Why the ammo system is a huge step backwards

[Lie]

The new ammo system is really just a maintenance system. But instead of adding to the fun of the zone, it adds to the tedious and repe!@#$%^&*iveness of the least enjoyable part.

 

When you buy a new car and get all the cool gadgets for it, even if you're a wrench-head, the fun is in actually DRIVING the car. Not in filling it up with gas.

 

We want to be out killing people, not worrying about whether our guns and bombs are going to run out. When they do, having to go back to safe could make us lose any bounty we might have.

 

Instead of making the game about skill and enjoyment, the ammo system implements the Microsoft mentality of dealing with things. Instead of giving you a system that will run great and never have to worry about fixes, they give you a system that is flawed and will break down. Then, when it breaks down they want you to pay for the upgrades and fixes so you can continue to use their product. It's built to fail, just like your ammo.

 

Instead of any benefit, the ammo system can ONLY give you a negative effect. The more ammo you buy, the more you can stay outside safe and fire your guns into the air like a train robber. Woopdee doo. That's the MOST benefit you get from having more ammo than the guy next to you. The negative effect is drastic, on the other hand, and is annoying at best.

 

This game (Subspace/Continuum) was designed to take something away from you every time you fired your weapon. There was no limited supply of it though. No real cost to get it back. Simply wait some time and you'd be good to go again. Energy determines whether you live or die in this game, and the use of it is how you learn to strategize and play. Adding the worry of ammo is a nuisance and takes away from the fun of the game.

 

The fun of customization and buying comes from picking how your ship will run. Not whether it will work the way you set it up or not in 30 shots from now.

 

So, I implore you to take a look at the ammo system and find a better way to make Hyperspace fun, not repe!@#$%^&*ive and annoying.

 

-Lie/Surprise/Owl

[s-abbas]

I second that.

[Suicide_Run]

Kudos to you Owl for posting something that actually has thoughts/reason behind it instead of those "I dont like it therefore, you should change it" posts.

[kid]

guns take energy for a reason

[Matrim Cauthon]

We want to be out killing people, not worrying about whether our guns and bombs are going to run out. When they do, having to go back to safe could make us lose any bounty we might have.

Its not likely to lose bty if u dont use the center safe, plus the addition of ammo makes people who usually spam endless bullets just to get a lame kill or 2 to rethink their tactics

 

Instead of making the game about skill and enjoyment, the ammo system implements the Microsoft mentality of dealing with things. Instead of giving you a system that will run great and never have to worry about fixes, they give you a system that is flawed and will break down. Then, when it breaks down they want you to pay for the upgrades and fixes so you can continue to use their product. It's built to fail, just like your ammo.

Everythings built that way, what gun needs no ammo? what car needs no gas and replacements? what system will not have upgrades and fixes?

 

Instead of any benefit, the ammo system can ONLY give you a negative effect. The more ammo you buy, the more you can stay outside safe and fire your guns into the air like a train robber. Woopdee doo. That's the MOST benefit you get from having more ammo than the guy next to you. The negative effect is drastic, on the other hand, and is annoying at best.

you dont need more ammo than other people to have benefits, u just need to learn to aim, with the amount of ammo u can carry, u can go atleast 500 or more bty without even thinking about rebuying ammo, and most people dont even last that long. How much time does it take to

press a macro that says ?buy -c 9 gun ammo everytime u die? like 1/2 a second?

This game (Subspace/Continuum) was designed to take something away from you every time you fired your weapon. There was no limited supply of it though. No real cost to get it back. Simply wait some time and you'd be good to go again. Energy determines whether you live or die in this game, and the use of it is how you learn to strategize and play. Adding the worry of ammo is a nuisance and takes away from the fun of the game.

In hs, u can easily fire most of the guns without any significant nrg loss, so conserving nrg was not a major part of the game, firing more shots/hitting first is more important

 

The fun of customization and buying comes from picking how your ship will run. Not whether it will work the way you set it up or not in 30 shots from now.

10k+ gun ammo divided by like 5 ammo(pulse=common gun)...way more than 30 shots

 

So, I implore you to take a look at the ammo system and find a better way to make Hyperspace fun, not repe!@#$%^&*ive.

All things are repe!@#$%^&*ive, just like the fact ur turning on ur computer everyday.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Matrim Cauthon

[Tarnith]

I totally agree Owl, Subspace is about strategy in using energy, which is why I love it... having ammo gets rid of a lot of that strategy. This could go either good or bad, depending on what further changes are made. Arnk Dylie is apparently changing things (hopefully for the better) You said what I mean better than I could, and I thank you. =)

[Kilo]

I like the logic that by adding ammo usage, suddenly energy usage doesn't matter a lot.

[Suicide_Run]

We seriously need to take a break and stop making multiply topics saying the same thing. Give it a break and wait abit. !@#$%^&*, it hasnt even been a week and 50% of the items available havent been brought yet.

 

Something I do find needs to be changed is that G-Battery/B-Battery (Capacity slot items that lets you hold more ammo) should have a small drop in price or exp requirement? That way...maybe people will stfu about them running out of ammo so fast. Or have a mini-G/B-Battery that is much cheaper/lower exp and only allows you to get 2 more ammo slots?

[Dr Brain]

I'd like to compliment owl for making a well articulated topic about how he feels. We're in the process of introducing some ammo-less guns, and ways to make ammo less annoying.

 

The general idea behind ammo is to stop bountying in the bases. You can't sit there spamming bullets/bombs on a bombline, hoping to make a random kill. If our next solution doesn't fix the bountying in center (but I think it will), we'll probably take out the safeties in the ammo depots.

[cow888]

Thanks to Owl for not being just another whiner and to Dr. Brain for elaborating what effects ammo was intended to have (now we can offer more constructive feedback).

I don't really have any problem with eliminating bountying in bases or making it more difficult in the center - anything that promotes survival of the skilled is fine with me. As long as you check your ammo stock upon respawning, bountying is just about the only thing the ammunition would interfere with.

[elricward]

The general idea behind ammo is to stop bountying in the bases. You can't sit there spamming bullets/bombs on a bombline, hoping to make a random kill. If our next solution doesn't fix the bountying in center (but I think it will), we'll probably take out the safeties in the ammo depots.

 

 

I'm holding off on deciding whether or not it's worked for me until after people have enough $$ to actually have bought thors/reps etc. to make a decent basing game. At this point however it's done exactly the opposite. Basing and centering has both become far more of a "spam" fest then it used to be. Spamming bullets/bombs on a bombline has only increased and now there isn't really nearly as effective a way to deal with that as there used to be. Which just encourages both sides to sit and spam the bullets until someone on the other end is foolish enough to wander into the spam line.

 

The reasons spam weasels were employed so often previously was because it's almost impossible to attack a base properly without having a ship that can get past the spam line and inflict some damage. Something to help break up the stalemate, and even with a force of spam weasels I've seen base games go on for an hour or better with the attacking team still not making up the ground.

 

As of right now, basing isn't even fun...it's a ridiculous chore to attack, and boring to the point of tears on defense.

 

The center is just a wave of L1/L2 bullets...spamming from what I can see is at an all time high. Honestly it's far more annoying now than it ever was in my opinion.

 

If the idea was just to put a time/money sink into the game to get people to play longer, I can appreciate that. It's a proven tactic that works wonders on MMORPGs. If it was to make the game more enjoyable, that remains to be seen and I'm willing to ride it out and see if it ultimately will, at this point however it's only made the zone less entertaining for me. I'm hoping it picks up as people gain more $$

[Suicide_Run]

Bases should be tweaked to fit the current style of flagging. Since when the bases were made, I dont think the maker intended for flagging to be like right now cause hardly anyone is buying any consumable items.

[Jin Marui]

Being new to HS, I came in just in time to get a flechette gun and an HE missile on my WB before the restart. I wasn't happy with having to start over, but the new system doesn't exactly ruin the zone. I haven't played long enough to have anything to say about the bty issues, but i'm sure the mods will make more balancing changes in the future. I just hope I don't have to start over again...

!@#$%^&*o to HS players, by the way.

[Choose Profile]

I'd like to compliment owl for making a well articulated topic about how he feels. We're in the process of introducing some ammo-less guns, and ways to make ammo less annoying.

 

The general idea behind ammo is to stop bountying in the bases. You can't sit there spamming bullets/bombs on a bombline, hoping to make a random kill. If our next solution doesn't fix the bountying in center (but I think it will), we'll probably take out the safeties in the ammo depots.

 

I agree with you on Owl's topic. Although I am not against the ammo system, I feel his post is one of the very few well thought out posts against the system.

 

On the other hand, Brain, I'm not really sure where youre coming from here. As far as I can tell, the only real benefit from the ammo system is to discourage bountiers in bases, by way of bomb line usage, etc. Instead of implementing the ammo system, with all of its inherited negative effects on other aspects of combat, why not just remove bomblines and niches in bases that allow spammers to build bounties.

 

And also, why go through all of this work to alienate base bountiers? What harm are they doing to the zone and community which warrants such action?

 

Blah Blah Blah... just a little confused.

 

But note I dont disagree with the ammo idea, just this line of reasoning, hoping you can clear things up.

[Wild Luck]

Its annoying to have to buy cause you ran out of ammo, i know a levi with tacnuke constantly lining a tube its annoying, but it adds the element of m!@#$%^&* army, some players need to go suicide for the ones that go after them to be able to p!@#$%^&* and that is kind of fun.

 

I was basing today and people just sit and wait, i felt bored and quited. I see more players concentrated on center instead of basing.

 

Anyway my spider has solar energy backup with charges my pulse laser ammo

[DrumBum88]

And also, why go through all of this work to alienate base bountiers? What harm are they doing to the zone and community which warrants such action?

 

yeah why are we eliminating btying in the zone?? it doesnt harm anyone, and it's fun to bty, and it helps people more then hinders. idk i think btying was always a good idea.

[James1293]

On the topic of bountying:

 

1) I agree with the others; bountying doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

 

2) However, if bountying in bases is a problem, perhaps the ammo usage could be increased on bouncing bullets, and decreased on non-bouncing.

 

[scouto2]

I completely agree with you Owl.

 

This new ammo system is just annoying like you said. I can spam and spam and spam bullets and safety kill all i want. I can still just buy more bullets. Its the same thing as it used to be, only more annoying. you can hold 10 bullet slots, so with 10k bullets each thats 100k bullets. If a gun even took 100 to shoot, i can still shoot about 1,000 times before running out. I have noticed that safety killing is at an extreme because of this. You have to now get more money to get anything.

 

They have nerfed the money system. You now get much less money from kills, but things cost slightly less. Its gone from about 100 from a kill to about 20, but items have only dropped in price by 5-6k. so, 10k-5k is a 50% cut in price, as opposed to an % nerf of money. I really did not mind safety killers before the new ammo system. Everyone safety kills when they start out since a warbird or jav cannot base. Ever seen a spider try to safety lame? NO! And when you get a good ship set up in about 1-2 weeks of playing (Casually), they dont matter at all any more. Unless they gang on you, they are never a problem.

 

I do though, really like the new ITEM system. The fact you need to buy mounts is good, and i love the new set of beginner items, but i HATE the ammo system

[Suicide_Run]

Scouto2, plz get your facts right. Each Gun Ammo Pack = 1200 gun ammo. Meaning a total of 12k gun ammo without buying G-Battery (Allows 5 Extra Gun Ammo Pack)

 

Ammo system mainly affects bounty-ers IN base, not in center. You can still Safe Lame....when you get lotta exp and get high lvl bomb with prox. Just sit near an ammo depot and lame =p

[»Ceiu]

As someone who's better than every other player in this thread, I'd like to take this moment to point a few things out:

 

1) For everyone who's crying about ammo, I've not seen a single person make an effort to... you know... NOT SUCK. Try aiming and not wasting ammo -- you tend not to notice the fact you're limited so much. Newsflash: You don't need to spray an entire sector with bullets/bombs to kill someone... despite what you've come to think.

 

2) It pisses me off to no end that when a minor (yes, minor) feature is implemented that requires players to improve a bit, the solution is instead to fall back to even less-skilled and far more lame tactics. "Oh noes! My spamming tendencies need to be toned down a bit! I better safe lame now!" ...peh. I certainly hope this isn't a habit that carries over into teh real lifes.

 

3) As some people have seen from my in-zone version of this rant: I personally believe ammo should be more expensive and/or harder to come by. My suggestion was to make ammo cost increase exponentially as your exp increases (or as the value of your ship increases), thus making it cost more as your ship gets better. The only thing stopping it is technical limitations of the existing item system. You guys should be grateful.

 

 

I don't give a !@#$%^&* how condescending I sound with this post. I started about 24 hours after everyone else and solo'd my way to my first 10k and I earned another 15k shortly after with a pub team. Making money is not difficult and the ammo system is not a step backwards -- you just suck. Period.

 

Now, if you want to whine about something, whine about the fact that none of you give experience. Oh wait, that's because you all suck... my bad.

[BlueWyvern]

?|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo|buy gun ammo

?|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo|buy bomb ammo

 

Oh god, it was so hard to make that macro...

 

As for the "cost"

Every kill you guys make averages about 50. Gun ammo costs 100. 2 Kills doesn't take 1000 shots (if it does, please refer to Cerium's post above)

 

I support the ammo change just because it's new and different which makes me forget about the horrors of HS before the reset.

[Kilo]

?buy -c 9 gun ammo is even better for macros

[scouto2]

i still hate it.

[Sass]

Cerium, I'm afraid that you're venting simply because you may have spent some time helping to implement the ammo system or you know how much coding went into the idea. Regardless, if you actually believe that you are all that, please sit down because that notion is just laughable. Most vets in ss can play at least as well as you and most would shred you without even trying. Kindly put your ego in check before posting.

 

As for the ammo system, I think the idea of ammo is good, but not for HS. HS is generally a flagging zone and ammo is best suited for a sniper like zone such as Bak's paintball where the original idea came from or perhaps an elim arena.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Sass

[»Ceiu]

...

 

First of all, I did absolutely no work on the ammo system. The extent of my participation in the creation of the new item set was that I helped test a few items. As I said before, had I been directly involved it would likely be a lot most costly to waste ammo.

 

Secondly, I do believe I am "all that" (and a bag of chips! lulz!) because, well... I am. If you think you can find a vet who can "shred me without trying", feel free to let me know. Further, next time you want to bring out the dreaded v-word, make sure you do some background checks; I've been playing this game since the incarnation of the weasel, which makes me one of the afore mentioned vets. [side note: Being a vet isn't a valid subs!@#$%^&*ute for skill. I know plenty of "vets" who suck donkey balls. Likewise, I know lots of new players who are pretty !@#$%^&* good. ?usage is not an indicator of skill.]

 

Finally, while I am fully capable of backing up my internet asteroids spaceship skillz, the goal of my post was simply to open the eyes of the idiots !@#$%^&*ing about the ammo system. These "newbs" have had it too easy in HS and I grow tired of watching them !@#$%^&* and moan anytime anything new is implemented if it requires them to learn skills that are ingrained into the psyche of any SVS player (cue "this is not SVS" retort...). However, if I happen to piss off retired players as well, then that's cool too.