Signature Bombs

[Gar]

http://i30.tinypic.com/24o8x6w.jpg

 

 

 

So in analyzing different bomb values, I found that Heat Reaver and Falcon Missile are almost exactly the same in every respect. You don't really need to understand all these values to see that they're all almost the same.

 

Heat Reaver is Falcon Missile with prox.

 

I think this is very weak in terms of design. Throw prox on an existing bomb and make it sig? We already have a very limited amount of useful bombs. In fact, looking at our available bombs more, the sig bombs follow a formula. There are three sig bombs, one of each level and scaling up in bomb energy, all with shrap. This is incredibly lazy design. Where are the interesting differences between sig bombs? Non-sig bombs have a great variety - salvo through smart bomb all have interesting differences. Why can't the same be true for sig bombs?

 

I am certain that sig bombs were designed in this manner:

Heat Reaver was the first sig bomb, a test concept, made by throwing prox and sig on a Falcon Missile.

Then about 100 bombdelay, shrap, and a bomblevel was added to Heat Reaver, making Cluster Bomb. Dev thought, 'Oops, can't just make it purely better', and took away prox from Cluster Bomb.

Then about 100 bombdelay, a shrap, and a bomblevel was added to Cluster Bomb, making TacNuke. Dev thought, 'TacNuke has some history to it as being powerful.' and added prox back.

Then Dev thought, 'Oops, TacNuke is too powerful now', so Dev split TacNuke into its bomb and mine components, forming a mineless TacNuke and a bombless Antimatter Mines.

 

I submit that this is ridiculously poor design, and needs reworking. Sig bombs should have each been designed separately, with a role in mind. They should not have been descended from eachother and made to be ridiculously similar.

 

On another note, Cluster Bomb produces less shrap over time than both Falcon and Heat Reaver. Given that it is listed as a 'signature shrapnel bomb' (which is nonsensical because all the sig bombs have shrap), shouldn't it be the leader in shrap production? Only TacNuke produces less shrap over time, and that by a small amount. There's seriously no reason to use Cluster Bomb over TacNuke or Heat Reaver. If you are going for damage, TacNuke has prox, greater splash (level 3) and comparable shrap, while, if you are going for shrap, Heat Reaver has prox (which helps more shrap come out) and greater shrap to begin with. Cluster Bomb is inferior.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Gar

[Gar]

I propose a replacement to Cluster Bomb, something that will break the step-formula currently in place and replace a useless bomb. It is also only available to ships 2 and 4, giving them some needed uniqueness.

 

!@#$%^&*fire Missile

Buy Price $60000

Sell Price $25900

Exp 5500

Ships 2 4

 

A devastating rapid-fire weapon from another age, the !@#$%^&*fire Missile drains massive amounts of energy for the ability to flood an area with shrapnel.

 

bomblevel +1

shrapnel +2

bombdelay = 40

bombenergy = 425

maxmines = 5

minedelay = 11

mineenergy = 305

 

 

 

The mines function as quick as String of Pearls, except at three times the energy cost (following !@#$%^&*fire's theme). The mines are a secondary function for flavor, and I don't want them used like String of Pearls (i.e. overpowered re!@#$%^&*edness).

 

This setup allows !@#$%^&*fire Missiles to be used 'vanilla' (i.e. without SMulti or SBooster) at 1063 energy per second for 2.2 shots/second, which produces 5 shraps a second, a rate equal to Cluster Bomb with both SMulti and SBooster right now. This setup results in a short but deadly burst of level 1 bombs and shrapnel. This setup is probably more useful for a Javelin than a Leviathan.

 

Or, alternatively, (Wow, 2 different uses for the same bomb? Who would have thought!) , with SMulti and SBooster, !@#$%^&*fire Missile changes drastically. It becomes a 125 delay bomb that costs 500, draining a modest 400 energy per second for a shot every 1.25 seconds, producing 6.4 shraps a second. This beats Heat Reaver + SMulti + SBooster by .7 shraps a second, which is the standard 'step up' (TacNuke 4.3, Cluster 5.0, Heat Reaver 5.7). This setup results in a moderately timed bomb (same delay as Heat Reaver and close to Falcon) with a drain about twice that of most other bombs, but producing massive amounts of shrapnel. This setup is probably more useful for a Leviathan than a Javelin.

 

I fully believe that something like this could provide an alternative to TacNuke for Leviathans, offering almost 2 more shraps a second in exchange for less splash damage from the actual bomb.

 

Let me know what you think.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Gar

[Sharpflame]

Cluster bomb SUCKS.

 

There is definitely not enough variety in Bombs, limiting ship customizations.

 

Ideas for Bombs:

 

L1 bomb with a crapton of shrapnel. Mostly only useful for spamming shrap into areas, otherwise sucks.
EMP Shockwave, For weasels only, L3 bomb with bombdelay between HE Missile and Smart Bomb.
L3 bomb with prox. Ta-Da, a sniper's bomb.
Levi-only L2 bomb with faster-than-salvo bomb delay. Cyclone, anyone?
L1 bomb which excels in costing little energy.

 

 

.... more bombs pl0x kthxbye.

[Gar]

Any feedback on my !@#$%^&*fire missile idea? I think it matches the level 1 shrapnel bomb you wanted.

 

edit: Is it possible to change the damage done by bombs? The bomb system is severely hampered by all bombs being the same damage...

Edited May 14, 2008 by Gar

[linger]

cool idea gar

[aquarius]

I suggest you redesign everything you see fit, and ill try to make use of your effort.

[Matrim Cauthon]

!@#$%^&*fire Missile

Buy Price $60000

Sell Price $25900

Exp 5500

Ships 2 4

 

A devastating rapid-fire weapon from another age, the !@#$%^&*fire Missile drains massive amounts of energy for the ability to flood an area with shrapnel.

 

bomblevel +1

shrapnel +2

bombdelay = 40

bombenergy = 425

maxmines = 5

minedelay = 11

mineenergy = 305

so your planning to make the new "cyclone" rush weapon?(delay lower than salvo...it could help some)

 

So in analyzing different bomb values, I found that Heat Reaver and Falcon Missile are almost exactly the same in every respect. You don't really need to understand all these values to see that they're all almost the same.

 

Falcon could kill in 1 hit, but u need good aim. Heat reaver takes alot of hits, but the prox makes it so its hard to dodge, dont u find it annoying people will just keep spamming HRs at u and u wont be able to recharge and fire back?

There's seriously no reason to use Cluster Bomb over TacNuke or Heat Reaver. If you are going for damage, TacNuke has prox, greater splash (level 3) and comparable shrap,

cluster is useful in base actually, falcon and heat reaver may shoot faster and produce decent shrap, but the splash is low, so if all nmes rush together, all you're hitting is the first couple guys, and tacnuke's prox make it explode in some extremely useless positions, which reduces most of the dmg and most of the shrap. Cluster delivers a strong fatal blow with splash and plenty of shrap, it actually kills pretty fast if u actually tried it, and the lack of prox actually helps it hit better.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Matrim Cauthon

[Unix]

Biggest problem is people are expecting a one hit wonder to kill people with.

 

You need to use the bomb to either... weaken them or finish them. A lot of the bombs are finishing bombs, not to kill in one hit.

[Dr Brain]

The major issue is that there's really only one bomb damage setting. That means guns have three times the variety right off the bat.

[Kilo]

Heat Reaver has been the problem child. Might reimagine that one into something with a bit less shrap but better stats in other areas. Either way it's not really similar to FM when you're talking about direct combat. That'd be like saying impact bomb and harpy missile are similar.

 

Cluster Bomb does not suck, but it's not for everyone.

 

I've had some bombs waiting to be baked for a while but school has held me back

expect more item additions in the future

do not expect anything that has a fire delay less than salvo

ever

seeing as salvo is already very popular

but not for the bomb part of it

[Unix]

Give cyclone back to wzl/shark only

 

Cyclone for EMP = Near useless to cause bomb damage, but it'll give rushing ships, which shark/wzl are more geared toward than other ships an advantage to rush with.

 

Then again I dont think shark needs it, but if wzl gets it, so should the shark since they're both EMP based ships.

 

Biggest problem with old cyclone was that EMP caused damage, now it doesnt.

[Kilo]

Did you not understand

"seeing as salvo is already very popular

but not for the bomb part of it"

Aka damage has nothing to do with it

 

EMP doesn't do damage, it shuts down your recharge

and the amount it shuts down your recharge more than makes up for the damage that regular bombs do

that is all

[Unix]

Not really, EMP isnt worth shooting because of the amount of energy it takes to shoot and then the delay (for most bombs) to even fire something afterwards makes the EMP user vulnerable to an attack for who knows how long, especially in the open, in a base it isnt worth using beacuse of ammo costs and not making up for it, let's face it, in a base people arent going to care about your recharge being 0, they're going to care about thier energy getting closer to 0 - It's fine that it goes closer to zero faster, it's not like you were expecting to live anyways, right?

 

I know for me personally, I dont care one bit that my recharge stop, I'll use my reps and bursts, and I'll still rush in just as hard and still be just as effective, it's not like I'll die a lot faster, only a little faster, I still have my energy.

 

Sharks are pretty much the same, they dont care, their energy still picks them up, and they;re still able to move and eventually their recharge will be back, probably by the tim they're passed the enemy.

 

Salvo could become the generic rush bomb or item spamming bomb, then cyclone differentiates itself from so so rushing ships to the ships that are more naturally adept to rushing.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Unix

[linger]

i hated cyclone made weazle to invincible but that was also because the bursts had god like speed and was impossible to dodge or run from

[Gar]

Not that anyone noticed, but the !@#$%^&*fire Missile was only for Jav and Leviathan. If you want to make a rusher out of those, go ahead.

 

Biggest problem is people are expecting a one hit wonder to kill people with.

 

You need to use the bomb to either... weaken them or finish them. A lot of the bombs are finishing bombs, not to kill in one hit.

I have a serious problem with this ultrageneralization.

 

Nobody wants a one hit wonder. They want a useable weapon. You expect a Levi to bomb someone and then finish them with guns?

Edited May 14, 2008 by Gar

[Kilo]

And that is why Unix is not good at this game.

[oid]

I wish there was moab in game . Maybe add more energy cost to the old one and make it non-sig?

[QUAX]

L3 bomb with prox. Ta-Da, a sniper's bomb.

 

 

A sniper's bomb wouldn't have prox because a good sniper would know how to aim and use his radar. A L3 bomb with prox is a noob's bomb.

[vetta64]

some ppl need a noob bomb aka

<---------------------------------

[Suicide_Run]

Seriously, we do not need a bomb that has less delay than salvo. Most people have salvo cause of the low bomb delay so they can spam burst/reps/thors faster than ever. Making it only for empers means people will just make only those ships for rushing.

 

Btw gar, its not that hard to make a jav/levi rushing ship seeing how a rushing ship is defined by how much they can spam items.

 

Slap a rocket on a levi and u get a rushing levi, add some defense mount on jav and it becomes a rushing ship. Not very hard as long as you have the money to fuel your desires.

[Gar]

Alright, make the !@#$%^&*fire Missile's delay 51, equal to Salvo. Problem solved. Or, god forbid we get creative, and have !@#$%^&*fire Missile come with -3 burstmax. Edited May 14, 2008 by Gar

[cow888]

THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERNETS

 

I must know how the Cluster Bomb produces less shrapnel than the Falcon Missile.

 

And yeah, MOAR bombs. I especially like the idea of a low-energy-cost bomb.

[Gar]

Basically, because Falcon Missile fires faster, so its shrapnel adds up quicker.

 

Also, all of the figures I discussed don't take into account prox vs no prox. Cluster Bomb does not have prox so 1/4 to 1/2 of its shrap won't appear (ship or wall will absorb it)

[Matrim Cauthon]

he missile and impact bomb uses very little nrg

[Sharpflame]

he missile and impact bomb uses very little nrg

 

Yeah, a whole third of the damage it might end up doing.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Sharpflame