Runwinning

[Guest Moose Master]

People are abusing the zone by run-winning. This is happening often and it's always by the same few people. Over the past few weeks I've seen Revulsion run-win so many times I decided to do something about it. Today I logged on and almost the first thing I see is him fleeing around the map with all the flags. Attached is a screenshot showing the conversation at the time and his abusive manner towards me.

 

I also have a 3 minute 45 second video of the Continuum game window proving that he runs away without fighting the second you turn up on his radar. In the video I chase him and then spec him and throughout it he is running without fighting. Unfortunately the video is too large to attach and I do not know of any quick file host for it but if anyone wants to see the video I can send it to them via an instant messenger, IRC(DCC) or something else.

 

Runwinning

 

Runwinning, currently, is defined as using TW more than three times to evade capture. However this is not good enough. In the video you can clearly see that Revulsion makes no attempt to fight or use any skill relevant to the game. He simply runs away, and this technique is impossible to counter unless you have a faster - more expensive - ship.

 

These 'lame' tactics detract from the game and only harm Hyperspace. Why don't people understand that? Despite Revulsion's arrogance and apparent hatred for me I have nothing against him. He's abusing a rule to get a lot of money while the zone isn't very full and this means he can have a better ship than everyone else during peak times.

 

Suggestion

 

Make runwinning of any kind be punishable, not bannable (unless excessive), but punishable through fines. In my opinion it should be defined as so:

 

"Runwinning - A frequency gathering all flags and staying in motion outside of a single base for the majority of the flag timer"

 

This covers freqs of any size doing it.

This covers frequencies being wrongly accused of runwinning as the condition is that they are in motion outside of a base for most of the flag timer.

 

This is not limited to any particular kind of transport, simply the fact that they are running away without fighting. There is always a base available for people to use for flag games so there is no excuse for not taking one.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Moose Master

[Guest Moose Master]

I expected idiots to reply with posts that don't make sense. Thank you NeoGolem for your valuable input...

 

I'm not interested in "Well if you save for X then you can go catch them. Don't be lazy" or crap excuses like that. The point of the flagging system is to have at least two teams with at least one base fighting it out for jackpots

[Dr Brain]

Hypertunnel running is extremely easy to stop. That's why it's not illegal. A few mines in a good spot is all it takes.

 

TW running is also fairly easy to stop these days, so it probably shouldn't be illegal either, but I'll leave that to the mods.

[Suicide_Run]

You sure love to use the word "abuse" dont you moose?

People are abusing the zone by run-winning.

How can you...abuse the zone by run winning?

..his abusive manner towards me.

Right....abusive manner...only thing that maybe considered bad was saying you were "re!@#$%^&*ed". Dont know why you even highlighted the first 2 sentence he said.

He's abusing a rule to get a lot of money while the zone isn't very full and this means he can have a better ship than everyone else during peak times.

Exactly...what rule is he abusing? You yourself didn't even say he used TW more than three times and even in the SS, he said he didn't use TW.

I expected idiots to reply with posts that don't make sense.

I have a feeling you dont understand their posts, seeing how your understanding of the word: Abuse is so...er...good?

 

As brain has said, HT running was always not illegal. Any ship that can lay mines has a chance of kill the run winner. Any specialty mining item has even more chance. If he doesnt use TW, its even easier to kill him. Get a team mate if you cant do it alone. If there arent alot of ppl in zone, it means the jp is gonna be lower. And if the jp is high..then there is alot of ppl, it usually means a ton of players will go after him as well.

 

Btw, I gotta congratz you on your efforts....even going far as recording a video

[cow888]

LOLDELETEDPOSTS?

 

We all know how much of an... "expert" I am on these matters, so here's my input:

WTFPWNT

I do have some problems with runwinning, namely Transwarp, Interdimensional Drives, Lancasters, and bricks:

Transwarp can be used just about anywhere (Yes, I know it can't be used in bases or the hypertunnels.) with no energy cost, no energy requirement, and no antiwarp limitations. The only way to defeat someone using Transwarp - especially if they have a P!@#$%^&* - is to spectate them until around the last ten seconds of the timer, then use Transwarp to follow them, and if they use it again to follow them through fast enough to see which base the go to. And they have a portal set, then you have to know its position so you can Transwarp to that, too... or mine it somehow. If you're a few seconds too slow, you'll probably be eating repels and gunfire just a few pixels away from the flags until LOLWIN.

WTFPWNT

 

According to the current Interdimensional Drives' failure percentage charts, flaggers can use them at above ninety percent energy with a zero percent chance of failure... and, to the best of my knowledge, there's no way to follow them through. As long as they can reach the center arena (I'm not sure about using the Drives in the hypertunnels... I've never owned a set), they can travel to any sector of the map.

 

A runwinning duo with a Lancaster is, if possible, even more annoying - you have to constantly be aware of the Lancaster's position, which can change at any time, and you must assume that the flagger has a portal set (hopefully you know where it is) and has enough money to use Transwarp as well.

CLARIFICATION: this is extremely annoying, but there's no realistic way to regulate it, and you can't really call using your ships to their best advantage abusive.

 

Maybe I shouldn't reveal this secret, but a brick can be a very effective tool to defend your dropped flags - particularly in a base! And it may or may not be possible to completely surround them with a Cage...

 

Fun times.

Edited December 16, 2007 by KIRBACHEV

[Sharpflame]

Hypertunnel running is extremely easy to stop. That's why it's not illegal. A few mines in a good spot is all it takes.

 

TW running is also fairly easy to stop these days, so it probably shouldn't be illegal either, but I'll leave that to the mods.

 

Antimatter mines can easily accomplish those two...

 

I mined around the safe zone in the TW because somebody had about 12 flags and I saw them going through the TW many many times... once I popped the mines there then they appeared, the prox make the flags be dropped around the safe, I took them, and exited the TW...

[Suicide_Run]

Kirbachev, Im pretty sure you cant use ID/Jump when you have flags.

[Aceflyer]

The only way to defeat someone using Transwarp - especially if they have a P!@#$%^&* - is to spectate them until around the last ten seconds of the timer, then use Transwarp to follow them, and if they use it again to follow them through fast enough to see which base the go to. And they have a portal set, then you have to know its position so you can Transwarp to that, too... or mine it somehow. If you're a few seconds too slow, you'll probably be eating repels and gunfire just a few pixels away from the flags until LOLWIN.

 

It's fairly easy to stop someone using TW extensively to runwin. Here are a few sample strategies:

• Lay a mine with prox near the safe in the TW Hub. Antimatter Mines, EMP Shockwave, TacNuke, Harpy Missile, and Cerium's Revenge can all be used to accomplish this easily. As soon as the runner ?tw's into the Hub, the prox mine will detonate and the runner's flags will drop, at which point you can grab them.
  
• Get a Spider with Pulse Laser and Mezon Capacitor and simply wait in the TW Hub spamming bullets at the safe. As soon as the runner ?tw's into the Hub, a few bullets will hit his ship and runner's flags will drop, at which point you can grab them.
  
• The above strategy could also be used with almost any ship with Beam Array.
  
• Get Point Defense on a ship, and park it near the Hub's safe. As soon as the runner ?tw's into the Hub, the PD will shoot at the runner and the runner's flags will drop, at which point you can grab them.
  

According to the current Interdimensional Drives' failure percentage charts, flaggers can use them at above ninety percent energy with a zero percent chance of failure... and, to the best of my knowledge, there's no way to follow them through. As long as they can reach the center arena (I'm not sure about using the Drives in the hypertunnels... I've never owned a set), they can travel to any sector of the map.

 

You can engage ID Drives while in the hypertunnels. You cannot engage ID Drives with flags. If you have even one flag, you will be unable to ?id.

 

Kirbachev, Im pretty sure you cant use ID/Jump when you have flags.

 

You can actually use ?jump when you have flags, but that isn't very useful, because Jump Engines really don't facilitate running.

[cow888]

LOLREMOVEDFORLENGTH

Yeah, I forgot about the taking damage while in safe with flags thing... now I feel like an idiot. Even more than usual, that is.

 

And I wasn't aware the ID Drives couldn't/can't be used with flags - the last I heard on that subject was that engine failure is to discourage ID with flags.

[Dr Brain]

If by discourage you mean completely nuke, yeah.

[DaRuler]

Runwinning is fun. Especially with tw now. Won a 50k and 30k a couple nights ago yay. If no one is basing it's fun to chase people around. I don't see this as abuse, I see this as pure jealousy

[Pity.]

Runwinning is fun. Especially with tw now. Won a 50k and 30k a couple nights ago yay. If no one is basing it's fun to chase people around. I don't see this as abuse, I see this as pure jealousy

 

Yet, a couple days ago you were !@#$%^&*ing about how runwinning is lame?

 

Can I ask why you chose it to be legal? I just don't see it being anything but a really lame way to runwin. If you want to warp at last second to win you can set a port, which is harder when being chased than to type ?tw and you win a flag game. It's like once someone has all flags and not in a base they win automatically if they have a decently quick ship. I'm just wondering why there can't be an engine failure if you use tw with flags.

 

And to Moose, stop whining. Like others have said, runwining isn't hard to stop at all. Also it's not expensive to have a quick ship. Don't go start whining when you're the one that didn't win that jp. Im sure if you killed him, you would have runwin'd too. Also, late at night, when there is only aounrd 4-5 people playing, It's impossible to start a flag game, and If you took all the effort to find all 20flags you should be able to win it whatever you like.

[aquarius]

Runwinning is fine, considering the advanced technologies invested into our ship hulls, in HS, theres nowhere to run.

[DaRuler]

Pity. You really need to get off my balls. I was saying the flags in TW is making runwinning very lame. However, I'm a fan of runwinning and always have been and will be. If you noticed in that thread I referred to runwinning with portals and just said that the TW makes it extremely easy/lame. I never once said I think runwinning should be illegal. And since Brain has said runwinning with the TW is legal and doesn't plan on changing it, I will embrace that. Man, you need to live and let live kid.

[Guest Moose Master]

You sure love to use the word "abuse" dont you moose?

People are abusing the zone by run-winning.

How can you...abuse the zone by run winning?

..his abusive manner towards me.

Right....abusive manner...only thing that maybe considered bad was saying you were "re!@#$%^&*ed". Dont know why you even highlighted the first 2 sentence he said.

He's abusing a rule to get a lot of money while the zone isn't very full and this means he can have a better ship than everyone else during peak times.

Exactly...what rule is he abusing? You yourself didn't even say he used TW more than three times and even in the SS, he said he didn't use TW.

I expected idiots to reply with posts that don't make sense.

I have a feeling you dont understand their posts, seeing how your understanding of the word: Abuse is so...er...good?

 

Suicide_Run:

 

Abusing - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abusing

Abusive - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abusive

Abuse - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abuse (This one is just for your reference)

 

My repeated use of the word is not only correct; It was also deliberate.

 

If Dr.Brain, as the owner, says it's OK to do this then fine. That's the ruling but my opinion is that the zone would be better if some attention was paid to the little things like run-winning, pub freqs and exp.

[Sharpflame]

... would be better if some attention was paid to the little things ...

 

Yes, because the little stuff is more important then the big stuff. Especially when the little stuff is just a fake problem, like runwinning.

[Dr Brain]

I don't see how you can say we're not paying attention to it. After all, antimatter mines were added, and the walls were removed from the transwarp hub. We're just not paying attention to it in the way that you want.

 

You really don't need to be snappy about it, but since you are, here's my retort: Your suggestion is completely unworkable. For every suggestion post there are three more about how mods are either not doing their job or are doing it wrong. What you propose is another rule for them to not enforce or enforce badly. It also wouldn't help in the off hours. I just looked at your screen shot, and I may be wrong, but it doesn't look like there were even moderators online.

 

I think your posts "would be better if some attention was paid to the little things", like courtesy to your fellow players and spelling my name correctly. Especially the courtesy bit.

[Suicide_Run]

Yes Moose, those links to definitions of words proves alot. Like how people can magically abuse a zone and how a player can abuse a rule that doesnt exist.

 

All your asking is for staff to waste time on a problem that players alone can solve just because some player(s) cant do it themselves.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Suicide_Run