Subspace 2

[JDS]

From what ive gatherd (correct me if im wrong) , but the subspace next gen that you guys are working on is really just like those starwars space games where you fly in all X, Y, and Z directions.. Its good but essencialy it fails horribly.

why?

If we wanted to fly like that we wouldnt be playing subspace.. Clearly subspace is loved and still played because of its simple X direction only gameplay..

 

 

Maybe you care, maybe not.. but i will tell you what ive always pictured subspace2 to be like..

-top down view (just like it is now)

-!@#$%^&*pit view for turrets (would be freakin awesome / turrets of course, could still use the conventional topdown view as well)

-ships / tiles / everything that used to be made in a bmp would have to be made in a 3d render

-more maneuverabilty like special dodges (backflips, front flips, barrel rolls, ship back boosters to make you do a fast stop if your flying to fast)

-.. The settings could use some simplicity to them, but really dont need to add too many things.. probably just more bombs, bullets (more variety)

 

but yea, really .. i know i cant do anything to help on the matter, however making subspace2 a better version of subspace1 would be a much better approach than trying to make somthing completely diffrent (yet has already been done before with a different theme (starwars) and failed horibly market wise)

 

cause yea, subspace as it is right now, but 3d rendered, would be !@#$%^&* awesome

[tcsoccerman]

Subspace : The Future is going to be more of an operating system than a game, given that it will be very functional and changeable.

 

On topic, i would agree that top down view with added 3d and physics effects would be cool. For example, when a ship turns right it leans to the right as well, and stuff like that.

[Samapico]

One of the objectives is to make a classic Subspace-style game possible... as tcsoccerman said, once the engine is done, it should be very flexible to adapt to many gameplay types. Top-down-view fights and full 3D should both be possible. We'll probably start by making it work with top-down view, since it will probably be simpler anyway

[Dav]

I like the sound of that.

 

I think of of the things that has really kept continuum going is the adaptability of it, it is something that should be expanded heavily in any new version.

[Wildclaw]

One of the objectives is to make a classic Subspace-style game possible... as tcsoccerman said, once the engine is done, it should be very flexible to adapt to many gameplay types. Top-down-view fights and full 3D should both be possible. We'll probably start by making it work with top-down view, since it will probably be simpler anyway

 

The difference between making an engine that specifically runs in a 2D plane and an engine that is free 3D is pretty huge.

 

When you have free 3d, you suddenly got to have a much more complex map/object handling system which puts far more strain on both server and client. Not to mention the map editor and format itself becomes far more complex. You can no longer use a simple grid system.

 

I would heavily suggest staying in a 2d plane, engine wise, for the first release as it would very much increase the chances of this project actually reaching its end goal (taking on too much is one big reason for failed hobby projects). There are already game engines for free 3D-flight. Let those engines focus on what they do and instead let this project become the pinnacle of top-down combat.

 

This isn't a small thing like the friction debate which is pretty silly considering the easy of implementing it. This is a huge part of how the engine will work. Very little can be done game engine wise until the issue has been clearly decided.

[VanHelsing]

The difference between making an engine that specifically runs in a 2D plane and an engine that is free 3D is pretty huge.

 

When you have free 3d, you suddenly got to have a much more complex map/object handling system which puts far more strain on both server and client. Not to mention the map editor and format itself becomes far more complex. You can no longer use a simple grid system.

 

I would heavily suggest staying in a 2d plane, engine wise, for the first release as it would very much increase the chances of this project actually reaching its end goal (taking on too much is one big reason for failed hobby projects). There are already game engines for free 3D-flight. Let those engines focus on what they do and instead let this project become the pinnacle of top-down combat.

 

This isn't a small thing like the friction debate which is pretty silly considering the easy of implementing it. This is a huge part of how the engine will work. Very little can be done game engine wise until the issue has been clearly decided.

 

Agreed here.

[rootbear75]

i think when they are referencing the switch over, the server itself would lock controls on the Z-axis as well as the camera in a certain position.

 

basically, you know how you have rotation speeds and such? i imagine that there will be an X-rot, Y-rot, and Z-rot variables. Set 2 of them equal to 0, and you prevent your ship from rolling and or pitching, but not turning. Then lock the camera in the top down mode, and it works fine.

[»doc flabby]

The difference between making an engine that specifically runs in a 2D plane and an engine that is free 3D is pretty huge.

 

When you have free 3d, you suddenly got to have a much more complex map/object handling system which puts far more strain on both server and client. Not to mention the map editor and format itself becomes far more complex. You can no longer use a simple grid system.

 

I would heavily suggest staying in a 2d plane, engine wise, for the first release as it would very much increase the chances of this project actually reaching its end goal (taking on too much is one big reason for failed hobby projects). There are already game engines for free 3D-flight. Let those engines focus on what they do and instead let this project become the pinnacle of top-down combat.

Ya I agree most of that, the inital task is to get the top-down 2d engine working (or as prehpas it should be called 2.5D),

however i still want to represent everything in the game space in 3D. I think in the long term starting from this position will be more beneficial. Free-flight (its not a flight sim after all:P) is well down the list of priorities. That does not however mean 3d motion is not a priority.

 

i think when they are referencing the switch over, the server itself would lock controls on the Z-axis as well as the camera in a certain position.

 

basically, you know how you have rotation speeds and such? i imagine that there will be an X-rot, Y-rot, and Z-rot variables. Set 2 of them equal to 0, and you prevent your ship from rolling and or pitching, but not turning. Then lock the camera in the top down mode, and it works fine.

Incidentally that functionality is already possible in the engine as it stands at the moment.

 

 

The next big issue to address is level format, I need a sucessor to the LVL. I have had some quite interesting suggestions with the use of layered LVL. That is a a level made out of multiple tiled levels

Edited June 4, 2008 by doc flabby

[Sass]

I like the idea of 3 dimensional movement but not the 3Dish fake look of zones such as Desert Storm the Infantry game. Everything is off perspective and nothing feels right.

 

The flips and rolls idea first brought up on this topic are excellent ideas and it would also be nice if you could move on the z-axis but you would need to represent the ship as getting smaller and bigger or changing the shadow or w/e.

 

I also agree that engines out there that already do 3D are way ahead of you. Most of you will graduate college and be into your main job long before you can penetrate the major obstacle of getting people to buy into your 3D system...let alone a community of designers to support it.

 

Continuum obviously needs a lot of upgrades but what it seems like here is you guys are trying to build a rocket to do the job of a simple automobile.

[Samapico]

[Sass]

Yeah, but you guys aren't keeping the scope within reasonable proportion. I don't want to be the bearer of reality, but I think the odds are against you just on the basis of scope creep. That make sense? Do you have a plan consisting of achievable steps or is everyone just going on hope and luck?

[»doc flabby]

I like the idea of 3 dimensional movement but not the 3Dish fake look of zones such as Desert Storm the Infantry game. Everything is off perspective and nothing feels right.

The game engine is true 3D. The flexibilitiy of the engine means you could still go for the fake 2Dish view if you wanted to.

 

I also agree that engines out there that already do 3D are way ahead of you. Most of you will graduate college and be into your main job long before you can penetrate the major obstacle of getting people to buy into your 3D system...let alone a community of designers to support it.

Yes if you want a FPS or an RTS theres x100 engines out there i've yet to find a convincing (free) 3D engine for use in a game like this.

You may remember GalacticMelee that used the Ogre3D engine it was slow and i felt struggled to fit the game.

 

Finding Designers for the ships and object will be relativly easy as the engine will support a number of generic model formats for ships (only milkshake3d at the moment). These are off the shelf formats used in many games.

 

The problem I am struggling with at the moment is what format to use for levels as formats. I may have a look at the format decent uses.

We already have great LVL editing tools.

 

The aim is to use off the shelf tools where possible to make it easy to develop for the platform.

 

Yeah, but you guys aren't keeping the scope within reasonable proportion. I don't want to be the bearer of reality, but I think the odds are against you just on the basis of scope creep. That make sense? Do you have a plan consisting of achievable steps or is everyone just going on hope and luck?

Probably more hope and luck than planning.

 

The aim/plan is to produce a playable demo which has similar functionality to Subspace by the end of the year.

 

eg: You can play online and shoot other people in a spaceship.

Anything more than that is a bonus, but thats the benchmark.

[rootbear75]

question about the LVL format you're considering, um how would you go about editing it?

will we use the same basic DMCE-type editor? but instead of tiles, have cubes?

[Samapico]

I think it should be possible (as shown with the 3D lvl viewer) to simply convert 2D dcme-style maps to cube-based 3D maps. For full 3D maps, however, you need something that looks like most modern 3D map editor (valve's hammer, UT map editor, things like that)

 

But most likely, there would be a way to create a 3D environment with polygons / basic solids

[tcsoccerman]

yeh i'd just say use dcme except have the tile edit all sides, something like this:

 

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- -

- -

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[JDS]

yea exactly tcsoccerman, i dont think subspace 2 would thrive as a FULL space 3d enviroment.. in fact i think it would fail and be !@#$%^&*ing hard to replicate subspace to just as good a game but in full 3d space enviroment..

 

keep it subspace, but make it 3d, with blocks and stuff / pollygons/triangles..

[MillenniumMan]

This probably has been mentioned to (over)death countless times on countless revisions of this board. Something similar has been implemented called Andromeda9. 3D top-down version of SS/CONT. Complete with barrel rolls, rendered damage to the ships and so forth. The big difference is that A9 has no population and therefore is about to die. Do what I've done, steal some code, slap it together with some of your own ideas, make SS2 work the way you want it to.

 

Me personaly, I like the Thirdspace layout, minus the fact that mines and a couple other items have become obsolete in the game. Don't get me wrong. I still like SubSpace, but I also like being in my ship as well, not just watching the gameplay from above.

[»jabjabjab]

Mines can work, they just need hella prox. Maybe when a ship gets in range on the proximity, make a ticking noise. They can also work in really small tunnels. Edited July 18, 2009 by jabjabjab

[»doc flabby]

This probably has been mentioned to (over)death countless times on countless revisions of this board. Something similar has been implemented called Andromeda9. 3D top-down version of SS/CONT. Complete with barrel rolls, rendered damage to the ships and so forth. The big difference is that A9 has no population and therefore is about to die. Do what I've done, steal some code, slap it together with some of your own ideas, make SS2 work the way you want it to.

 

First time it has been mentioned, defiantly worth a look,

I'm looking at taking the project in a different direction,

This sounds very similar to what I'm trying to to.

[Samapico]

Mines can work, they just need hella prox. Maybe when a ship gets in range on the proximity, make a ticking noise. They can also work in really small tunnels.

The game Freelancer has mines that are kind of attracted to nearby ships, and they blow up when close enough of a ship or collide with it. Basically like a heat-seeking missile with variable thrust

 

[»jabjabjab]

Maybe for certain arenas, you could add regenerating mine fields that do what Samapico was talking about. Edited July 23, 2009 by jabjabjab

[Lex]

Oh that's really funny because I'm working on something exactly like that... Redesigning Continuum to a 3D graphics but with a 2D gameplay. In fact the really basic movements are already working (and even multiplayer). I could record a video and post a link here if you want but it's really in early development stages so you shouldn't expect much.

[»Purge]

Sure, that'd be great.

 

At this stage, much isn't being done on major development projects, so your project may as well save us all.

[»Xog]

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7152/subspace2.png

 

Stand-alone client .. test if u wish

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwW6i5WSPKfHMzZmYmYzMTItY2MyNC00MmFkLTgxNGEtZmE4MzRlNzZmZjVk&hl=en&authkey=CJXLqfQO

 

afk until further updates

[»Xog]

here is a new update from one of the developers for Subspace 2

 

no test clients available, but i will update when one becomes available

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRUL3kseBjo

 

warbird shot after docking at around 3:35

Edited November 30, 2011 by Xog