Zone Population

[Deathmonger]

People are blaming "ammo" as the catch-all scapegoat for a lot of other issues.

 

1. Income generation is 3-5x slower. Ammo is probably about 20% of that.

2. The amount of ship customization you can do is actually LESS, short of sig items, because the upgrade range was tightened. You can't make a fast or quick wb anymore without 50k items, just a blah one.

3. The terrier has the best stats in the game. Why fly anything else?

4. Recharge was nerfed everywhere (except terr), and gun E costs reduced, which has ironically encouraged gun spamming tactics. It also handicaps base attackers.

 

And so on...

 

Net result is a lot of the tactical variety in HS has been weakened or eliminated. Now it's just skating around center in your terr spamming plasma or beam netting $3-5k/hr after ammo. That gets old quick, so everyone left. It would be great if a major balancing effort were put into the new setts to make the zone fun and challenging again.

[Sass]

Thanks for the quote Brain. Kudos on your reply.

[gfd]

Other zones have also experienced this same phenomena which Brain believes he can magically avoid. Whomever designed the ammo system probably doesn't care about his population - or has made decisions based on inexperience while riding the good times. Perhaps some new coding can improve the ammo system, but as several people have mentioned, ammo is designed for 1st person and CTF style zones - not flagging, despite what the ammo creators believe.

 

I had this discussion with you in game, and while I've given up on you ever understanding where I'm coming from, I'm going to quote you and reply in an effort to help others understand my position. A counter reply is not necessary.

 

I have never had zone population as an indicator of success. I don't care about population beyond the fact that it's easier to balance settings with more people online. If I feel a change is necessary (as in the case of basing with item spam) I will make that change regardless of how my current player base feels about it. I'm not making the zone for the player base of the month, I'm making it for me. I'm making a zone I would enjoy to play. If you don't like it, feel free to move on like the hundreds of players before you.

 

I did the exact same thing two or three years ago, when I completely redid all the settings. The zone population dropped to 1/3, but those that stayed liked it a lot more, and eventually we grew to a larger pop than before. People were screaming at me that I'd killed the zone, as they are now (actually, truth be told, fewer people have been complaining this time around).

 

Being supreme dictator means that I have to accept all the blame for decision that has been detrimental. On the other hand, it also means I get credit for bringing the zone to this point. If there was population to kill, it means I somehow managed to get population. If I've done it in the past, you'll have to trust my judgment to get it back.

 

I don't have any desire to alienate people, but when it's a choice between population and gameplay, I'll choose gameplay every time.

 

well said. I will stick out the change and see if i like it more after I finally get some money

[Arry]

well said. I will stick out the change and see if i like it more after I finally get some money

 

I'll second that. Just want to bring a little positive encouragement to this panicfest.

[Dr. Snyder]

As someone who has quit HS as a result of this change I would like to add that its not just the changes in gameplay that drove me away. Perhaps the biggest problem was my realization that the zone was being run by people who had no beef with changing good settings at their whim, and would disregard their player base.

HS doesn't want me so I decided to go back to Trenches. I don't think Brain even views people quitting as a problem, so people can quit all they want as long as brain knows hes still in control of the zone.

I would also like to add that Subspace is aging and to attempt to weed out some of a loyal player base to attract new players is unsound logic. I don't imagine this zone is going to die, but I don't think it deserves the loyalty most of you give to it. How much long until they change something you really enjoy?

Edited February 27, 2008 by Dr. Snyder

[Unix]

Can we increase pub team limits to like 30v30?

 

20v20 is a tad too small

[»Ceiu]

As someone who has quit HS as a result of this change I would like to add that its not just the changes in gameplay that drove me away. Perhaps the biggest problem was my realization that the zone was being run by people who had no beef with changing good settings at their whim, and would disregard their player base.

HS doesn't want me so I decided to go back to Trenches. I don't think Brain even views people quitting as a problem, so people can quit all they want as long as brain knows hes still in control of the zone.

I would also like to add that Subspace is aging and to attempt to weed out some of a loyal player base to attract new players is unsound logic. I don't imagine this zone is going to die, but I don't think it deserves the loyalty most of you give to it. How much long until they change something you really enjoy?

 

Wow... way to make everything about you.

 

Have you ever stopped to think about all the changes you liked meant someone else was equally pissed off about it? There are some people who actually like the new settings and once they start getting a bit more balanced, I'm sure a lot more will as well.

 

Brain has vocalized his view of the public several times; you seem to not matter... and for good reason too. Think about it: Less than a week ago people were ranting about how fun the makeshift game "thor wars" was, because it was just m!@#$%^&* death. Clearly if Brain jumped at that idea like most other re!@#$%^&* zone ops I've seen in the past, he'd have to undo his work as soon as everyone gets sick of it and realizes how bat!@#$%^&* insane the concept is. Basically: The population doesn't know what they want.

[Dr. Snyder]

A) I was simply adding my reasons why I left the zone and your attack on my post further displays how there is a divide between those running the zone and those most loyal to playing it

 

I completely understand that many players don't know what they want, but the zone had grown quite rapidly in from the time I had first played to the time I had quit. No other zone of significance has managed to pull off this kind of growth. It seems to me that the solutions to the growing pains have been far larger than the real problems this zone faced.

 

C) This zone may never return to the way it was, but I felt I owed the zone an explanation to what I thought was wrong with it. Despite the fact that Cerium may not be capable of handling criticism to the zone he serves, I had some hope and still do that someone in a position of power will put their ego aside and consider the real effects this has to the zone.

 

I trust some of you will respond with attacks and insults and thats fine I understand thats how some people are. But for those who see my post as something that transcends personal grudges and unmerited attacks, I hope they can consider the future of the zone.

 

I'm sure these changes were well intentioned and the logic for keeping them has some soundness behind it, but I believe my logic has just as much merit and deserves more than just lip service.

 

Thanks for paying attention,

 

Snyder

[rootbear75]

As someone who has quit HS as a result of this change I would like to add that its not just the changes in gameplay that drove me away. Perhaps the biggest problem was my realization that the zone was being run by people who had no beef with changing good settings at their whim, and would disregard their player base.

HS doesn't want me so I decided to go back to Trenches. I don't think Brain even views people quitting as a problem, so people can quit all they want as long as brain knows hes still in control of the zone.

I would also like to add that Subspace is aging and to attempt to weed out some of a loyal player base to attract new players is unsound logic. I don't imagine this zone is going to die, but I don't think it deserves the loyalty most of you give to it. How much long until they change something you really enjoy?

like cerium said, i'm pretty sure that brain has made it clear that he doesnt care what the players want. This is for him. If the players hate it, well then dont play. (at least thats my understanding from his statements)

Edited February 27, 2008 by rootbear75

[»Ceiu]

A) I was simply adding my reasons why I left the zone and your attack on my post further displays how there is a divide between those running the zone and those most loyal to playing it

 

You seem to be confused here. I've no problems with you as a player, but you do need to see that basically you're stating reasons why you left and attributing them to a false statement about everybody leaving. I'm just pointing this out in a very non-subtle way.

 

I completely understand that many players don't know what they want, but the zone had grown quite rapidly in from the time I had first played to the time I had quit. No other zone of significance has managed to pull off this kind of growth. It seems to me that the solutions to the growing pains have been far larger than the real problems this zone faced.

 

Either that, or the fans we had were those who enjoy their completely unbalanced settings (ex: people who like OHK zones or super zones).

 

C) This zone may never return to the way it was, but I felt I owed the zone an explanation to what I thought was wrong with it. Despite the fact that Cerium may not be capable of handling criticism to the zone he serves, I had some hope and still do that someone in a position of power will put their ego aside and consider the real effects this has to the zone.

 

Why is it that whenever I point out someone's asinine statements, it somehow is turned around into me being a HS zealot?

 

Let me make something perfectly clear: My "allegiance" to HS is strictly due to the fact I get along with the developers, but it ends there. Brain, Arnk and D1 will all tell you how I've had several disagreements with them on how things are run, designed, etc. That said, just because I'm telling you or anyone else to stop being stupid doesn't mean I'm defending any issues with the zone. Currently, I think there are a few things that need to be fixed with the settings, but declaring "HS sucks now, I quit" is incredibly stupid and short-sighted.

 

!@#$%^&*, even CP is starting to turn around and enjoy the settings... and he made this !@#$%^&*ed thread.

 

 

I trust some of you will respond with attacks and insults and thats fine I understand thats how some people are. But for those who see my post as something that transcends personal grudges and unmerited attacks, I hope they can consider the future of the zone.

 

You'll only get "attacked" when you make dumb comments on the zone's public forum where an excess of stupidity can effectively deface a zone. If you have a problem, bring it up in a civilized fashion that doesn't amount to "zone sucks now! Change it or I quit".

 

 

I'm sure these changes were well intentioned and the logic for keeping them has some soundness behind it, but I believe my logic has just as much merit and deserves more than just lip service.

 

Thanks for paying attention,

 

Snyder

 

What logic? You've not stated anything specific as to what is wrong. You've just stated that "yeah, I played since forever, now I quit because it sux! rawr!"

 

If you've got something you don't like and possibly even a suggestion to fix it, by all means post it. But blindly quitting over something so minor... that's just childish.

[OrangeeoZ]

Zone Population: Why is it declining?

 

Simple..

The more you reset the money and exp, the more people quits

 

Ex.

 

Vets = reset = retire

Pros = reset = plays a bit less

Normal noobs = reset = plays more to become pros

Noobs = Gets owned = leaves

First timer = no one helps them = leaves and spread to everyone

 

Quoted from book:

 

Ripple Effects happens when upset customers tell other people.

 

"Studies show that an upset customer/player tells an average between 10 and 20 people about an unhappy experience. Some people will tell many more" (Timm,

 

Ex.

Mrs. Williams = 1 person

tells 11 others = +11 people

who tells 5 each = +55 people

Total who heard = 67 people

 

All 67 of these people are going to rebel against HyperSpace.

 

Work Cited:

 

Timm R. Paul. Customer Service: Career Success Through Customer Loyalty. New Jersey: Upper Saddle River, 2008.

 

 

GO TO SCHOOL!!!!!

[OrangeeoZ]

QUOTED FROM BOOK!! THE BOOK CAN'T LIE!!!

 

CP.. STOP MAKING ME LOG IN IN SS FORUMS!!!!

[»D1st0rt]

I don't know why a reset would cause someone to retire, right after a reset is the most fun time to play

[Suicide_Run]

I don't know why a reset would cause someone to retire, right after a reset is the most fun time to play

Some players dont feel like spending alot/moderate amount of time to get back their ships that they lost from reset.

[»D1st0rt]

Building your ship is the point of the zone though

[Choose Profile]

lol at you peoples

 

Personally I dont really have a problem with the ammo system itself, its a cool idea and unique to the zone. My problem is the reasoning as to why it was implemented, according to Brain (IE "to stop players from bountying in bases). Gun/bomb ammo usage is fine, but I have a much bigger problem with repels and bursts being consumables. Not because it really effects me, but because during large pub games, the defensive team is way too stacked in terms of money and spending because the attacking team is put at a severe disadvantage because of the consumable system. I don't feel like going too indepth with this idea, but I have in previous posts in this thread so you can find my thoughts there. Also I feel thors are becoming a large problem, and the lack of repel usage only increases the issue with thors.

 

Also, I think resets are the most fun time during the zone, because everyone is on an even playing field for at least a short while.

 

Fortunately since I have started this thread the population size has increased a bit.

[JoWie]

I would rather play in a zone/game with a lot of change and variety then in a zone that is afraid of making changes because of its player base.

[rootbear75]

I would rather play in a zone/game with a lot of change and variety then in a zone that is afraid of making changes because of its player base.

why? past experience has shown that when a zone nerfs or changes settings cause of one specific flaw, people leave, because even though they whine, it was part of the game.

 

people are always going to find one bad thing about the game, but thats the beauty... the worst game of all is a completely balanced one (imo)

cause in a completely balanced game, it becomes too hard to kill someone, and anytime you kill someone, it becomes a fluke

if you kill someone in a power ship while you are an underpowered ship, that shows skill...

[Dr Brain]

Historically, resets boost population by about 20%.

[Mgs]

I like the ammo system and the new items. But hs could do with out the mounts. I think its a good idea that a person has to keep on buying there items instead of keeping there money. Although i do think it is killing the pop. But sharp might be right that the 30+ people forgot to update there zones list.

[Unix]

Mounts limit the ship items that you can have - Without mounts, ships can have all items, which wouldnt be cool

 

I would rather get rid of ammo than mounts, mounts are at least a necessity