HSTSDL

[Unix]

Anyone who was in game playing gets the winning/losing money. This includes sub in/out

[lvlelvlo]

I am surprised there is so much whining. I mean, Unix is the only mod that is attempting to bring a league to this zone. She puts a lot of work into coming up with these ideas and everyone just bashes her. She wanted to play in the league that she came up with, SO? A league is meant to be played for fun and that is why she wanted to participate.

[protocol_]

I am surprised there is so much whining. I mean, Unix is the only mod that is attempting to bring a league to this zone. She puts a lot of work into coming up with these ideas and everyone just bashes her. She wanted to play in the league that she came up with, SO? A league is meant to be played for fun and that is why she wanted to participate.

 

flag games are meant to be played for fun too.. but we ALL know what she does to those... and thanks for deleting my previous post.

[Syrith]

Hosts should not be allowed to earn money from events that they host personally. Otherwise you risk being accused (probably rightfully in the case of Unix) of abusing.

[nikegurl637]

Syrith, I like your signature on good grammar, however, "Dont" is missing an apostrophe...

[Syrith]

I didn't make it

[Matrim Cauthon]

i still dont get it, dont unix support the shark nerf movement? y is she trying to make a selected few get super sharks(doesnt matter who, the fact is sharks dont need more power)?

[RoN]

I see that Unix made a squad with AiG and lvlelvlo in it. They left WhiteWolfs and made another squad with Unix. I think that Unix is making a super squad and let other squads die. She dont know what she is doing.

[f3ar-evil]

There's like... what 9-10 people in Oppressors?

More than half of them are some of the best rushing sharks in the game. The last things we need is for them to get signaure items.

[weasel]

idc who wins league as long as its on fair terms. leagues are supposed to be determined by who has more skill, not who plays public the most. oppressors has the best ships atm but they lack skill. make it so the people participating in the league get custom ships for it instead of public ones and it'll be fair for everyone. it'll also allow newbs and people from other zones to participate. there's absolutely no downside at all to this. on the other hand, using public ships pretty much caps the squad base at 2, garuntees oppressors win, and allows unix to rig a league for self benefit.

[Dadoc]

Actually, I think the issue still hasn't been addressed. A 2M item should not be allowed if only one or even two squads have it. If all the squads participating, don't have a 2M item, there shouldn't be one and anyone having one could be allowed to sub it for another sig. Unix could very easily give the money to someone else in her squad to buy just before the match (if they don't already have the money or item). Actually, this item alone would make the league an odd one, even if all the squads had it (which doesn't seem likely). One person per squad would be in a "Supership" (compared to other players), which is a different strategy all in itself.

 

Potential prize = Sig on a shark?!

 

I thought this was settled a long time ago. That's why no one can purchase any of them. If this prize is gonna be allowed, at least give other people the opportunity to purchase one too and not have a select few able to wreck havoc in base rushing and the pub in general. Sharks are already the kings of "slipping in behind enemy lines" to get flags in an fr or taking out lancs quickly (i.e. brick drop maneuver) without the sigs. This is not a fair prize (regardless who wins it) because no one has an option of evening up in pub with no sigs currently allowed on sharks otherwise. Wow...

 

Where is the balance in that?

[Unix]

Signature Item:

Regarding that, it's not only allowed on shark, but any ship will receive the +1 signature item. Again, this is just a potential prize depending on how many squads sign up for the league. This is more than likely the max potential prize.

 

Shark Nerfing:

Wrong topic. I do support it, but at the same time people want a more powerful ship, so a +1 signature will do the trick. The point is to try and draw people.

 

fear-evil's comment:

In our squad, only four of the nine people in the squad have a shark. And like all other sharks, their makeup is pretty much the same. They're "the best" because they're the ones using them. At a certain point, money just doesnt make a difference, especially when it comes to the shark. (Since it costs the less to maximize it's potential). Not only that, but your squad has twice as many sharks as Oppressors with the same makeup pretty much. (Few minor differences here and there).

 

weasels comment:

People with good ships doesnt automatically make them good in the game. Flash Drive is probably the best example of this testament. No one in the zone except a select few actually know how powerful this signature item is, it's probably even better than omega, but flash drive itself is hard to use because of the way it must be used to maximize it's potential in game.

 

Items alone are not enough to make the player a good player in game, the fact of the matter is, items merely complement the player using it. Plenty of people have maxed out ships now, and still the same people from the old reset who were doing well are doing well now. Coincidence? Of course it takes some time commitment to get a good ship, but isnt that the entire point of Hyperspace? To spend time in pub and make ships, not just to come on once a week for a league or whatever the reason may be?

 

Oppressors might have the most stats in game to boast about, but at the same time did you think if they actually HAD money to spend? Raw-!@#$%^&* is probably the best example of this, he is on the top 10 list for a few categories, but at the same time, he doesnt even have 50k to use right now.

 

Letting newbs play from other zones is a bad idea. Generally speaking, newbs from other zones who participate in other zone;s leagues dont care about it. Not only that, this is for the population of HS, not the population of continuum. The entire concept of HS is playing in pub and building your ships from there. You get what you earn.

 

It doesnt guarantee Oppressors will win, there's no such thing. When it comes down to it weasel, the items will only bring people so far. If they actually do suck in a given ship, they'll just suck period. Let's also not forget the basis of HSTSDL, it's not basing, and Oppressors is built on the foundation of basing. Basing ships and dueling ships are two completely different things and requires a different set of abilities. So I dont see how this is rigged if I know my squad isnt built on the entire dueling concept.

 

Kelaiah's comment:

2M items are not that great, I speak from experience. 2M items dont make you unstoppable, or even close to it. I remember the first 24 hrs I had it, I felt buyers remorse, even now I dont think they're worth the 2M, sure they're pretty good stats, but let's face it, temporal core and ampere arent that far apart. Same thing with omega and baryon. If anything it's only a slight edge.

 

Kel, I "can" give my own ?money, but at the same time, do you know how much I have? I dont have enough to buy a 2M item, let's also not forget that other squads can do this too. If timestrain were to do this, they could probably get three 2M item users since they have close to 20 ppl working for the money and three ppl with close to 25k experience if not already passed that mark.

 

Simply put, 2M items dont make that big of a difference. The advantage is ever so small and other squads can use them, there is nothing stopping squads from trying to get 25k experience and pooling their money together. Timestrain is probably the only squad that has the potential to do three people with 2M items, if anything I'm giving Timestrain the benefit of allowing 2M item users and limiting their potential threat. Three people with the experience and close to 20 ppl working for the money for those three people.

 

The entire point of league prizes is to try and have people earn things that normally cant be bought or given. I remember before the reset, we had an ultrarocket levi. They earned that 10M item, and because of that they were able to use that item. Everyone had the opportunity to buy that item, the same thing goes for the +1 signature item, everyone has the opportunity to earn that item.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

People seem to be forgetting something. Oppressors is made up of pretty much all basers, not duelers. Last I checked HSTSDL isnt a basing league, it's a melee style league. Other than maybe one or two people on Oppressors besides myself, who is known to have a "good" dueling ship? If you honestly think you dont stand a chance in this league, you must really have a negative at!@#$%^&*ude about life, ?money is not the end all be all, at a certain point in Hyperspace, ?money just doesnt make a difference.

[Dadoc]

I don't really want to get into a big discussion over it, but I've seen you in center with what I can only assume to be baryon (a 2M item) and yes it does make a difference if 5 ppl (with sigs) have to try to corner you in order to kill you because you can out run any of them at any given time and with minimal to 0 drain of your energy. It seems that most people here agree with me on this. The 2M items not only contain slightly higher main stats than the comparable other sigs, but they also have a whole group of other adds that are extremely useful as well and not contained on the other sigs. This was intentional and it's fine in pub since it appears that this is the theme of HS, but a league is supposed to be balanced. In a league match this makes a big difference, particularly if one team has one and the other doesn't. To keep that balance, a league's rules should not be based on what a squad should or shouldn't have, but rather on what they actually do have...not some hypothetical prognosis.

 

Secondly, if you want to build population, the best way is not to keep out those players who are new or at least haven't been playing long enough to have a sig or to get a squad. It's tougher to build xp and money when ppl are only here at certain times. There are too many other zones people can play that they can jump right into. If they want to participate, this is a good thing so let them and win or lose, if the event is fair for all, they will return to improve and/or to be happy of their achievement. Lets try to stop this elitist at!@#$%^&*ude that someone is better than someone else merely because you play more and therefore they should not be considered or are no longer eligible. Like you said before "this is continuum" and our population comes from continuum, not HS alone. Every once in a while it may be nice to have a "vet" league. But most of the matches should be all-inclusive and balanced. Otherwise pop will not grow because nobody wants to be sitting on the sidelines of every game.

 

And again, wow a sig on a shark. I don't think people in general believe that a sig is good for a shark, but again let me restate that if you must add a sig for a shark as a prize. Then at least make it available for anyone (with a reasonable amount of xp & money) to buy a sig for their own shark to maintain that balance in pub. Otherwise this is just not fair to the rest of the population of hs regardless who wins.

 

Finally, I'm not knocking the idea of a having a league. I'm glad we are having leagues and compe!@#$%^&*ions. My main issue here is about balance. As in any decent, reputable tournament you don't stack the chips in any teams favor and expect people to just have fun and to not say anything about it. But I recognize that sometimes this happens unintentionally and it's a mere oversight. We are bringing this to your attention in hopes that you, or someone else with authority, can adjust it to keep things fair and fun for all. That is my intention and I believe the intention of most of the people here. Thanks.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Kelaiah

[Unix]

I don't really want to get into a big discussion over it, but I've seen you in center with what I can only assume to be baryon (a 2M item) and yes it does make a difference if 5 ppl (with sigs) have to try to corner you in order to kill you because you can out run any of them at any given time and with minimal to 0 drain of your energy. It seems that most people here agree with me on this. The 2M items not only contain slightly higher main stats than the comparable other sigs, but they also have a whole group of other adds that are extremely useful as well and not contained on the other sigs. This was intentional and it's fine in pub since it appears that this is the theme of HS, but a league is supposed to be balanced. In a league match this makes a big difference, particularly if one team has one and the other doesn't. To keep that balance, a league's rules should not be based on what a squad should or shouldn't have, but rather on what they actually do have...not some hypothetical prognosis.

I have Temporal Core - So in other words Kel, you've just basically proved my statement from above. It's not the items themselves that make the player, the player needs to use the items properly to make items fulfill their potential.

 

Not only that, the sublight I have is NOT fast at all, it is in fact very slow.

 

Tel's setup for example is a lot faster than my own. Let's also not forget that HSTSDL is meant about most kills, not about who can run the most.

 

And again, wow a sig on a shark. I don't think people in general believe that a sig is good for a shark, but again let me restate that if you must add a sig for a shark as a prize. Then at least make it available for anyone (with a reasonable amount of xp & money) to buy a sig for their own shark to maintain that balance in pub. Otherwise this is just not fair to the rest of the population of hs regardless who wins.

The point of winning the league if it gets to be that compe!@#$%^&*ive is that you earn something that normal players dont get. It is fair that you EARNED it by the only means necessary, if people could ?buy it, then people will whine more that elitists are ruining pub, etc etc.

 

 

I do agree that we should promote zone growth, but at the same time, the bread and butter of Hyperspace isnt the players who play once in a while, it's the people who play pub constantly.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Unix

[Dadoc]

I don't really want to get into a big discussion over it, but I've seen you in center with what I can only assume to be baryon (a 2M item) and yes it does make a difference if 5 ppl (with sigs) have to try to corner you in order to kill you because you can out run any of them at any given time and with minimal to 0 drain of your energy. It seems that most people here agree with me on this. The 2M items not only contain slightly higher main stats than the comparable other sigs, but they also have a whole group of other adds that are extremely useful as well and not contained on the other sigs. This was intentional and it's fine in pub since it appears that this is the theme of HS, but a league is supposed to be balanced. In a league match this makes a big difference, particularly if one team has one and the other doesn't. To keep that balance, a league's rules should not be based on what a squad should or shouldn't have, but rather on what they actually do have...not some hypothetical prognosis.

I have Temporal Core - So in other words Kel, you've just basically proved my statement from above. It's not the items themselves that make the player, the player needs to use the items properly to make items fulfill their potential.

 

Not only that, the sublight I have is NOT fast at all, it is in fact very slow.

 

Tel's setup for example is a lot faster than my own. Let's also not forget that HSTSDL is meant about most kills, not about who can run the most.

 

 

You purposefully miss my point again and misdirect what i say somewhere else. The point of a league should be primarily to have fun. The point of the game period is to have fun. This is my primary point and you can't have fun if the game is not balanced. Particularly in a compe!@#$%^&*ion.

 

If you read what i said, i said "!@#$%^&*ume" meaning i don't know what you have. My main point is what you (or anyone) can do with it and why it would make a league match unbalanced if one team had it and the other didn't...that's it. I know you want every edge you can get so that you can win by, as you say, "any means necessary" but this does not make a balanced league match if one team has an "edge" (ie 2M item) that other ppl don't. Period.

 

Those who run well, can also vulch well, and I think almost everyone here knows how well you vulch. But this is not just about you. I used you as an example for a 2M item because quite frankly, there are not too many other ppl to use since not too many ppl have 2M items. I even wonder how many have the xp (not to mention money) to buy it now.

 

And again, wow a sig on a shark. I don't think people in general believe that a sig is good for a shark, but again let me restate that if you must add a sig for a shark as a prize. Then at least make it available for anyone (with a reasonable amount of xp & money) to buy a sig for their own shark to maintain that balance in pub. Otherwise this is just not fair to the rest of the population of hs regardless who wins.

The point of winning the league if it gets to be that compe!@#$%^&*ive is that you earn something that normal players dont get. It is fair that you EARNED it by the only means necessary, if people could ?buy it, then people will whine more that elitists are ruining pub, etc etc.

That is a point you came up with on your own cause there are countless leagues that do not prize ppl with things that no one else gets to receive. On the occ!@#$%^&*ions where they do it, maybe they prize super, or shields or thors where they are not allowed but come on, you can't really be that naive to not know how significant an item a sig is on a shark. I could see if you were prizing cobalt or something and not allowing someone else to have it, but a sig on a shark that is everlasting and no one else can get one except those ppl who happen to win one game where only one known squad has a 2M item? Wow...I can't stop saying it. Wow...you are either really naive, or you must think we are so foolish.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Kelaiah

[Unix]

You purposefully miss my point again and misdirect what i say somewhere else. The point of a league should be primarily to have fun. The point of the game period is to have fun. This is my primary point and you can't have fun if the game is not balanced. Particularly in a compe!@#$%^&*ion.

 

If you read what i said, i said "!@#$%^&*ume" meaning i don't know what you have. My main point is what you (or anyone) can do with it and why it would make a league match unbalanced if one team had it and the other didn't...that's it. I know you want every edge you can get so that you can win by, as you say, "any means necessary" but this does not make a balanced league match if one team has an "edge" (ie 2M item) that other ppl don't. Period.

I think you missed the point, the point is, you claimed that the advantage I had was my sublight, when in fact it wasnt. My advantage is my reactor, in other words it's something you didnt even notice. If you dont notice it, that means it's barely an advantage if at all. In other words, the 2M item didnt make a big enough impact.

 

Those who run well, can also vulch well, and I think almost everyone here knows how well you vulch. But this is not just about you. I used you as an example for a 2M item because quite frankly, there are not too many other ppl to use since not too many ppl have 2M items. I even wonder how many have the xp (not to mention money) to buy it now.

If you honestly think "I" run a lot, then you havent seen runners in HS. I do admit I do vulch kills sometimes, but doesnt everyone? Also, what does that have to do with anything?

 

The point of winning the league if it gets to be that compe!@#$%^&*ive is that you earn something that normal players dont get. It is fair that you EARNED it by the only means necessary, if people could ?buy it, then people will whine more that elitists are ruining pub, etc etc.

 

That is a point you came up with on your own cause there are countless leagues that do not prize ppl with things that no one else gets to receive. On the occ!@#$%^&*ions where they do it, maybe they prize super, or shields or thors where they are not allowed but come on, you can't really be that naive to not know how significant an item a sig is on a shark. I could see if you were prizing cobalt or something and not allowing someone else to have it, but a sig on a shark that is everlasting and no one else can get one except those ppl who happen to win one game where only one known squad has a 2M item? Wow...I can't stop saying it. Wow...you are either really naive, or you must think we are so foolish.

Hyperspace is not like other zones. Hyperspace has the ability to prize you something worthwhile.

 

Btw, if you honestly think a sig on a shark over two sigs on a different ship is a good idea, you're more mistaken then I thought. Idk about you, but I would rather have double sigs rather than one sig for a shark.

 

And what makes you think this is the last league? There will be plenty of opportunities to earn a sig, and no you will not be able to win another sig if you've already won one.

 

Kel, you are "very" close to getting the exp requirement, and your squad can help you get the 2M. You already suggested the idea that I would do it, so if you suggest it for me, you can suggest it for your own squad. And last I checked, Timestrain has the greater potential to get more money than Oppressors.

[Syrith]

Haha, Raw just spent all his money on a jav, that's why.

 

Also, all (?) of your rushers have antideath.

 

Also, I say that we boycott the HSTSDL so unix can't host it. After all, who wants to compete with unfair odds, with a biased mod hosting it?

[Suicide_Run]

My opinion on how raw-!@#$%^&* doesnt have alot of money is cause he spends all the money on his ships when it isnt completely necessary.

 

One of the main problem I have is the prize that is stated (lets not mention how a subs!@#$%^&*ution system can abused). The +1 signature item for any ship is abit overkill. Sure it makes it compe!@#$%^&*ive but the prize itself is too good.

 

The prize itself is a flamebait. You are basically asking people to whine and flame the crap out of you once any squad wins it. Then you will wonder why people harbor hate toward you....

 

I rather you make the prize a 2Mil item on the ships that can have it instead even if the player doesnt have the exp for it. At least that type of prize is obtainable through normal means but you will have to put ALOT of effort to achieve it.

[Dadoc]

(Kelaiah @ May 31 2008, 08:34 AM)] *

I don't really want to get into a big discussion over it, but I've seen you in center with what I can only assume to be baryon (a 2M item) and yes it does make a difference if 5 ppl (with sigs) have to try to corner you in order to kill you because you can out run any of them at any given time and with minimal to 0 drain of your energy. It seems that most people here agree with me on this. The 2M items not only contain slightly higher main stats than the comparable other sigs, but they also have a whole group of other adds that are extremely useful as well and not contained on the other sigs. This was intentional and it's fine in pub since it appears that this is the theme of HS, but a league is supposed to be balanced. In a league match this makes a big difference, particularly if one team has one and the other doesn't. To keep that balance, a league's rules should not be based on what a squad should or shouldn't have, but rather on what they actually do have...not some hypothetical prognosis.

 

Unix,

 

I tire of the quoting game, it takes a lot of time and I'm not very good at it because I don't post much. I notice that you don't quote my original msg this time. Throughout the whole paragraph i referred to the item as a 2M item. I admitted in both my original and my replies that I didn't know which one it was and that I !@#$%^&*umed it was baryon, meaning it's a best guess and i didn't know. How you equate that to actually knowing is beyond me, but to further explain, picture my message with me not having said anything about !@#$%^&*umption, or even better, if i had put temporal instead. It makes no difference to the rest and none of it would change because that wasn't my point.

 

This is the third and final time now, my point is and was simply that the item, whatever that it was, is not a fair item if one team has it and the other doesn't. No !@#$%^&*umptions about whether a person can get it because of how close they are in xp. No !@#$%^&*umptions about who can give what to who to help them get it because we don't know what anyone can or can't do in the future or will do in the present besides ourselves. Someone could get ill and not be able to play or have to go out of town on biz or whatever and they would be perfectly valid reasons not to have it. I don't know what the future brings and I'm pretty sure you don't either so basing a rule on what is "possible" or "probable" is not a good rule. And having a match where one team has a 2M item and the other team doesn't is not a balanced match. So on the day of the match if a team (any team for that matter), doesn't have 2M and the other one does, it will not be a fair game if they compete against each other...

 

If you can't see it now, see it how you want to...it won't be the first time you've done it, that's for sure. :/

[Unix]

I tire of the quoting game, it takes a lot of time and I'm not very good at it because I don't post much. I notice that you don't quote my original msg this time. Throughout the whole paragraph i referred to the item as a 2M item. I admitted in both my original and my replies that I didn't know which one it was and that I !@#$%^&*umed it was baryon, meaning it's a best guess and i didn't know. How you equate that to actually knowing is beyond me, but to further explain, picture my message with me not having said anything about !@#$%^&*umption, or even better, if i had put temporal instead. It makes no difference to the rest and none of it would change because that wasn't my point.

The thing is... You !@#$%^&*umed that it was Baryon because I had such an advantage in regards to sublight. Since you believed I had that advantage in sublight, you !@#$%^&*umed it was Baryon, that also indicates that the Temporal Core that I have does not give me a strong enough advantage to indicate that it is in fact Temporal Core.

 

The point I am trying to make is, 2M items are not that good. They dont make your ship some kind of super ship and you have proven my point by !@#$%^&*uming that my 2M item was sublight when in fact it couldnt be further from the truth, my sublight isnt even a signature. In other words, you didnt really notice my 2M Item advantage.

 

This is the third and final time now, my point is and was simply that the item, whatever that it was, is not a fair item if one team has it and the other doesn't. No !@#$%^&*umptions about whether a person can get it because of how close they are in xp. No !@#$%^&*umptions about who can give what to who to help them get it because we don't know what anyone can or can't do in the future or will do in the present besides ourselves. Someone could get ill and not be able to play or have to go out of town on biz or whatever and they would be perfectly valid reasons not to have it. I don't know what the future brings and I'm pretty sure you don't either so basing a rule on what is "possible" or "probable" is not a good rule. And having a match where one team has a 2M item and the other team doesn't is not a balanced match. So on the day of the match if a team (any team for that matter), doesn't have 2M and the other one does, it will not be a fair game if they compete against each other...

 

If you can't see it now, see it how you want to...it won't be the first time you've done it, that's for sure. :/

Any team, including your team, can get a 2M item. I'm not playing in the HSTSDL, and no one else has a 2M item.

 

Rules about 2M items...

-Can play only for one half

-Only one for the entire match

 

In other words, they're playing for half the game only and only ONE player is allowed with it. It's not like an entire team is allowed 2M items for the entire match. It is quite fair, and if anything unfair to the person(s) who earned the 2M items. Generally speaking, it means they invested pretty much everything into that one ship, but they cant play an entire match.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Suicide_Run, I think you're forgetting something though, I said it was a potential prize, and even then it would only be if the turnout of the league was good. So there could be a lot of things, it just depends on how the league itself turns out, I dont wanna set anything in stone yet because I just dont know.

 

Syrith, if you feel like doing that feel free. Even if two squads sign up only, there'll still be some kind of prize.

[weasel]

turnout for the league won't be good unless you change it so it's fair. with the way you're rigging it, i wouldn't be surprised if oppressors is the only squad that signs up.

[Syrith]

I doubt Dr Brain and Arnk are in support of giving sharks a sig.

[Dr Brain]

I doubt Dr Brain and Arnk are in support of giving sharks a sig.

 

Don't speak in our name.

[weasel]

with the whole 2m sig issue, unix is probably right that timestrain or whatever their name is can raise 2m for it. but once again that just caps the league at 2 squads. the entire purpose of the league from what ive heard is to promote squad growth. using pub ships and allowing 2m sigs that only at max MAYBE 2 people will have does exactly the opposite.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Unix, as long as the prize is either obtainable or limited use, I DON'T CARE WHAT THE PRIZE IS. HOWEVER, IF YOU DO A PRIZE LIKE SIG ON A SHARK, YOU ARE IMBALANCING THE GAME.

 

It's as simple as that. Either you can hear these words...

 

or get whined and flamed to death. Sorry.