Ships

[Syrith]

Ever heard of the saying, know yourself and your enemy?

 

Unix, you should just buy a shark for yourself (I'm sure that you could easily afford it) and use what you learn from playing as a shark to figure out how to beat it.

 

The only reason why sharks leak so often is... pubs are MOSTLY FULL of newbs! It's like when they see a shark, they think that they're swimming in the ocean and think the shark will rip them to shreds (they've watched too many shark horror movies like Jaws?).

 

Unix, watch the basing carefully. If one team happens to fill up with competent players (very few remaining), sharks won't slip past so often.

 

Cloak SLOWS and WEAKENS the shark! That makes it easier to kill if you've got enough experience in the base you're in. All you have to do is be ONE step ahead of the shark. That makes enough of a difference.

[Kilo]

Not to mention other people being too dumb to have x-radar (or create alternative barriers to cloaking like minefields/floodlines) isn't really a problem about sharks.

[Raw-Tard]

Sharks leak way too often, and i do agree that if u remove AD frum sharks it will solve majority of the leaks.

 

Many noobs n hs dont have good enough ships for basing so thier forced to rock a centering ship while n a base. its the best they can do, even though they die within a matter of seconds fruma ttaching to lanc. but even w/o new players (to hs) sharks will remain a pain till this zones death.

[Unix]

Not to mention other people being too dumb to have x-radar (or create alternative barriers to cloaking like minefields/floodlines) isn't really a problem about sharks.

Xradar causes you to lose a lot of recharge. It hurts you more than anything.

 

Mines cause TK, it's not like before where defense can setup and stay in the same position for a while, defenders always move back, meaning reps will occur to push us and the friendly mines causing a TK. And I dont think a few mines are going to stop a shark with reps either. Let's not also forget that mines take time to setup, and by the time you're done setting up, not only are the sharks most likely to kill you since you're weakened, but also you're probably being pushed back now.

[Matrim Cauthon]

also people use alot of fields now, and fields cause ur team's mines to explode when a teammate touch it

[Kilo]

No one's making you keep X-radar on all of the time. No one's making you stand near your mine fields. Let's not forget that if a shark repels a minefield he decloaks and then you can flood the corridor.

 

MC: you mean when you touch it.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Kilo

[Syrith]

Doesn't x-radar take LESS energy than cloak+stealth? Plus, cloak+stealth lowers energy, along with maxspeed/maxthrust and rotation. Sharks can't get system op so they're at quite a disadvantage if they use cloak.

 

Place mines strategically (if you can figure out how to do that) and sharks won't be a big problem concerning leaks.

 

Also, if you can't convince Arnk that sharks are too tough, he won't change it.

[Unix]

Anyone who's based against sharks knows this.

 

1) Sharks are powerful rushers, a newb can rush with them and still be able to push

2) Sharks with cloak are even better

 

Placing mines strategically wont matter, they're still a TK threat because of splash damage, the benefits they can give are completely outweighed by the potential cons.

 

As for cloak/stealth decreasing stats, one recharge/energy doesnt make a huge difference, and that "max" decrease doesnt matter from the normal movement, only when you use shift.

 

Idk if Xradar takes more or less recharge away from a ship, either way though, the xradar drain is worse than the shark cloak/stealth drain. To simply put it, the xradar user is in a marathon, the shark user is in a sprint.

[Syrith]

Anyone who's based against sharks knows this.

 

1) Sharks are powerful rushers, a newb can rush with them and still be able to push

 

Maybe that's just your opinion since you don't know how to stop all the newb sharks.

Technically ANY ship can push with a newb at the handles.

 

2) Sharks with cloak are even better

 

No, sharks without cloak are better. Plus, cloaking is cowardly.

 

Placing mines strategically wont matter, they're still a TK threat because of splash damage, the benefits they can give are completely outweighed by the potential cons.

 

Note the word 'strategically'.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Syrith

[9vgnc3eZ01]

The Shark's recharge is the main problem here. It just recovers its HP too fast. We need to simply knock down that horrid rate and replace it with something more suitable. A max rate in the range of 1600-1900 is still elite in the small ship field yet more reasonable. The complaints will keep on coming if its a bit TOO tough like it is right now.

 

Or, I suggest another way: simply nerf its minimum recharge. There's almost no point to getting much recharge on a shark right now, because its initial is just *way up there*. Notice how the WB must get a recharge of +10 just to reach the Shark's minimum. Thats right, a Shark's MINIMUM recharge is equal to the Warbird's MAXIMUM and with both having comparable health ranges. When you see this, one should realize that you don't really need the recharge, and could just put it on energy. But if you keep its maximum recharge the same yet reduce how awesome its minimum rate is, it does help balance out the stats.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Relos

[Unix]

Anyone who's based against sharks knows this.

 

1) Sharks are powerful rushers, a newb can rush with them and still be able to push

 

Maybe that's just your opinion since you don't know how to stop all the newb sharks.

Technically ANY ship can push with a newb at the handles.

 

2) Sharks with cloak are even better

 

No, sharks without cloak are better. Plus, cloaking is cowardly.

 

Placing mines strategically wont matter, they're still a TK threat because of splash damage, the benefits they can give are completely outweighed by the potential cons.

 

Note the word 'strategically'.

Shark speed = Even though repped, they can still go back even faster and rep you backwards some more. Other ships cant recover their speed as well, not only that, but their profile allows them to do things larger rushing ships cant. A newb can handle a shark a lot better than a terr or wzl.

 

Sharks use cloak all the time, just because it's cowardly doesnt mean anything, take a look at how people use their warbird in center sometimes.

 

Doesnt matter, I mean realistically, how can you place them without being tk'd by them? Just for an example... You place them wide apart and the lanc is for in the back, sure the lanc will live, but you know what, when your team backs up, and the mines are detonated via rep or because enemy rushes passed, you will also die. Rep = You also get pushed with the mine, the mine hits the wall, you're nearby, you are weakend

 

Enemy rushes by, hits a mine, you're nearby, you get weakened, and let's not forget, the key to a good rush isnt just to get by and kill lanc, but to cause the enemy defense to weaken so the rest of your team can move up.

 

Relos, I think it's more than just recharge, it's just the combination of recharge/antideath/maneuverability/size

[Suicide_Run]

You need at least 4k exp and 25k just to buy a shark. That means the player who has it arent really "newbs" anymore, they are just average players. By the time they hit that point, im sure at least they got some kind of experience in rushing.

 

Its not like the previous rigged ships where 1 of them can push by an entire team. Sure a shark can slip p!@#$%^&* your team with enough skill/luck but its not like your whole team has to go chase after it. Besides, if the attacking freq can use sharks, why cant the defending freq do it and slip through to hit/kill attacking freq's lanc?

 

You guys are forgetting one main thing: Sharks are meant to slip p!@#$%^&* you...why else give them small profile and ability to cloak? If you want a ship that can kill a ton by bursting like a !@#$%^&*, get one that can get the extra mount for it.

 

Just because more people decided to rush with a ship that has less cost than the others doesnt mean you need to whack it till its disabled.

 

And for all those lancs that are afraid of tiny little sharks......For Crying Out Loud, Get A Ficking Point Defense. Thats what they are here for.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Suicide_Run

[Unix]

Just because you have exp/money doesnt mean you're not a newb.

 

One shark can push an entire team and do it extremely well. You only need a very little amount of skill or luck to p!@#$%^&* by with a shark. The defending team using sharks = kills lanc, only one or two players are like that in a shark, not only that, defenders tend to not kill lanc because the attackers will give up.

 

Yeah, they are supposed to "try" and get passed, but they're not supposed to succeed and do it that easily.

 

Point defense is a waste of a sig, and is poor against sharks since sharks can just move out of the way or just rep.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

Earlier today there was some basing going on. Two teams, one was vastly overpowering the team because of ships alone. The one team had a good mix of everything except a shark. The other team had WB/Jav.

 

Two three sharks went on their team, they were able to take over base in about 15 mins when before they could barely get into base.

 

It's more than just "skill" or "luck", these players had overpowered ships which allowed them to easily byp!@#$%^&* the defenders, which were NOT newbs, and they were taking flags two at a time until all flags were lost and they took over base. Afterwards, the defenders who lost the base attacked and in one clean swoop took over the base.

 

It's not about skill or anything when it comes to shark, it's about the ship being too much to handle in a base.

[Syrith]

Just because you have exp/money doesnt mean you're not a newb.

 

Unix

 

One shark can push an entire team and do it extremely well. You only need a very little amount of skill or luck to p!@#$%^&* by with a shark. The defending team using sharks = kills lanc, only one or two players are like that in a shark, not only that, defenders tend to not kill lanc because the attackers will give up.

 

Yeah, they are supposed to "try" and get passed, but they're not supposed to succeed and do it that easily.

 

Prove it, you've got very little skill, let's see you rush successfully with shark.

 

 

It's not about skill or anything when it comes to shark, it's about the ship being too much to handle in a base.

 

It's not too much to handle. It's quite easy to deal with sharks, you just need to know how (of course, I'm not revealing how because I don't want others to have an advantage).

[Unix]

If you honestly dont think I have any skill, well I guess they're your opinion..

 

I've seen people with similar skill as myself and seen them upgrade their rushing ability vastly with the ship alone.

 

I dont need to prove that shark rushing can be done, we've seen anyone who goes into a shark and equips it to rush and they're easily able to improve their rushing by a large margin.

 

I havent seen you be able to stop sharks. I have found a way, just take care of the enemy lanc, problem solved.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Comparison between a shark and a warbird.

 

WB is obviously more maneuverable, but not by a whole lot. The shark compensates all of its slight inferiorities to warbird in maneuverability by having a smaller profile, higher energy and MUCH larger recharge stat.

 

Comparison between a shark and a jav.

 

The only thing Jav outperforms shark in is speed and thrust. Thrust there's not a huge difference, and the speed factor isnt "that" important. A shark is better with energy, recharge, rotation, and just incase you didnt know, shark minimum recharge is greater than jav max recharge.

 

Comparison between shark and terr/weasel.

 

The ONLY thing, and I mean the ONLY thing is energy. True enough energy is important in a base, but that massive recharge that shark has makes up for that energy, especially when the shark can dodge because of it's superior maneuverability plus it's smaller profile.

[vetta64]

Sharks can easily be held back if you rep when they try to rush. The problem is that most ppl dont even bother to use reps for that so theyre able to slip right by.

 

Moral of the story is that sharks are not too overpowered, but that people dont know how to counteract them or are simply not doing it because they either dumb or btying.

[Unix]

Sharks also rep causing the two forces to be pushed back

 

Sharks can move up closer and rep again, but you also rep back, but you start back further than in the beginning

 

Not everyone on your team has that many reps

 

Shark advances/moves enemy

 

Shark has AD

 

Repeats the above steps or uses a coffin/brick

 

Common fact, sharks can recover from enemy reps better than any other ship.

[Matrim Cauthon]

lol yeah thats funny, my levi rusher gets between 2 sharks, and i become a pinball, being repped back and forth until i die^

[Unix]

Cloak SLOWS and WEAKENS the shark! That makes it easier to kill if you've got enough experience in the base you're in. All you have to do is be ONE step ahead of the shark. That makes enough of a difference.

It might weaken the shark some, but you can just pick up a power strip and it's back to normal.

 

It doesnt slow down the shark, it only effects the shark's afterburners. "MAX" speed and thrust means afterburners, not normal speed of the ship.

 

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

[Syrith]

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

 

Just wait until I make my spider rusher, then you'll be complaining about how overpowered it is.

[Unix]

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

 

Just wait until I make my spider rusher, then you'll be complaining about how overpowered it is.

Yeah go for it. I can tell you this though, it'll suck compared to the shark.

 

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

 

Just wait until I make my spider rusher, then you'll be complaining about how overpowered it is.

Yeah go for it. I can tell you this though, it'll suck compared to the shark.

[Syrith]

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

 

Just wait until I make my spider rusher, then you'll be complaining about how overpowered it is.

Yeah go for it. I can tell you this though, it'll suck compared to the shark.

 

The sharks is still vastly superior to any other rusher.

 

Just wait until I make my spider rusher, then you'll be complaining about how overpowered it is.

Yeah go for it. I can tell you this though, it'll suck compared to the shark.

 

Haha, when my spider is complete, it'll be able to rape any sharks (along with everything else). Nice double quote.

[Masaru]

Ha, spider rusher. With that ship being so large and hard to control (low thrust and rotation), I doubt it would be as great of a rusher as you hope it to be

 

I agree that something needs to be done about the shark. Lowering recharge would be one of the more favorable 'nerfs' I would propose. Perhaps less thrust/speed ? Either way, with stats that high and a profile that small, lacking signature items is not a concern for this ship.

[Matrim Cauthon]

oh rly? lets see...ur spider rusher either have to choose between nrg and rotation, or 3rd burst and super low rot. Also the point of a shark rusher and spider rusher are different, spider is to break nme frontal defense so your team can move forward, the point of shark is to slip past nme and kill lanc. Ill congradulate you if u make a better rush spider than my rush levi. I'd say a recharge nerf since the recharge for shark is so fast that in an 8 vs 8 base match, or in center, it recharges whatever nrg it lost before anymore dmg is taken(maybe to max of 1900?)and y do i get a feeling that shark's nrg increased since reset?(i have a screen with my esper+power shark with 1420 nrg and no cloak, now the sharks have like 1500+ nrg with the same things? i think...) Edited April 30, 2008 by Matrim Cauthon

[Sharpflame]

Shark's recharge is too high. Let's not play with the Num pad while entering recharge settings, please.

 

Also, I think Spider/Levi deserve a tad bit higher recharge. And why isn't overthruster on either ship? Boo.

 

When something gets done to the Shark, either energy or recharge should be cut. They both are just as effective.