Ships

[Unix]

Depending on what the next items from Arnk are, the levi rusher I have can be made into a pretty good rusher.

 

Syrith, I find it interesting that you've yet to combat any of my sound facts or arguments. Rather you attack me instead of the arguments I pose to you.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Unix

[Matrim Cauthon]

I attack you? huh?

[Unix]

I attack you? huh?

MB, wrong person, been edited now

[Kilo]

Y'all need to remember something, and that is what shark is good at (unique traits)

- It is small

- It has good base energy for its size

- It has the best base recharge in the game, plus the best recharge per energy

 

And now let's remember what other ships are good at

- Equipping signature items

- Equipping capacity items

- Equipping l3 guns

- Equipping l2-l3 bombs

- Equipping a whole bunch of other items labeled for not ship 8

- Having either guns/bombs not move at the speed of SLOW

 

It may or may not be the case that one set makes up for the other, but so what? Sharks are going to be popular in any case, they already have the WEAKEST offense of any ship, but in a basing game that doesn't really matter because no one seems to know how to fire weapons at them until they die.

 

Shark is going to be the odd ship out (or in?) just because it doesn't follow the same rules the other ships do, and for that there is no simple solution to fix whatever is broken, though I'm not sure everyone agrees anything is really broken?

 

P.S. Sharpflame, you are still terrible at this stuff, your at!@#$%^&*ude shows as much. Any random toying of the num pad by me would yield better results than you would obtain while trying.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Kilo

[Suicide_Run]

Not to mention it sucks centering as op2rules once said in game: All of shark's power has been diverted to basing. I guess people just dont want 1 ship to specialize in 1 thing but they want it to be average at all things.....just like terr.

 

Btw, if people feel that sharks can push a team and kill them. Why not just reduce the # of burst that comes out of the ship? Then all it would be able to do it slip p!@#$%^&* and shoot you unless your dumb enough to sit beside a wall and let the shark give you full burst.

[Unix]

Arnk, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time. None of that matters. Shark makes up for the lack of sig and capacity. You knew full well that the shark had this potenial from the get go. If you had given it a sig and capacity ability it would had been obviously overpowered and now it's just probably overpowered. A team of sharks vs a team of nonsharks, the shark team will clearly win unless the nonshark team continuously kills the lanc.

 

Suicide, a center shark cannot be a basing shark. I have seen a center shark, and it was very powerful. Kel used it well and equipped it well, even with my wb I had a hard time beating him because of his super recharge and respectable maneuverability alongside with higher energies. Let's not forget that it's hard to aim at.

[Suicide_Run]

So unix, out of all the posts you made about sharks.....can you tell me/us how you think it should be nerfed cause I have yet to figure it out seeing how you only post about its "problems" and no solutions. Or I probably just missed it in your posts about how sharks are overpowered.

 

Would you prefer a whack at it's recharge? A chop in their speed? A cut in their thrust? How about smacking their energy down? Maybe beating it's rotation abit? Or.....what about a gang beat to lower all of those at once?

[Unix]

The thing is, I really just don't know what to do about the shark, but obviously something needs to be done. It could be one thing or a few things that's required to fix the shark to not make it overpowered because from what I'm feeling is that it's the mix of what the shark is is what makes it so powerful.

 

The recharge, the profile, the speed, the maneuverability. All of that makes the shark a great ship, both in and out of base. Sig or no sig this shark is already better than the other ships.

 

I believe the problem comes from the rechatge and ad. Get rid of the super recharge and I think it will be far less overpowered.

[Syrith]

Let's not forget that it's hard to aim at.

 

Maybe for you (and most of the public population) that holds true, but sharks can be easily stopped using the proper techniques. First of all, what ships do you own? Wb? Wzl? Levi? and Lanc? None of those ships are well suited for killing sharks.

 

Syrith, I find it interesting that you've yet to combat any of my sound facts or arguments. Rather you attack me instead of the arguments I pose to you.

That's because I don't need to combat your unsound opinions.

 

 

Sharks are fine the way they are.

[Matrim Cauthon]

wow sharks got a nerf...went from 1500-2250 to 1499-2249

[Unix]

Those "nerfs" do almost nothing. Be a little more serious? It's not like what is being proposed is unreasonable or drastic or unfounded.

 

In a base, I dont think you need to have the proper ship to shoot something. And just so you know, in my lanc I've killed plenty of sharks, in general lanc is the last line of defense against a shark, because of it's poor gun speed, the bullets concentrate up, and if the shark runs into it, the shark has a high chance of dying since it cant recover from it. I find it interesting how you can comment about defending against the shark when I've yet to see you even defend it.

 

If they were unsound opinions, why are you the only one who thinks that Sharks arent overpowered? Dont say that Arnk thinks they arent overpowered, if he didnt think they had the potential to even be somewhat overpowered, he wouldnt of had shark not allow sigs/capacities on them.

 

I was thinking over again in how to nerfen the shark so that way it's within reason and not so overpowered. The recharge is the only real way to nerf it while keeping the shark the way it is. The recharge seems to be the root of the problem more than anything, mroe than the energy, more than the maneuverability, it's the recharge.

 

While a shark is repping, the recharge on the shark allows it to recover

While a shark is dodging, the recharge on the shark allows it to recover

While a shark is taking damage slowly, the recharge on the shark allows it to recover

 

Anything the shark does, that massive recharge is what makes it so powerful. In center it's hard to take out because unlike you, the shark actually will not only recharge faster than you, but will also STOP your recharge with its EMP bomb. For those who dont know an effective center shark makeup, harpy + phaser will do the trick.

[Unix]

Btw a side note, nice stat changes for the terr and wzl. Now it's definitely more evened out for the two ships in regards to basing between the two ships.

 

wzl may possibly be better at pure rushing in comparison to the terr, but the terr can still do more than the wzl in a base.

[Dr Brain]

No one here grasps how subtle changes completely change the balance of the game. Demanding quick and decisive changes are a sure way to get your ideas ignored, Unix.

 

Arnk has taken a different approach than I have when changing settings, he feels that incrementally changing things over several days will help reduce the impact while still getting things balanced. I usually would just throw the final settings in during the middle of a flag game and watch the chaos ensue.

[Syrith]

I find it interesting how you can comment about defending against the shark when I've yet to see you even defend it.

 

Umm... do you ever pay attention to anything other than yourself and shark rushers? I was on the same team as YOU in my terrier ON A PRIV, successfully stopping EVERY shark that got within my range.

 

If they were unsound opinions, why are you the only one who thinks that Sharks arent overpowered?

 

I'm the only person who thinks Sharks aren't overpowered? Wrong again Unix. There's plenty of others who agree with me.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Syrith

[Unix]

Brain, Arnk has never done any kind of incremental changes, this is more along the lines of a slap in the face. Not only that, I didnt suggest a drastic change, I suggested a decrease in the recharge while keeping everything the same.

 

Considering the other changes that Arnk has done to nerf things just changing the recharge alone while keeping everything the same would be what Arnk would normally do if he was serious about changing something. It might make a difference in the thrust, but overall it wont make that huge of a difference.

 

As for an exact amount for recharge for the shark.... 2000

 

Terr has slightly less recharge, shark will have more than wzl, and we should see a difference with a 249 decrease in recharge.

 

Syrith, I pay attention to everyone when basing, but afterwards if I dont see anything they do worth watching I dont watch as much.

[Dr Brain]

They've obviously been too incremental for you to notice. I've seen him do it many times. Usually because I'm discussing it with him and know where to look.

[»D1st0rt]

nerd arguments itt

 

there have been 573 modifications made to items since april 1st, I don't feel like figuring out how many have been made to settings

[Suicide_Run]

You know what...I want shark to be nerfed. No I dont want little recharge slap, I want a major beat down till shark becomes disabled!

 

That way....all those people who only have sharks as their main rushing ship gets screwed

Edited May 1, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[rootbear75]

I usually would just throw the final settings in during the middle of a flag game and watch the chaos ensue.

DUDE, thats so awesome ROFL. let me know next time you do this... i want to be there

[Sharpflame]

Just wanna throw in another opinion. The smallest ship should not be able to tank like a levi. Nor have better recharge than the weasel (Or does weasel no longer have recharge as a good attribute?) The incremental changes are definitely not a bad idea, just a slow process. Patience... soon maybe the shark will be perfect. Then maybe Spider/Leviathan will get incremental recharge increases? Remember, this isn't a Shark topic, it's a Ships topic. Edited May 7, 2008 by Sharpflame
Editing posts on a proxy screws up the text...

[Syrith]

Shark does cost the most to initially purchase, so why shouldn't it have better stats?

[Suicide_Run]

Indeed sharp, this aint a shark topic. Anyways, I dont feel levi really needs a recharge boost.

 

Spider should get one to be on par with how terr works. I feel that spider should be a ship that has ok to nice nrg with ok to nice recharge but they can barely move. While terr gives up nrg for mobility.

[Unix]

Shark does cost the most to initially purchase, so why shouldn't it have better stats?

Either it is or isnt overpowered, make up your mind please.

 

 

Levi is still pretty decently used, it just doesnt have many other purposes other than bombing. The best thing is probably get some items that benefit the levi in other areas, I've heard that rotation seems to be a problem for it, same thing goes with spider.

 

Weasel seems to be fine now, in comparison to the terr, the weasel has better maneuverability by a small margin and higher energy, the thing that it lacks though is the recharge which the terr has. So I think this might eventually lead to more weasels being used in the long run. Shark however is still a beast unless ?shipinfo is wrong.

 

Most underused ships... spider, weasel

Most overused ships... terr, shark

 

Ships that are used in a good amount... levi

 

I left lanc out because sometimes it's used a lot sometimes it needs to be used more. It's a shame that we cant get some good lancs out there, there's little benefit for actually being a lanc. Something like, increased leech money and or increased prox range of leech money.

 

1/2 are fine since those are the beginner ships.

 

3/4 need something because they're either too modular or underused.

 

5/6 are fine now, it'll just take time for people to notice and for the other rushing ship to be balanced out

 

7 needs to gain some benefits, otherwise flag games will rarely ever happen now (maybe a second sig?)

 

8 needs to be nerfed otherwise it's just too popular and overpowered.

[Unix]

Not to mention it sucks centering as op2rules once said in game: All of shark's power has been diverted to basing. I guess people just dont want 1 ship to specialize in 1 thing but they want it to be average at all things.....just like terr.

Thought I'd mention, Wallbomb has been successfully centering and bntying with a shark around 400+ range.

[Syrith]

Not to mention it sucks centering as op2rules once said in game: All of shark's power has been diverted to basing. I guess people just dont want 1 ship to specialize in 1 thing but they want it to be average at all things.....just like terr.

Thought I'd mention, Wallbomb has been successfully centering and bntying with a shark around 400+ range.

 

That's only because almost no one tries to kill him. His btying would be seriously hampered if people hunted him.