Guest NJank Posted May 21, 2008 Report Posted May 21, 2008 Just curious. What hooks does continuum dig into a particular Windows system during install. I noticed that I can rename the install directory at will, and the game runs fine, so there's nothing in the registry or whatnot tying the executable to a fixed location. But if I move the folder to a thumbdrive and take it to another system where I didn't perform the actual install, the program never starts. (a process never even shows up in process explorer). Thoughts? I know there are some dll's other programs need that are often copied into the system folder, but would be just fine if they also sat in the same folder as the executable. Would this be anything like that case?
rootbear75 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Posted May 21, 2008 i have run it off a flash drive often. just make sure u install it ONTO the flash drive, and not just copy-paste it there from ur Program files or wherever you have it installed
Dav Posted May 21, 2008 Report Posted May 21, 2008 actually it does work as a copy paste as well. Best to install it there though
ThunderJam Posted May 21, 2008 Report Posted May 21, 2008 Most likely your issue was certain security software that was running on whatever PC you tried to run it from your flash drive on. School pc maybe?
Hakaku Posted May 21, 2008 Report Posted May 21, 2008 Yeah, I tried this before and copied an install on my usb unto my computer, but it didn't run. I later discovered that the problem was because I had DEP enabled, which blocked Continuum from starting up. Maybe that the other system you're trying to move it on also has Windows DEP enabled?
NJank Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) sorry, should have posted this right away. So the problem was the DEP. Shortly after posting this I came across the security software issue thread. Copy paste does work as long as DEP is not turned on on the machine. I have a laptop with DEP enabled, and I had to log in as admin and call out the Continuum executable as a DEP exclusion for it to run. Everything is fine after that. On a computer without DEP, there are no further restrictions. On computers with DEP, the exclusion needs to be updated any time the file location changes (if you move the folder on the flash drive, or if the flash drive mounts with a different drive letter.) To the best of my knowledge, there is no need to run the installer on the PC you want to play on. Obviously, running off thumb drive isn't possible on a computer with DEP if you don't have Admin. no school computer lab playing with super low latency for me So I've had other executables run off a thumb drive even though DEP was enabled, and haven't had to set exclusions. What is it that triggers DEP? is it that it's a network aware program? Edit: according to microsoft, it is recommended that DEP not be disabled. Instead, the author or vendor of the offending software be contacted and asked to fix their software to not violate DEP. Edited May 22, 2008 by Nick J.
rootbear75 Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 Edit: according to microsoft, it is recommended that DEP not be disabled. Instead, the author or vendor of the offending software be contacted and asked to fix their software to not violate DEP.good luck lol.... also, i have never had a problem with DEP, using continuum on a flash drive or w/e... Disabling DEP is not the "work all" solution. In fact, i think that its actually other programs BESIDES Windows DEP that are causing it from running....Like i said, i have NEVER had a problem, not on XP Home, XP Pro, Win 2K Pro, nor vista.... am i like special or something?
NJank Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) "am i like special or something?" you just might be. It really depends on the security policy set for the PC, and likely will only come up in a managed WinXP pro setup. I had no issues other than turning off DEP, and I'm running Symantec AV and Windows firewall is up, etc. DEP is only supposed to get set off something tries to run executable code from a memory page that is supposed to be data only. Now, not being an application developer, I have no idea about the how you would actually control such things. It may be that symantec does something when you run the continuum executable that sets off DEP. I'd buy that. But what's different between Continuum and my Nintendo emulator sitting on the same thumb drive. One sets off DEP, the other doesn't. Edited May 22, 2008 by Nick J.
rootbear75 Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 "am i like special or something?" you just might be. It really depends on the security policy set for the PC, and likely will only come up in a managed WinXP pro setup. I had no issues other than turning off DEP, and I'm running Symantec AV and Windows firewall is up, etc. DEP is only supposed to get set off something tries to run executable code from a memory page that is supposed to be data only. Now, not being an application developer, I have no idea about the how you would actually control such things. It may be that symantec does something when you run the continuum executable that sets off DEP. I'd buy that. But what's different between Continuum and my Nintendo emulator sitting on the same thumb drive. One sets off DEP, the other doesn't.i have used continuum in a managed OS setting... i used it at school even stored it on our school hard drive. I didnt have any problems with Admin rights or anything (maybe thats just the settings of the drive, dont know
Hakaku Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 But what's different between Continuum and my Nintendo emulator sitting on the same thumb drive. One sets off DEP, the other doesn't.The difference is, your Nintendo emulator isn't a protected program that was primarily designed for Windows 98. Continuum triggers DEP because for one, it was designed for older versions of Windows, so the software code isn't up-to-date. Secondly, Continuum also has some built-in security mesures preventing its source from being edited or modified; that's the main reason why Continuum has had a lot of compatibility problems with firewalls in the past (although mostly fixed since 0.40). But more accurately: Data Execution Prevention (DEP) is a security feature included in more modern Microsoft Windows operating systems that is intended to prevent an application or service from executing code from a non-executable memory region.You don't have to disable DEP per say, in fact, Windows Vista doesn't allow you to disable it. Rather, open up DEP and add the Continuum executable to the exceptions list (as listed in one of the stickied faqs).
NJank Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) "You don't have to disable DEP per say, in fact," Understood, and adding the exception is what I had done. But in either case is an admin function to deliberately work around a security feature, and gets frowny points from those who would care about such things. Edited May 22, 2008 by Nick J.
»CypherJF Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 It'd be nice to see it as a portal app where the registry settings are stored in a file, etc.
NJank Posted May 23, 2008 Report Posted May 23, 2008 actually, i don't think there are any registry settings (what I meant by hooks above) confirm?
Samapico Posted May 23, 2008 Report Posted May 23, 2008 Continuum does save/load a lot of settings to/from the registry
Snrrrub Posted May 23, 2008 Report Posted May 23, 2008 Allow me to set the record straight about Continuum and DEP. DEP (Data Execution Prevention) is available on Windows (XP SP2+) systems if you have a processor that supports the NX bit (No eXecute). There's also software-enforced DEP but that's only for system binaries so I won't go into that here. By default, DEP is only enabled for system binaries and other apps that opt-in to be protected. It's possible that DEP is enabled for all applications on your machine if the distributor (e.g. Dell, Gateway, etc.) modified the default Windows install. Why does Continuum trigger DEP while other applications don't? Because Continuum uses a packer that executes code in data pages, triggering DEP. Continuum itself never executes anything in data pages. As a side note, it may be possible to repack Continuum with a modified PeX that 'VirtualProtect's the allocated memory with PAGE_EXECUTE_READWRITE. Doing so would solve all of the DEP issues that people are having since the pages wouldn't have NX set. I don't remember off the top of my head whether the Continuum startup sequence checks the packer code integrity so this approach could potentially fail but that's fairly easy to test. If someone has a bit of spare time and wants to take this project on, I would certainly help out in every possible way. -Snrrrub
Snrrrub Posted May 23, 2008 Report Posted May 23, 2008 I just did a quick check and it seems that Continuum does indeed check the packer code. Another option might be to write a loader - just load the packer and the (unpacked) Continuum binaries in the right place in the address space and jump to Continuum's entry point. No data execution, no packer/Continuum modifications - Continuum shouldn't complain. -Snrrrub
rootbear75 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Posted May 23, 2008 Continuum does save/load a lot of settings to/from the registryi couldnt find a single one except references to the exe, the uninstaller, and random do!@#$%^&*ents placed in the continuum folder......
Gannon8 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Posted June 2, 2008 I have a program called "Ceedo" that lets me install stuff onto my flash drive (you also need "Argo," which will let you use any installer fire as opposed to just the ones on the web site). It works ok, but takes time from the point from which you click "play" to the point it actually starts.
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