teammate or for cover, perhaps.

 

Currently, new players play a very passive role in basing, imo. A beginner's mount allows them to take a more active role and assist their team during basing, though it would make for a bit more repel-spam. On the other hand, there would still be less than before the reset since the beginner's mount takes up both mount slots, so it's only one repel per life.

 

And that one repel could help against a rain of thors, though it's not enough by itself to render the tactic completely useless.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Astyanax

[Mat Cauthon]

from what i can see from restarting a new account, money isnt a problem for new people, its the exp thats hard; usually one base game earns a new person more money than they have the exp to buy with. Buying double thors and salvo will only take a little time leeching in a base game, and is almost the only way to gain fast exp to buy better equipment. And gar, while it is easy for your adverage so called "midlevels" to kill "newbies", after 5k exp the ship have pretty much been maxed out so there really isnt much difference in the ship strengths anymore. So the "priv" dont have much advantage over the "midlevels" except in skill.

[Gar]

And gar, while it is easy for your adverage so called "midlevels" to kill "newbies", after 5k exp the ship have pretty much been maxed out so there really isnt much difference in the ship strengths anymore. So the "priv" dont have much advantage over the "midlevels" except in skill.

lol, patently ridiculous. It takes enormous amounts of money and xp to truly max multiple ships, not to mention privs also have the advantage in their team skills and abuse skills. Here's an example.

 

Last night, I minibased by myself in my Spider. Given my reputation in the zone, dozens of people pretty much suicide themselves to me trying to kill me in revenge, and things were going great (bounty > 200 at this point in the story). Then one of the gods, ever-watching from Mount Olympus, decided to leave spec and destroy me for my impudence in trying to gain cash. Pity came at me with a warbird, trying that 'circling' cheese that warbirds do to slow rotating spiders. Whoops, turns out I'm a good Spider pilot, and Pity fails, dies. At this point, Pity shipchanges and comes back with a Spider. Mine is superior, he dies. He shipchanges again, comes with a Weasel. EMP cheese doesn't work out, he dies. He shipchanges, comes at me with a cloaking ad burst shark. My X-radar and piloting nullifies his cheese attempt, he dies. Finally, he comes at me in a Javelin, staying at a distance while bouncing bombs down the minibase. I can't really deal with this as a Spider, and it's only a matter of time before he finally gets me when I'm low energy. Pity returns to spec with a 'rofl ez'.

 

The point of this story? YOU could not do that. YOU, as a midlevel player, have a disadvantage against privs. If a priv wants you to die, you will die eventually, because they always have a maxed ship that can exploit your ships' weaknesses. It's the long run that matters when it comes to bountying.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Gar

[Mat Cauthon]

It's the long run that matters when it comes to bountying.

seems to me like the problem is that he has alot of trails to kill you, anyone can exploit that and kill someone once they have a decent ship. the fact that he took so much time in killing you proves that he wasnt overpowered. And why are you using a base example when you were talking about center fighting.

[Suicide_Run]

Relos: The increase in base money to 10k, the increase in sell price for items and greater variety of weapons all helps a new player. This had given a new player a better start then before.

 

What with Gar against privs? Its not like Pity was working with someone or thats what I can tell from Gar's descriptions. Besides a private freq has been reduced to a mere 3 people. And seriously, whats wrong with a player taking multiple tries to kill another?

 

Also, whats with all these Low-Level vs Mid-Level vs High-Level comparisons (where level means exp). Its obvious that a player that just started recently with barely any exp can't or will have tons of trouble killing a mid not to mention a high exp player.

 

If you put 2 players in the same general exp range but one being on the higher end and one being on the lower end. With skills, the lower ended one will be able to kill the higher ended one. Apparently, you guys love to compare a level 1 with skills vs a level 99 with no skills.

[Gar]

seems to me like the problem is that he has alot of trails to kill you, anyone can exploit that and kill someone once they have a decent ship. the fact that he took so much time in killing you proves that he wasnt overpowered. And why are you using a base example when you were talking about center fighting.

The minibase is pretty much centering for heavy ships. Here's my point from the Pity story: I'm better than Pity, so with most ships I kill him easily and thus continue bountying. Everyone else attacking me has to do it in the same one or two ships, thus I keep killing and keep gaining bounty. Pity, on the other hand, since he's a priv, just shipchanges until he finds one I can't fight back against. In this case, a Javelin is the best way to kill a Spider - the Javelin stays at a distance and is quick. No other ship really has that combo. Thus, Pity has a big advantage because of his cash. He can switch to a ship that does most of the work for him.

 

What with Gar against privs? Its not like Pity was working with someone or thats what I can tell from Gar's descriptions. Besides a private freq has been reduced to a mere 3 people. And seriously, whats wrong with a player taking multiple tries to kill another?

By priv I meant privileged player or private freq player, not the actual team. Aside from that, the 3 person limit does NOTHING to priv freqs, don't kid yourself. I explained the multiple tries thing in the quote before this one.

 

Also, whats with all these Low-Level vs Mid-Level vs High-Level comparisons (where level means exp). Its obvious that a player that just started recently with barely any exp can't or will have tons of trouble killing a mid not to mention a high exp player.

Yes, it is obvious. It is also a very poor design that causes many new players to quit. Continuum doesn't get many totally new people. Most new people are from other zones, and have some degree of skill. Imagine their frustration when they go from a balanced zone where their skill allows them to have fun, to this zone, where their ships are basically nothing more than free kills for terrible players who happen to have spent alot of time grinding items and cash.

 

If you put 2 players in the same general exp range but one being on the higher end and one being on the lower end. With skills, the lower ended one will be able to kill the higher ended one. Apparently, you guys love to compare a level 1 with skills vs a level 99 with no skills.

It's not a big deal if high levels slaughter low levels as long as low levels can actually grow higher before they get annoyed and quit.

[Mat Cauthon]

It's not a big deal if high levels slaughter low levels as long as low levels can actually grow higher before they get annoyed and quit.

judging from what you just said, it is near impossible for a new player to play this zone, then why is there so many low expers now in hs?

[Suicide_Run]

I'm better than Pity

Lol

 

Imagine their frustration when they go from a balanced zone where their skill allows them to have fun, to this zone, where their ships are basically nothing more than free kills for terrible players who happen to have spent alot of time grinding items and cash.

Their skill(s) from other zones may not help them to begin with. And...are you saying when players from other zones come, they shouldn't be free kills for players whom spent tons of time grinding in HS already?

 

It's not a big deal if high levels slaughter low levels as long as low levels can actually grow higher before they get annoyed and quit.

They do grow fast, its just if they want to spend time or not to play in HS.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[AiG]

Another problem I think we have is really rich players that have a bunch of maxed/near maxed out ships and tons of money still continuously hopping on defending teams.

 

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder. I rather have new players hop then other players hopping and ending up with stacked freqs.

 

This is the exact problem that HS is having...people who are rich still decides to hop onto stack teams...instead of making an opposition to make the game last longer and more enjoyable for others (such as newbs)...and those same people always complain how flag games is ruined...i dont want to point out any names...but i am sure you guys know who they are...

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Relos: The increase in base money to 10k, the increase in sell price for items and greater variety of weapons all helps a new player. This had given a new player a better start then before.

 

What with Gar against privs? Its not like Pity was working with someone or thats what I can tell from Gar's descriptions. Besides a private freq has been reduced to a mere 3 people. And seriously, whats wrong with a player taking multiple tries to kill another?

 

Also, whats with all these Low-Level vs Mid-Level vs High-Level comparisons (where level means exp). Its obvious that a player that just started recently with barely any exp can't or will have tons of trouble killing a mid not to mention a high exp player.

 

If you put 2 players in the same general exp range but one being on the higher end and one being on the lower end. With skills, the lower ended one will be able to kill the higher ended one. Apparently, you guys love to compare a level 1 with skills vs a level 99 with no skills.

"The increase in base money to 10k"... huh?

 

The increase in sell price is good. More weapons is good too. But Suicide_Run, I'm on a different point here. My point is that newbie fail at basing. You don't get much choice except to center for a while.

 

Of course, there's always leeching.

[f3ar-evil]

hahaha Gar is better than pity.

 

 

 

iLaff.

[Suicide_Run]

Relos, I meant 5k XD. What I meant was the start up money that you get when you create a new alias.

 

The thing is....new players have been failing at basing every reset. I wouldn't expect a new player to start kicking !@#$%^&* in a base when basing is just a bunch of cluster f***s spamming items.

 

Well I have already suggested a newb item already where when certain exp is reached item gets removed but its helpful for new players.....somewhere in this forum

Edited July 9, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[Gar]

hahaha Gar is better than pity.

 

 

 

iLaff.

How is that an iLaff? Pity isn't particularly good. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying every time that I have fought him he immediately fell back on cheese rather than trying anything skill-related. Typically when I bounty in center he just rushes at me with an ad shark bursting.

[Pity.]

Nice story Gar.

 

Since when do I have a Weasel and and shark that can burst?!

 

Entertaining.

[Gar]

Notice he didn't deny the story happened

[weasel]

Another problem I think we have is really rich players that have a bunch of maxed/near maxed out ships and tons of money still continuously hopping on defending teams.

 

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder. I rather have new players hop then other players hopping and ending up with stacked freqs.

 

This is the exact problem that HS is having...people who are rich still decides to hop onto stack teams...instead of making an opposition to make the game last longer and more enjoyable for others (such as newbs)...and those same people always complain how flag games is ruined...i dont want to point out any names...but i am sure you guys know who they are...

aig is the biggest hopper the zone has to offer. you guys could learn from him.

[Kat]

This is why I only center.

[AiG]

Another problem I think we have is really rich players that have a bunch of maxed/near maxed out ships and tons of money still continuously hopping on defending teams.

 

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder. I rather have new players hop then other players hopping and ending up with stacked freqs.

 

This is the exact problem that HS is having...people who are rich still decides to hop onto stack teams...instead of making an opposition to make the game last longer and more enjoyable for others (such as newbs)...and those same people always complain how flag games is ruined...i dont want to point out any names...but i am sure you guys know who they are...

aig is the biggest hopper the zone has to offer. you guys could learn from him.

 

at least i dont hop onto stacked teams...unlike you who only play on stack teams

[op2rules]

Another problem I think we have is really rich players that have a bunch of maxed/near maxed out ships and tons of money still continuously hopping on defending teams.

 

I find the new players have it easier than it used to instead of harder. I rather have new players hop then other players hopping and ending up with stacked freqs.

 

This is the exact problem that HS is having...people who are rich still decides to hop onto stack teams...instead of making an opposition to make the game last longer and more enjoyable for others (such as newbs)...and those same people always complain how flag games is ruined...i dont want to point out any names...but i am sure you guys know who they are...

 

 

Yea I agrea that really hit me, non newbs are always hopping, ruining games. You know who you are, but I am also to blame I can honestly admit I have hopped numerous times to be on the defending team to just kill/get more. I think I might have 2nd thoughts from time to time, but then if I don't hop someone else will... its like I should hop but stay in spec to fill up the team or something but then I don't get to play so .... -_-

[Gar]

You can't really expect people not to act in their own self interest.