Thors ruining basing again

[Kilo]

so turn on antiwarp

[»D1st0rt]

Thread should be renamed to

"!@#$%^&*bags ruining basing again"

[nolan123]

this may sound stupid, but just dont give combo mount a thor, or make an armor specifically for thors, not for bombs JUST thors.

[Unix]

Thors are a type of bomb, essentially level 4 - Their damage is derived from bomb settings

 

If you see me warp, more than likely someone else on my team is doing the same thing - So stop us, use antiwarp so we cant.

 

Dont be so lazy and have the settings do something for you, it's not like you "cant" stop thors, you just dont want to.

[Acer]

Er, ya if you see thors and your energy is down..repel them...and back up and recharge.. Edited July 3, 2008 by Acer101

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Perhaps repels should be buffed. It's a double-sided coin: rushers may get stronger repels but so do defenders. It should be a little easier to rep thors since they're so powerful and all.

[Unix]

Harder reps = Laggier

[Suicide_Run]

Buffing reps would really do much against thors. I doubt many players have the reaction speed to rep a thor thats coming at high speed besides luck.

[Sharpflame]

Sui's idea about adding bombdelay to siege mount is win.

 

Full of win.

[nolan123]

make thor speed slower so people have time to rep them.

[Mat Cauthon]

move thors to base 8 and set max to like 6

[Unix]

Thor speed is determined by bomb speed of the ship + movement of the ship at the time of the thor firing.

 

Moving thorring to base 8 means that players like Gar will complain that the ones who continue to thor are the ones who can afford TW key or id drives etc, increasing the wealth gap.

 

As it stands now, the only problem people have with thors is that people are dying from it because they're not trying to counter it.

[Gar]

Hah, Unix is correct, moving Thors to base 8 would accomplish nothing but to increase the wealth gap. Sadly, he has to try to nullify it by saying it's 'complaining'. And again, he tries to blame the players for an imbalanced mechanic...

 

One can warpcycle Thors and easily outmatch any team's repels simply in quan!@#$%^&*y alone. That means if they repped every Thor perfectly, they would still lose. Privs should just admit that they purposely hold back from using Thor spam because it'd instantly win a basing game and they want basing games to continue for cash. It's not some big secret that the only reason rich people argue that it's fine is that they like having an ace up their sleeve to guarantee a basing victory whenever they need it.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

The real reason thors are overpowered now is alot simpler than splash radius or damage numbers: their natural counter, repels, are less prevalent.

 

If you wanna stop people from thorring, rep the thors, stay near the enemy so that they tk one another.

 

So reps work...

 

Buffing reps would really do much against thors. I doubt many players have the reaction speed to rep a thor thats coming at high speed besides luck.

 

...or not? My idea was based off stuff like the first two quotes, but I see Suicide_Run's point. I think thors just fly by at the speed of light.

 

That means repels suck as a counter in general, that doesn't help make the situation any better. Now it becomes forced to get hit by them (Which is not a good balancing plan). I can think only think of one thing of Hyperspace that FORCED you to be hit.

 

The thors we have, 'Light-speed style' are it.

 

This situation could be solved if the fast-moving or high bombspeed ships could not use a siege mount. Why, lets only use lancs to use thors. Solves the problem, and lancs the defacto backrow ship. Me like.

[Syrith]

Thors are easy to rep. Unfortunately, all the people capable of reacting to thors are probably rushing and are using the reps in the front line.

[linger]

I like Brains idea make it so thors and salvo dont work this would not only stop tripple thoring it would stop many things people would be made to only thor once therefor the amout of people they can kill by the thors is limited

[Unix]

The point of buying salvo is so you can spam items (like thor). Salvo already has been nerfed might I add.

 

People still arent taking note that thor wars are EASILY countered, you just need to put a lil bit of effort into it. It's not like sharks where they arent easily stopped, thors are quite easy and can actually help your team if the enemy is stupid enough to shoot thors without caring, like Lera.

[Kilo]

Salvo is more or less the cause of all current deficiencies in basing, in terms of items.

In general, the cause of all deficiencies is teams being way too large (org behavior 101: large groups fail.) The teams that win are the ones that work together and aren't just greedy leechers wondering why they can't push forward (because they're not really being helpful.) No matter what items ships and bases change, if the team sizes stay the same, there will be problems, and the least of them is unevenness.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Salvo is more or less the cause of all current deficiencies in basing, in terms of items.

In general, the cause of all deficiencies is teams being way too large (org behavior 101: large groups fail.) The teams that win are the ones that work together and aren't just greedy leechers wondering why they can't push forward (because they're not really being helpful.) No matter what items ships and bases change, if the team sizes stay the same, there will be problems, and the least of them is unevenness.

Lets make maxfreq size 6, with the name taking up a slot for privs. Thats how HS was like when I first came in. Due to the smaller freqs not only were flag games won quicker, but only the useful got into the good privs

 

.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Relos

[Unix]

Wont making privs that small make less ?money players out casted essentially? Then we'll have players like Gar complaining even more.

 

Unless you can make pub like 2x the size of priv teams, otherwise it wont work. If pubs can at least get the numbers advantage that would help, then again a team of ?money players could just go on a pub, etc etc.

 

Salvo itself isnt that big of a problem, if it werent or salvo, there would be no rushing at all. It's bad enough that we barely have any even with salvo most of the time.

[vetta64]

Eliminate priv freq altogether.

 

 

Next, Fire Unix, . . . again.

[Suicide_Run]

Meh, I blame the players. The poor doesn't want to rush with items and the rich wants to hop to get more money. The combo that brings fail to its max.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Meh, I blame the players. The poor doesn't want to rush with items and the rich wants to hop to get more money. The combo that brings fail to its max.

 

So what do you suggest? HS worked before, its NOW that isn't working. There IS ways to make bigger teams work: see last reset. There IS ways that make more 'good' people: see last reset. Why, the new people who come in just don't have what it takes. A year ago I used to complain how new ships have it unfair. Back then you start with 950 energy, pulse laser was $500, money came in faster and close combat gave two repels, one burst. So whats my point? The point is, newbs have it so much harder now in so many ways it made my complaining from before look like a completely. stupid. joke. (I used to say that its hard to get a positive rec with your newb ship. That remark made me look stupid. Now, if I said that, not only would I be true, its would even be said that its a normal part of Hyperspace! Progress! )

 

The problem is that there isn't any streamlined way for newbs to do things (other than die in center). Gunlining means you stay back. Stay back means you get thorred. Your low health makes you die. Great plan there, devs. So lets screw that and rush.

 

Rushing costs 17000: two repels, two burst, ammo, and 230 exp for it. Rushing with a big ship? 500 exp, and at least some rockets to minimise damage, meaning $12500. However, pea shooter sucks. Try pulse. $17500. Might as well go with the first idea. Oh whoops, no money. Hahaha...ha. I guess I should go back to dying in center.

 

And thats basing for newbs in a nuts!@#$%^&*. Do you want newbs to be useful at all, great developers of HS?

[mij]

it's really not that as hard as you make it sound...

 

1. !@#$%^&* around in center with wb. i made 10k with pea shooter before i stopped being lazy and bought pulse laser.

2. get enough money to buy spid. buy pulse laser on spid

3. base with spid. even if you don't kill anyone you'll make money from teamkills.

4. buy shock, powerstrip, etc.

 

now you have a money makign shpi

[9vgnc3eZ01]

it's really not that as hard as you make it sound...

 

1. !@#$%^&* around in center with wb. i made 10k with pea shooter before i stopped being lazy and bought pulse laser.

2. get enough money to buy spid. buy pulse laser on spid

3. base with spid. even if you don't kill anyone you'll make money from teamkills.

4. buy shock, powerstrip, etc.

 

now you have a money makign shpi

That doesn't change anything with that solution. You're still going to have to center first. You need 10k for the spider and pulse. Basing with spider like that=you a leech and not being helpful. That doesn't help basing at all. Finally, the 4th solution also means you have enough stuff to really not be a noob anymore. You were still useless in basing for a while, and you don't even care to explain rushing. Why? Exactly my point, there just isn't a way (without a 17k per say). And if you don't get it, you 100% must rush if you're trying to progress in an attacking team (no ifs whens, or buts), and it needs to be effective (also no ifs, whens, or buts). If newbs can't rush effectively, bad teams occur.

 

This is why its hard. Money doesn't come out of thin air, Mij. So get the idea and notice that newbies could use a defense mount price reduction or something.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Relos