SubSpace Operators Forum

[»Lynx]

polix do you play gow or halo3? ohh and would you consider yourself MLG material.

 

Err, are you high?

 

-Lynx

[Dr Brain]

People aren't being left out because we want to create a clique or whatever, but because sensitive information is being shared and discussed there. The public forum was set up so that non-staffers can still take part by asking questions or making comments, and should serve as a pretty good place to post SSC access requests, for example.

 

Then it should be owners or zone ban admins only. Sysops is too broad.

[Samapico]

Seriously, people... if you don't like the idea, stop losing time in this topic, let that forum die if you think it will... I don't see the point of arguing here, everyone has stated their points more than once. All 3 pages of the topic are kind of repe!@#$%^&*ive.

[Cancer+]

We're not trying to create a gated or elitist community. The forum was set up as a tool that every SSC zone would be able to use to corroborate on certain issues. For example, we can post banG lists there for cross-checking purposes. The public forum can be used, for example, by someone like Resol to state his case about why his zone should be given SSC access. He'd be able to communicate directly with council members. In theory this would be much more productive than me just forwarding his request in the mailing list.

 

I 100% fail to see why people are getting all up in arms about a tool that was created to HELP SSC zones out. Though in hindsight this topic probably shouldn't have been made, as we were doing just fine privately letting sysops know about it.

 

So why not take the "SSC Ban Dispute" from this forum (since I'm !@#$%^&*uming that is all that is for) and just have a ALL SSC forum over there. This way, we don't have to deal with the reASSS saying why they arent banned. They can just tell your forum why they are and then the actual sysop of the zone where the person is banned can dispute it. Like court.

[Aceflyer]

People aren't being left out because we want to create a clique or whatever, but because sensitive information is being shared and discussed there. The public forum was set up so that non-staffers can still take part by asking questions or making comments, and should serve as a pretty good place to post SSC access requests, for example.

 

Then it should be owners or zone ban admins only. Sysops is too broad.

 

To gain access to the private forum you need to be a sysop though, which I don't think is very unreasonable considering the entire point behind this forum was a place where all the zone sysops can get together and discuss issues, as opposed to just Council members.

[»1587200]

3) As people who are !@#$%^&*led as sysop. We are going by !@#$%^&*le and not amount of access. Even in Subgame, there are people who have sysop access but who are not !@#$%^&*led as sysop.

I hereby !@#$%^&*le myself Sysop of Extreme Games, gimmie access.

 

We're not trying to create a gated or elitist community...we were doing just fine privately

I found that comical. Edited June 7, 2008 by Guest

[PoLiX]

polix do you play gow or halo3? ohh and would you consider yourself MLG material.

 

 

But sometimes. Mostly GTA4 and PGR4 lately.

[PoLiX]

I guess to get back on topic I should state my opinion, since it is the only one that matters w/ these forums (j/k... or am I?).

 

Me and Ghost had once discussed this long ago during all our talks about the most recent release of continuum. We had set out ideas, duties, and plans for ourselves, along w/ plans for things for MTN to do w/ the council. If this made it to mike, I dunno, I don't recall telling him, but I do remember relaying a lot of me and ghost's phone conversations to him.

 

But one such thing was really getting away from the closed mailing list, and trying to open up a more general ssc discussion. The Council itself has no power without Ghost to do really anything. Yes, as he'd state, he will listen to them, and 90% of the time do as they ask. But if he doesn't like something for any gut reason, he won't do it, no matter how much they want it, IE: their main flaw. Only being a handfull of zones, they can't really act biller wide upon anything w/out him. Now w/ the SSC forum, they don't need Ghost AS MUCH, as w/ more zones working together, any actions outside of biller control, can be more easily done/pursued. Not saying it will happen on every topic, but just if there is a wider discussion/acception of an action, that helps inforce it. Rather then this small elitist group deciding things, half of them being inactive to current situations the players see, and forcing it upon zones whose owners are normally more active, and wonder "WTF MATE?".

 

Now, I personally could care less where it is at, just that finally it has been done.

 

Anyways, gotta goto work...

[»Ceiu]

This whole discussion just seems incredibly silly. For starters, you've got a public forum which the public could give a !@#$%^&* about. Then, discussion of that failing, this super-leet private forum gets brought up. As I brushed over last time, this just looks like some power flaunting. Example:

 

The purpose of the publicly accessible portion of this new forum (which is the only portion that is relevant to most people here and in the Continuum community in general) is to provide an easy' date=' centralized way for regular players to ask the [i']SSC members and other SysOps[/i] questions and for other general discussion about the SSC. For all general forum needs, including general ban/netban disputes, SSForum.net is still the place to go. The publicly accessible portion of this new forum is not meant to serve as a ban disputes board.

 

[armchair psychologist rant]The problem here is how much emphasis is put on the fact that there is a rift between non-members and SSC members (and how often it's mentioned). You can see in this post how Ace feels about the forums and the community in general -- there are separatist labels on virtually everything describing this.

 

How do you think a community of unstable !@#$%^&*heads is going to react when they're basically being told that they are just now being deemed worthy enough to speak to the almighty SSC members by joining their super-leet off-site board? !@#$%^&*, even the most dense of the community is going to pick up on this at!@#$%^&*ude with the amount of times it's revisited in this thread.

 

Don't agree? Well then, feel free to react to this thread: http://www.ssforum.net/index.php?showtopic=20616

[/rant]

 

Also, Ace: Lately I've gotten the feeling that you're turning into another D+. Please prove me wrong on this.

[»Lynx]

NOTE: This was meant to go after Polix's post, but Cerium beat me... :/

 

Just because the SysOps and Zone Owners (and various other people) have been invited to these forums, it doesn't mean we've got any more power over anything what-so-ever. All I see is that this is a good way to post discussion between peers, and nothing more. Zone Owners and SysOps will not benefit from this forum at all (in the sense that they will be able to vote for significant change), and it will not help spead the centralised power that the SSC currently have.

 

However, if the forums turn into a more wide-spread SSCouncil, and creates a more pragmatic and democratic approach to dealing with things (Via. discussion, followed by polling for outcome) - then actions will be *slightly more outside of biller control. The biller, though, always seems to have true sovereignty over anything. Fortunately, Ghost Ship seems to hold a much better way of dealing with things, as he *is open to discussion, and even criticism. Initially, this is how things were planned. Rogue zone owners may have changed the opinions of the Council to whether operations should still be practiced like this, I don't know, however, I'm sure with some more planning (not over complication - before somebody accuses me of this) - this can all be easily rectified.

 

It will be interesting to see how things pan out though, this can either reinforce opinions that many people hold of the SSC, or help SSC greatly. I know that I am hoping for the latter.

 

-Lynx

 

EDIT:

@Cerium: Aceflyer has caused other people frustration by making it seem like he's bragging about what he's doing. This is generally a misunderstood thing about him, although I agree with your points that the posts he's made are very condescending to people who aren't within the class he's defined.

 

Complaining about this though, will just make you both look like !@#$%^&*holes. :/

 

-Lynx

Edited June 7, 2008 by Lynx

[BlueGoku]

I guess to get back on topic I should state my opinion, since it is the only one that matters w/ these forums (j/k... or am I?).

 

Me and Ghost had once discussed this long ago during all our talks about the most recent release of continuum. We had set out ideas, duties, and plans for ourselves, along w/ plans for things for MTN to do w/ the council. If this made it to mike, I dunno, I don't recall telling him, but I do remember relaying a lot of me and ghost's phone conversations to him.

 

But one such thing was really getting away from the closed mailing list, and trying to open up a more general ssc discussion. The Council itself has no power without Ghost to do really anything. Yes, as he'd state, he will listen to them, and 90% of the time do as they ask. But if he doesn't like something for any gut reason, he won't do it, no matter how much they want it, IE: their main flaw. Only being a handfull of zones, they can't really act biller wide upon anything w/out him. Now w/ the SSC forum, they don't need Ghost AS MUCH, as w/ more zones working together, any actions outside of biller control, can be more easily done/pursued. Not saying it will happen on every topic, but just if there is a wider discussion/acception of an action, that helps inforce it. Rather then this small elitist group deciding things, half of them being inactive to current situations the players see, and forcing it upon zones whose owners are normally more active, and wonder "WTF MATE?".

 

Now, I personally could care less where it is at, just that finally it has been done.

 

Anyways, gotta goto work...

 

Ghost has his own opinions, of course, but I've yet to see when one outright conflicts with the views and wishes of the Council. I've been on the Council for a few years now and I've yet to see a decision that we've made overturned by Ghost because he disagreed. There are a number of smart and level headed people on the Council and since all of our decisions require almost unanimous support, we've always been able to tailor them to suit everyone, including Ghost. I'd say Ghost goes along with the wishes of the Council 100% of the time, at least since I've been on it. Decisions that we make may not all be implemented instantly, but that's to be expected when some of them require Priitk's access. The only times we've really been denied something is when asking for new game functionality/features from Priitk, but we learned long ago to not do that =p.

 

As for the forum itself, it's in no way an authoritative body. Having access to it isn't going to magically give you billing powers or lv0 banG. The mailing list will continue to be used as it has been in the past, only now we have a very important tool at our disposal: a centralized forum where we can get opinions from high ranking zone officials. As well, this tool isn't just going to be used by the Council, but by every SSC zone op out there.

 

Cerium:

 

"How do you think a community of unstable !@#$%^&*heads is going to react when they're basically being told that they are just now being deemed worthy enough to speak to the almighty SSC members by joining their super-leet off-site board? !@#$%^&*, even the most dense of the community is going to pick up on this at!@#$%^&*ude with the amount of times it's revisited in this thread."

 

People were mad at us when we DIDN'T have the forum and now people are seemingly mad because we -just- now have the forum. You can't have it both ways. Yes, it took a while to get set up, but I'd be hard-pressed to find a good reason to complain about this forum.

 

So again: this forum is NOT going to be used for decision making in any way. It's a place where zone operators can freely share information.

[Aceflyer]

What Blue said. People were angry before we had a forum, and now they are angry because we have a forum...

 

Also - I edited my original post to avoid appearing elitist (which wasn't my intention).

[»Maverick]

I think it's a good thing, finally some more communication.

 

Just too bad it couldn't be put onto SSForum, it would've made a perfect match for SSForum being the central forum for Continuum.

[Dr Brain]

People were mad at us when we DIDN'T have the forum and now people are seemingly mad because we -just- now have the forum. You can't have it both ways. Yes, it took a while to get set up, but I'd be hard-pressed to find a good reason to complain about this forum.

 

I'm sorry I haven't made myself clear here. In no way am I mad about the creation of the forum. I'm mad at the way Aceflyer has handled himself in advertising it. I'm mad at the way some sysops have been denied access and others granted access. I'm mad at the way it's closed to guest viewing.

 

And before you guys spout out your "we can't allow everyone to read it because there might be sensitive info", you've already allowed people access that don't have any "right" to be there.

[Aceflyer]

I'm sorry I haven't made myself clear here. In no way am I mad about the creation of the forum. I'm mad at the way Aceflyer has handled himself in advertising it. I'm mad at the way some sysops have been denied access and others granted access.

 

I have already apologized for any mistakes I may have made in advertising it. I have also edited my original post to remove controversial content. I am not sure what else I can do to make this up to you.

 

The only "sysops" who have been denied access are 1) !@#$%^&*led sysops who are netbanned from SSC; 2) people who aren't !@#$%^&*led sysops (and only have sysop access for dev purposes); I still do not see why this is unfair.

[candygirl]

I'm sorry I haven't made myself clear here. In no way am I mad about the creation of the forum. I'm mad at the way Aceflyer has handled himself in advertising it. I'm mad at the way some sysops have been denied access and others granted access.

 

I have already apologized for any mistakes I may have made in advertising it. I have also edited my original post to remove controversial content. I am not sure what else I can do to make this up to you.

 

The only "sysops" who have been denied access are 1) !@#$%^&*led sysops who are netbanned from SSC; 2) people who aren't !@#$%^&*led sysops (and only have sysop access for dev purposes); I still do not see why this is unfair.

 

Its not unfair.

[Steigerwald]

Funny to see who has already registered for the forum. In any event, at least give them credit for trying to talk a bit, but should any zone with a population of 10 (3+ bots heh) be given access to all their sysops. Where will the line be drawn? And what has the forum already accomplished so far? 30 topics / 187 replies. I'm not bashing, Id just like to see what has been done, some progress.

[Aceflyer]

Funny to see who has already registered for the forum. In any event, at least give them credit for trying to talk a bit, but should any zone with a population of 10 (3+ bots heh) be given access to all their sysops. Where will the line be drawn? And what has the forum already accomplished so far? 30 topics / 187 replies. I'm not bashing, Id just like to see what has been done, some progress.

 

May I ask how you know who has already registered for the forum? Guests can't view the memberlist.

[Hakaku]

May I ask how you know who has already registered for the forum? Guests can't view the memberlist.

He can probably only see the who's online part, or the last registered users. At any rate, it's not super difficult to figure it out...

 

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

http://www.sscouncil.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u= #enter a number starting from 1, after u=

[ThunderJam]

What Blue said. People were angry before we had a forum, and now they are angry because we have a forum...

 

Also - I edited my original post to avoid appearing elitist (which wasn't my intention).

I feel like 1/2 the people talking to ace in this topic are above his level in terms of experience and reputation...

 

I donno i guess i just didnt like the way ace said "we" in this last post. Somehow this whole topic seems to be a way for ace to try and promote himself to a higher status...

[X`terrania]

Funny to see who has already registered for the forum. In any event, at least give them credit for trying to talk a bit, but should any zone with a population of 10 (3+ bots heh) be given access to all their sysops. Where will the line be drawn? And what has the forum already accomplished so far? 30 topics / 187 replies. I'm not bashing, Id just like to see what has been done, some progress.

 

May I ask how you know who has already registered for the forum? Guests can't view the memberlist.

 

It really isn't that difficult to byp!@#$%^&* limitations set on forums. At any rate, what's the current population on SWE? Why do they have access?

[BlueGoku]

Funny to see who has already registered for the forum. In any event, at least give them credit for trying to talk a bit, but should any zone with a population of 10 (3+ bots heh) be given access to all their sysops. Where will the line be drawn? And what has the forum already accomplished so far? 30 topics / 187 replies. I'm not bashing, Id just like to see what has been done, some progress.

 

Some if not most of the issues discussed on the forum will be more on the administrative end and will not really have an impact on players. As well, since it's a private forum we're not going to prove ourselves every time someone asks. This probably wasn't your intention, but your post made it sound as if this whole process was tedious and involved more than Ace and I putting it together and getting the right people to join. Regardless of whether progress is made, the forum is now there to be used accordingly. Though the forum IS working, I can tell you that much. However, every once in a while I can do a quick summary of non-sensitive info for the public forum, but it's only been a few days, give it some time.

 

As for access - it's not based on population statistics. An outline has already been posted in this thread.

[»Ceiu]

So when I open SSC* ASSS Module Test Zone, my owner, lead developer (dev sysop), bang administrator (ban sysop) and director of public relations (pr sysop), should all get access, right?

 

If all it takes is a zone on SSC billing, then it's once again back to being a popularity contest -- getting SSC billing is either terribly difficult or overly simplistic, depending on how you go about getting it (proxy access through an authorized server ftw). Not only that, but incredibly easy to abuse.

 

But, this all tends to not matter if all it is is a cross-zone collaboration tool. However if that's the case, then there's really no reason to keep it private.

[Aceflyer]

So when I open SSC* ASSS Module Test Zone, my owner, lead developer (dev sysop), bang administrator (ban sysop) and director of public relations (pr sysop), should all get access, right?

 

If all it takes is a zone on SSC billing, then it's once again back to being a popularity contest -- getting SSC billing is either terribly difficult or overly simplistic, depending on how you go about getting it (proxy access through an authorized server ftw). Not only that, but incredibly easy to abuse.

 

But, this all tends to not matter if all it is is a cross-zone collaboration tool. However if that's the case, then there's really no reason to keep it private.

 

Generally a dev/test zone doesn't count. Although if you had a L1+ SSC BanG Operator in that zone, that person could sign up due to having L1+ BanG access.

 

All it is is a cross-zone collaboration tool. As Blue said, "some if not most of the issues discussed on the forum will be more on the administrative end and will not really have an impact on players." As well, "people aren't being left out because we want to create a clique or whatever, but because sensitive information is being shared and discussed there. ... To gain access to the private forum you need to be a sysop, which I don't think is very unreasonable considering the entire point behind this forum was a place where all the zone sysops can get together and discuss issues, as opposed to just Council members."

[ThunderJam]

cerium stop just toying with technicalities =/