SeVeR Posted November 11, 2007 Report Posted November 11, 2007 It's just the idea of dressing modestly as a whole that they are trying to follow. Know wat I mean? I know exactly what you mean, the fact you've repeated it means you don't know what i mean. Christian women dress modestly because of the Bible trend to prohibit showing flesh, jewellry, elaborate hair etc. Where else do you think the idea of dressing modestly comes from? The word "modestly" is even in the bible quote (Timothy). TONS of verses in the bibles sayign that a loyal wife is worth more to a man than things like gold. So its not entirely putting them down, it shows how valuable a woman is to a man Which gives the impression that women are possessions.
AstroProdigy Posted November 11, 2007 Report Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Edited November 11, 2007 by AstroProdigy
Bak Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 so the old testiment is part of the koran too
SeVeR Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 I think Astro's post makes things clear.
AstroProdigy Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 so the old testiment is part of the koran too What I quoted from is the New Testament.
WongKonPow Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Edited November 12, 2007 by WongKonPow
Aceflyer Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 I do note that in the quote, 'long hair' is considered an adequate head 'covering' for women. Most women have long hair anyway. From the quote, I do not see any clause mandating that women must only be allowed to show their faces and hands in public.
AstroProdigy Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Edited November 12, 2007 by AstroProdigy
WongKonPow Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 on the contrary, I am very comfortable with homosexuals themselves, i just disagree with their lifestyle. I do not hate them, they are people as we all are. One person should never hate another.
AstroProdigy Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 Why do you disagree with their lifestyle again?
Bak Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 cause according to his belief system it's wrong/sinful?
Aceflyer Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 Aceflyer:It's the same concept which is that a woman needs to cover her head as if there's something wrong with her versus a man being just fine. This could easily be used in very sexist ways, just like different parts of Islam. The only difference is we in western societies (not so much America) reject such hateful parts of Christianity and choose secularism whereas most of the Muslim world hasn't come to that point yet. Oh, you're quite right. I just thought I'd point out that little factoid out in case anyone missed it and decided to claim the Bible required women to wear garments analogous to burqas.
WongKonPow Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 cause according to his belief system it's wrong/sinful? yea pretty much. But think about what you are doing, Astro and many others like you. You have seen/heard that the majority of Christians hate homosexuals. Then you jump to the conclusion that all Christians are close-minded bigots, !@#$%^&*-bent on being ignorant. Doing that makes you just as close-minded as the annoying Christians who you dislike. I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, I don't hate them, I just disagree with them.Yes, a lot of African-Americans are gangsters, that does not mean that all black people are gangsters. The majority of rapists and pedophiles(some of whom reside in the church, which is horrible) are Caucasian males, that does not mean that all white guys are rapists and pedophiles. In the same way, not all Christians are close-minded bigots. Christians are always accused of being close-minded and ignorant, but many of the people who say this are just as close-minded to what Christians have to say.This will be my last post in here, because this is probably the twentieth discussion I have had about this kind of thing on a forum. They always go in a circle, arguments are repeated numerous times, and it goes nowhere.
Bak Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 you're right wong, ignorance happens on both sides.
SeVeR Posted November 12, 2007 Report Posted November 12, 2007 You have seen/heard that the majority of Christians hate homosexuals. Then you jump to the conclusion that all Christians are close-minded bigots, !@#$%^&*-bent on being ignorant. No, we jump to the conclusion that Christianity is a religion that can be the cause of homophobic at!@#$%^&*udes among it's followers. A conclusion we're right to jump to. Nothing about what i've just said means i think all Christians are homophobes.
AstroProdigy Posted November 13, 2007 Report Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) "I don't hate the Jews I just disagree with their lifestyle. According to my belief system they killed Jesus and, therefore, I think they should convert to a Christian lifestyle. I don't hate them, though." In what world does that make fly anymore? Since you believe homosexuality is a choice instead of something your born with I can't make the parallel between hating other races without you making that argument. Judaism is a choice, however, just as much as homosexuality could ever be so there you go. Edited November 13, 2007 by AstroProdigy
Bak Posted November 14, 2007 Report Posted November 14, 2007 it'd make sense if killing jesus was a lifestyle. it's the same way that you can love your parents but disagree with some of their choices.
ThunderJam Posted November 14, 2007 Author Report Posted November 14, 2007 You can dislike a belief without disliking the people tha tbelieve it. Because are person is homosexual I do not hate/dislike that person. I don't agree with their orientation, but I may still get along with the person. You act like if we disagree with homosexuality, we have to hate all homosexuals...
AstroProdigy Posted November 14, 2007 Report Posted November 14, 2007 "Just because I think Judaism is immoral doesn't mean I think Jews are immoral". Again you think who they are is evil in either case and people hate people they think are evil. Do you hate murderers? How about child molesters? Stop trying to masquerade your hatred for a group of people based solely on preconceived bigotry that you use a few lines in the bible to justify as legitimate. The same !@#$%^&* was used to justify slavery and later the Jim Crow laws. Same !@#$%^&*, different target.
NBVegita Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 Jumping in at the middle, so I'm just addressing thunders comment: I completely agree. I dislike the beliefs and belief system of Christianity, but I do not dislike Christians as a whole, or a person simply for being Christian. Well put Thunder.
SeVeR Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 You people with your all or nothing arguments... I would say that religions teaching their followers to disagree with a belief, would be the cause of at least some of their followers hating the people that hold that belief. I never said all Christians are homophobes, yet you seem to be telling me what i've said and believe. You're not going to succeed in creating an opponent as flawed as you are.
NBVegita Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 But you're jumping to the conclusion that simply because you disagree with a belief, that inherently causes ( in some people) a hatred of people who follow that belief. I would say that it ultimately would not be the religion, not including the redical cases where a select few radical churches actually tell you to hate all non-Christians, but moreso on each singular person for "hating" homosexuals. Hate is such a strong word to begin with, but simply telling you that homosexuality is immoral and or wrong is not enough to drive someone to hate homosexuals. I know many a man who cannot stand homosexuals, or as you would put it, many a man who hates homosexuals, with no religious background. And people with a strong religious background who can simply accept that it is an alternate lifestyle. Homosexuality is such a high charged issue in our society, with many people embracing and hating it all at once. Yet ironically the Christian church teaches that it is also immoral and wrong to have premarital relations, but you don't see christians "hating" people who do. I don't often defend Catholicism, but in this case I simply don't agree that the church is spreading hate for homosexuals by simply disagreeing with their lifestyle. I know you will always find radical examples where people do hate homosexuals simply because of the church, but that is a rarity.
JDS Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 At most, Christians are usualy taught to respect everyone , yea num1 in 10 commandments .. so No, Hating of someone else has 0 relevance to An actual religion. But at the same time if you are a specific believer and you do 'hate' someone, it has nothing to do with a religion , but perhaps the hate comes from persons personal beliefs that have been passed down through generations and thus now !@#$%^&*ociated with his religion If anything , its pleasing to know World wide Acceptance is becoming more and more popular... Humans are probably just too primitive to understand loving everyone, i guess we still need enemy's... but soon i hope we can move out of this era of hate and disregard and evolve another step
SeVeR Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 The church isn't spreading hate, it's simply making it easier for people to hate by their own accord. The church by definition is corrupt. Humans can believe or disbelieve God as they see fit, but the church and any person of religious authority will take some small slice of the reverence reserved for God by the believer. Whether the church wants to be held up as an intermediary to God is irrelevent. The nature of religion makes it unavoidable as believers for the most part are followers. If the church disagrees with the homosexual lifestyle then the wholly unreligious, but un-repressable urge of any human is to ask why. I can theorise the thought process goes something like this: 1. The church disagrees with the homosexual life-style. Why?2. Because the Bible says it's unnatural. Why?3. Because God doesn't like homosexuals. Why?4. Because he hates them? Can we believe this?5. Well God is wrathful and destroyed all the people in Sodom and Gamorra.6. I guess I could interpret the Bible in a way where God hates homosexuals. And thus, for some, the Bible gives every reason to hate homosexuals. I'm not going to tell you the Bible is the only reason, and i believe there are varying degrees of influence that religion takes. Some may have parents who dislike homosexuals (whatever their reasons may be....), but undoubtedly religion can be a cause and/or a justification for hatred towards homosexuals. Christians are taught to respect everyone, and they side-step that teaching in the same way they side-step the questions of existence, by having faith. If they believe they're not har!@#$%^&*ing and disrespecting non-believers by posting leaflets through doors that warn of "eternal !@#$%^&*ation", then that makes it ok. If they believe they're not destroying a culture in South America or Indonesia by bringing them Bibles and instilling a religion that brings about centuries of witch-hunts and executions for sorcery, then that makes it ok. If they believe they're not doing anything wrong by preaching within schools, then that makes it ok. Respect, except in cases of ignorance or divine permission.
ThunderJam Posted November 15, 2007 Author Report Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) 1. The church disagrees with the homosexual life-style. Why?2. Because the Bible says it's unnatural. Why?3. Because God doesn't like homosexuals. Why?4. Because he hates them? Can we believe this?5. Well God is wrathful and destroyed all the people in Sodom and Gamorra.6. I guess I could interpret the Bible in a way where God hates homosexuals.Incorrect. Because the bible says its unnatural, BECAUSE GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMEN TO REFLECT HIMSELF IN DIFFERENT WAYS SO THAT THEY ARE MEANT TO TOGETHER REFLECT THE IMAGE OF GOD. Designed to complement each other, to hand in hand represent the best of humanity and god. You jump from Because its unnatural, to God hates homos. Also yea the church is gonna be corrupt. Anything man made will be. However consider that when most people refer to "The Church" their talking about catholics. I don't mean to say Catholics as people are corrupt, but they have a large organized structure, and in such structure is where there is larger opportunity for corruption. Since many other branches don't have one unified organization they fall under, they don't have as big a opportunity to even be corrupt. Edited November 15, 2007 by NBVegita Removed double post - NBV
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