Aceflyer Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 There is no need for a panic attack. Ghost Ship remains active and involved in Continuum. I last talked with him just hours before the biller outage. He will doubtlessly have the biller up again in no time.
»Lynx Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 SSC isn't quite what it was, although it is still an elitest group, and is completely un-democratic, and often the people who get access suck !@#$%^&* to get access, they're good at doing what they do. They've provided a solid (Although antiquated) biller for years, and have provided it well. There were some hick-ups (SVS), however, power is well-spread. I'd like to see a new biller, better yet, I'd like to see a new biller, which SSC allows connection to. I don't think changes should be made in a progessive way, but passively. If programmers are willing to fall to this resolution, then things may be a lot happier at the end. A "renegade" takeover will only cause one thing, population loss. We must preserve what we've already got. :/ Will write more soon, dinner time. -Lynx
No_Remorse Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Warning: Didn't read log. Summary: This game just isn't fun any more. I can't quite put my finger on it. Probably just the fact that I was 11 when I started and now I'm 23. I mean for !@#$%^&* sakes, I don't even play Dr. Mario any more, for shame. I'd like to bet the majority of players only come into SS scarcely casually... If that makes any sense, I dunno, I'm tired.
candygirl Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 SSC isn't quite what it was, although it is still an elitest group, and is completely un-democratic, and often the people who get access suck !@#$%^&* to get access, they're good at doing what they do. They've provided a solid (Although antiquated) biller for years, and have provided it well. There were some hick-ups (SVS), however, power is well-spread. I'd like to see a new biller, better yet, I'd like to see a new biller, which SSC allows connection to. I don't think changes should be made in a progessive way, but passively. If programmers are willing to fall to this resolution, then things may be a lot happier at the end. A "renegade" takeover will only cause one thing, population loss. We must preserve what we've already got. :/ Will write more soon, dinner time. -Lynx I Agree
»Lynx Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Anyway, I've had dinner. Let me continue my babbling... There are various things which I don't quite like about the SSC billing, however, it's beneficial to the game. The things which make SSC good are: The net-wide ChatThe recorded player information The things which make SSC bad are: The amount of bansThe biller being antiquatedNobody but inactive people being allowed to make updates For anything to grow, it needs to be worked on. This is simple theory, and should be applied to the game, well, should have been applied to the game for years now. We've got developers, but nobody seems to be able to trust anyone else. This goes for both the SSC biller, and the Continuum client. Therefore, the only way to overcome these problems, is for the players to create a new client, and new biller, which conforms to the previous client and biller. If we step back, and look at this task, we can realise how hard it is. So, basically, in order for development to work, we need to re-create a game which was made by paid professionals, in our spare time. As most developers are mere students, this is an extremely hard task. Therefore, instead of spending hours upon hours on developing things which have extremely high fail rates, maybe we should spend time on things which don't? As far as I can see, ASSS isn't a finished product, instead, it's an open source Linux beauty, with loads of potential. With our latest development (Starlight V1) - We've proven that we can escape most of the security checks made by the client and biller, and with further packet logging, I believe we can successfully connect to the SSC biller without any real problems, however, in order for this to work, we need more organisation between those who actually are savvy enough for good ideas. There are many things which need to be tackled when connecting the SSC biller to an alien biller, primarily how data is handled. When connecting billers, how should messages be displayed, who should be granted access, and should banned players be banned from the alien biller? Should the alien biller only be a short-term solution, or should it be the small steps needed for a global change? These kind of questions all need to be logged, and answered pragmatically, without this basic information, developers can't be expected to go anywhere, and development just seems like a much larger step to take. To be brief though, for any new development to work, it has to be !@#$%^&*ociated with the SSC, and without this imperative connection, it will inevitably fail, no matter how beautiful it is. Our player base consists of newbs, learning new tricks, and then becoming more !@#$%^&*ociated with the game. If we don't account for this, the game will just fail even more than it is today. I'm not saying development is essential to keep the game running, but it is required to keep the game up-to-date, and essential to keep the old players coming back. I've got wind of possible new biller development, however, in order for this to work, we need support from the SSC. Without this, all development is doomed to fail before it even begins. -Lynx
»doc flabby Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) I agree with Lynx as well. The way forward is to work with SSC. Alot of work needs to be done before we can even think about replacing any part of it. Edited June 1, 2008 by doc flabby
»Lynx Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 However, this is all a two-way movement. If SSC are going to agree to letting us develop on what is effectively their network, they are going to need to agree to letting part of their power cease. From the limited interaction I've had with SSC, I can't see this happening. -Lynx
X`terrania Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Overreacting. And Ace, you've said GS will be on it since like way before 2am from last night.
»Lynx Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 By the way Ace, thanks for preventing all the panic. You're my hero. -Lynx
candygirl Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 well its not like its the first time the biller was down.And its not the end of the world as we know it lol
PoLiX Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Read the log and it is pretty much the same thing that has been posted on these forums maybe... twice a year? for the past 5 or 6yrs now. Actually I think Zippydan's Essay and Priit's replies we're one of the 1st topics back in 02 when we 1st opened these forums. Actions speak louder than words... a problem in this game, as everything is just typed text, and noone ever acts upon it.
Dr Brain Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Nothing will ever change without a decent programmer with free time to write a new large scale biller (or someone willing to compensate him for his time). Either find one and fix the situation or shut up. If someone wants to fork over a few thousands dollars, I'll write one, even. You can babble all you want about how bad things are, and it doesn't even matter if you're right. The SSC biller is the only option.
L.C. Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Actions speak louder than words... a problem in this game, as everything is just typed text, and noone ever acts upon it.If I could I would. I just don't have the knowledge and power to be able to do it. Besides that, there are several other points in this thread that reveal why nobody acts. EDIT :: If I knew how to program for example, I would dedicate myself to programming Subspace applications regardless of whether people would think I'd be wasting my time for a lost cause or not. Edited June 1, 2008 by L.C.
»Lynx Posted June 1, 2008 Report Posted June 1, 2008 Ehrm, I never read the whole log before, just did. "[09:33] hlrsecom: We -must- get into Steamworks" Are you crazy?? -Lynx
L.C. Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Posted June 2, 2008 Are you crazy??Nope. And if you think that it would kill many zones and the biller I think this idea that it would kill such things is one of the contributing factors to declining populations. You are refusing the business of others. I don't care what happened in the past.
Sketter Posted June 2, 2008 Report Posted June 2, 2008 Reviving an old game isn't exactly ever going to be successful. Name a game that has. This topic isn't new, so we should all spare ourselves from pointlessness, and I'll be brief. What you want, and what is reality are extremely different things. To continue the name of what this game represents will in fact require a complete overhaul (Such has a Subspace 2, and a new engine to run it on) To achieve this (witch i do believe is unable with the state of this game) to create an progressive group with professional skills, to cover all aspects of what is needed for a sequel. And true comitmint. Really think about that. You do not need SSC full support. However it would make life easier. I truly believe there is a big disconnect from "SSC" and the players.There really is no elitegroup up there being productive in the aspect of development. There is one man in control, and his time is better spent else where. Continuum has gone as far as it can.....its server(s) (subgame/!@#$%^&*S) can only go as far as it's client. With that said.My experience with the SS/CTM community over 10 years....this game has gone as far as it can.I don't feel there is a well structured group out there to continue this games legacy.No matter how bad we want it, realistically, you are playing a 10+ old game, with no real structure, no support, no development/updates. Do you know what the odds are a this point?Unless you can actually do something, enjoy your time. SketterJust letting you know
»Lynx Posted June 2, 2008 Report Posted June 2, 2008 Reviving an old game isn't exactly ever going to be successful. Name a game that has. This topic isn't new, so we should all spare ourselves from pointlessness, and I'll be brief. What you want, and what is reality are extremely different things. To continue the name of what this game represents will in fact require a complete overhaul (Such has a Subspace 2, and a new engine to run it on) To achieve this (witch i do believe is unable with the state of this game) to create an progressive group with professional skills, to cover all aspects of what is needed for a sequel. And true comitmint. Really think about that. You do not need SSC full support. However it would make life easier. I truly believe there is a big disconnect from "SSC" and the players.There really is no elitegroup up there being productive in the aspect of development. There is one man in control, and his time is better spent else where. Continuum has gone as far as it can.....its server(s) (subgame/!@#$%^&*S) can only go as far as it's client. With that said.My experience with the SS/CTM community over 10 years....this game has gone as far as it can.I don't feel there is a well structured group out there to continue this games legacy.No matter how bad we want it, realistically, you are playing a 10+ old game, with no real structure, no support, no development/updates. Do you know what the odds are a this point?Unless you can actually do something, enjoy your time. SketterJust letting you know I think I agree with pretty much everything you say, however, I think the reason people develop isn't just to generate more population, but to learn a little more, and do something constructive. That's why I dev anyway. -Lynx
»doc flabby Posted June 2, 2008 Report Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) I think the biggest problem with the discussion is the conclusion that the "biller" and "support services" is the biggest problem in SubSpace. Its as Sketter puts it, its the Client To continue the name of what this game represents will in fact require a complete overhaul (Such has a Subspace 2, and a new engine to run it on) To achieve this (witch i do believe is unable with the state of this game) to create an progressive group with professional skills, to cover all aspects of what is needed for a sequel. And true comitmint.Really think about that.Essentially this is the aim of STF. Whether we achieve it or not remains to be seen Edited June 2, 2008 by doc flabby
Sketter Posted June 2, 2008 Report Posted June 2, 2008 Reviving an old game isn't exactly ever going to be successful. Name a game that has. This topic isn't new, so we should all spare ourselves from pointlessness, and I'll be brief. What you want, and what is reality are extremely different things. To continue the name of what this game represents will in fact require a complete overhaul (Such has a Subspace 2, and a new engine to run it on) To achieve this (witch i do believe is unable with the state of this game) to create an progressive group with professional skills, to cover all aspects of what is needed for a sequel. And true comitmint. Really think about that. You do not need SSC full support. However it would make life easier. I truly believe there is a big disconnect from "SSC" and the players.There really is no elitegroup up there being productive in the aspect of development. There is one man in control, and his time is better spent else where. Continuum has gone as far as it can.....its server(s) (subgame/!@#$%^&*S) can only go as far as it's client. With that said.My experience with the SS/CTM community over 10 years....this game has gone as far as it can.I don't feel there is a well structured group out there to continue this games legacy.No matter how bad we want it, realistically, you are playing a 10+ old game, with no real structure, no support, no development/updates. Do you know what the odds are a this point?Unless you can actually do something, enjoy your time. SketterJust letting you know I think I agree with pretty much everything you say, however, I think the reason people develop isn't just to generate more population, but to learn a little more, and do something constructive. That's why I dev anyway. -Lynx In that aspect, this game is a ver good source for your run of the mil bot coder/!@#$%^&*S and in some way gfx.There is no problem with that, and i can see the frustration where the minds of these devers can only go so far on an old game. However, this is about realistic views of the future of this game...which there really isn't one Sketter
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