Why Athiests Should be Kicked Out of America

[PullTripSquid]

Where did God come from. I don't think your precious bible says that and if you say "he just was" then you're just using the argument you're bashing people for using supposedly for how the compounds required for life were created

^^

 

K, read what i say please. This was my whole point, that if you science buffs believe that the elements that created life were just "there" then how can you think its so foolish for us to believe that God was just there in the beginning, i wasn't bashing anyone, READ....it helps.

 

Yeah and forgive me for not being Thunder, Sorry for not being open minded enough to DENOUNCE my faith, most people actually believe in their religion though, thats what this whole argument was about. peace.

Edited September 26, 2007 by PullTripSquid

[rootbear75]

because something had to have made God... he cant just "exist"

 

otherwise we can use the same arguement that the elements just "existed"

[Drake7707]

Why do we believe so much in religion, when only the Western world before (contact with other civilizations since) 1500 had a concept of religion? Will God judge us based on our religion at our time of death?

 

Because it has become something someone can hold on to whenever they are in deep !@#$%^&*. They keep themselves optimistic with their faith. In that way religion is as important to anyone as a best friend you can hold on to, and it's only natural to defend that because people attacking it would mean you'd lose your hold-on-to thing, again, comparable to a friend.

 

Otherwise, most people that don't understand something are eagerly saying it was God that did it, or made it or whatevered it. Well it might satisfy themselves, please, don't bother anyone else with it, it's annoying as !@#$%^&* (and this creates the anti-religious thing anyway).

 

 

Btw people that don't care if god exists or not, like me, are not really atheists are they ?

[JDS]

nah you are an athiest

 

a person who cares if god exists is agnostic

[SeVeR]

I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't care whether God exists and are agnostic. The point is, caring has nothing to do with it. It's what you believe (or don't believe) that defines your belief system... to state the obvious. If you believe completely that God doesn't exist then you are an atheist, if you don't believe there is sufficient evidence to believe one way or the other then you are agnostic.

[ThunderJam]

Yeah and forgive me for not being Thunder, Sorry for not being open minded enough to DENOUNCE my faith, most people actually believe in their religion though, thats what this whole argument was about. peace.

1) Pulltrip i am no where near denouncing my faith. Im some spots of my argument I am starting from "ground zero" !@#$%^&*uming parts of our faith are wrong, and then working up towards proving them FOR THE SAKE OF THE ARGUMENT. If these people don't believe our faith, im trying to work an argument in a way that does not use our faith as the explanation.

 

2) just stop posting, my two posts on the previous page were completely lost once you began posting again, most these people aren't listening to you, if anything your detracting from my and aileron's arguments, which are arguing the same thing as you, but more effectively. Don't ruin it.

 

That was mean

 

ANWAYS GO BACK AND READ MY TWO LONG POSTS ON THE BOTTOM OF LAST PAGE IF YOU DIDN'T READ THEM ALREADY.

Edited September 26, 2007 by ThunderJam

[NBVegita]

Thunder I'd like you to show me where Hinduism, for example, the oldest known religion, next to maybe paganisms, or Jainism, or Buddhism are proven inaccurate in their accountings.

 

Also simply because the people and or places in the bible may have existed does not mean that the events that occured actually happened. In fact most religions don't deny the man Jesus Christ existed, but many of them believe, as I do, that he was very similar to Muhammed, that he was simply a prophet.

 

Also I couldn't get into my old college library account as I don't have access anymore, but I still implore you to investigate that further.

[JDS]

did any of you watch zeigtguist (sp..)

 

pretty sure they explained the relationship of sungod of egypt to jesus, to all other gods around that time, christianity is pretty much plagerized from other religions yet you go spouting it off as truth

 

i dont get it

[rootbear75]

christianity is pretty much plagerized from other religions

more so judaism than anything else..

[PullTripSquid]

Yeah and forgive me for not being Thunder, Sorry for not being open minded enough to DENOUNCE my faith, most people actually believe in their religion though, thats what this whole argument was about. peace.

1) Pulltrip i am no where near denouncing my faith. Im some spots of my argument I am starting from "ground zero" !@#$%^&*uming parts of our faith are wrong, and then working up towards proving them FOR THE SAKE OF THE ARGUMENT. If these people don't believe our faith, im trying to work an argument in a way that does not use our faith as the explanation.

 

2) just stop posting, my two posts on the previous page were completely lost once you began posting again, most these people aren't listening to you, if anything your detracting from my and aileron's arguments, which are arguing the same thing as you, but more effectively. Don't ruin it.

 

1) In no way was i talking to you when i said that thunder, i was responding to

Oh please.. Aileron and ThunderJam actually argue their points effectively, while you, Pull, come in here and just make the pseudo-argument that wherever science cannot currently explain something, BAM, God magicked it.

That comment is asking me to give up some of my beliefs to come down to everyones level, thats what i meant by "denounce" my faith. Sorry for the misunderstanding, i find your posts very interesting and think its amazing how you are defending the word of God in a very logical way for everyone to understand. Forgive me for not being clear on that.

 

2) No, sorry i won't stop posting, thats not very fair,

[rootbear75]

actually it is

i usually stop posting past the point where i dont care, or where i cant add anything else

[ThunderJam]

christianity is pretty much plagerized from other religions

more so judaism than anything else..

Thank you captain obvious? Christianity comes from Judaism. The first christians were jews who recognized Jesus as the messiah that Jewish prohecies foretold of. Hence the begining of our old testament is the same as the jewish scriptures. Because the rest of the jews did not recognize Jesus as the savior, the ones who believed in Jesus broke away creating their own sect that is now Christianity.

Edited September 26, 2007 by ThunderJam

[JDS]

its really more so Egyptian ... and even older than that

 

sun = god / jesus / (all the other names)

 

constilations = 12 = deciples

 

we are in the age of piecies = 2 fish = jesus fed people w/ 2 fish

 

we just left the age of the bull or cow = Moses coming down from the mountain with the 'new law' and seeing his people worship the cow he commanded them to kill off this old ritual and move into the new one

 

 

jesus> i will be with you until the end of the world (world being misstranslated as Aeon or Age)

the age of the pieces ^ meaning somthing else will happen when we move into the astrological age of aquarius..

 

pretty much the bible is more astrological than anything else

[ThunderJam]

its really more so Egyptian ... and even older than that

 

sun = god / jesus / (all the other names)

 

constilations = 12 = deciples

 

we are in the age of piecies = 2 fish = jesus fed people w/ 2 fish

 

we just left the age of the bull or cow = Moses coming down from the mountain with the 'new law' and seeing his people worship the cow he commanded them to kill off this old ritual and move into the new one

 

 

jesus> i will be with you until the end of the world (world being misstranslated as Aeon or Age)

the age of the pieces ^ meaning somthing else will happen when we move into the astrological age of aquarius..

 

pretty much the bible is more astrological than anything else

Wow, what a joke. I don't even think this is worth the effort of me countering. "O you know, well uhm.. zeus was an almighty god, and thats what you think jesus is, so they must be the same.. that means your whole religion is lies."

[JDS]

your whole religion IS lies?

 

 

seriously

 

horus the sun god had an imaculate birth.. so did jesus

 

both born on dec 25

 

both crucified

 

both risen from the dead

 

 

 

 

it has to do with how the sun and stars move

 

as the calander goes , the moves along the horizon and apears less and less until on dec24 it stops moving for 1 day

 

juring this day, the eastern star is at perfect alignment as well as 3 stars of the orion belt or the '3 kings'

 

http://uploadingit.com/files/76608_9it4c/sun.JPG

 

thus it can be said that the 3 kings follow the eastern star to the king

 

 

edit: as well the next day 'the 25' the sun then starts to move upward singling the coming of spring

Edited September 27, 2007 by JDS

[ThunderJam]

its really more so Egyptian ... and even older than that

 

sun = god / jesus / (all the other names)

 

constilations = 12 = deciples

 

we are in the age of piecies = 2 fish = jesus fed people w/ 2 fish

 

we just left the age of the bull or cow = Moses coming down from the mountain with the 'new law' and seeing his people worship the cow he commanded them to kill off this old ritual and move into the new one

 

jesus> i will be with you until the end of the world (world being misstranslated as Aeon or Age)

the age of the pieces ^ meaning somthing else will happen when we move into the astrological age of aquarius..

 

pretty much the bible is more astrological than anything else

So you think the number of disciples, 12, was taken after ancient egypt and the signifcant 12 constellations. You imply that the entire Bible is completely made up. It is historical fact the most of the disciples lived. As it is known that Jesus lived, and that many of the instances in the Bible took place. (What's still debated is the nature of Jesus life, whether he did perform the miracles or not, etc).

 

The two fish is a massive massive stretch as is the end of the age being the end of the age of "piecies." You're trying to make connections where none were meant to be.

 

your whole religion IS lies?

 

seriously

 

horus the sun god had an imaculate birth.. so did jesus

 

both born on dec 25

 

both crucified

 

both risen from the dead

 

it has to do with how the sun and stars move

 

as the calander goes , the moves along the horizon and apears less and less until on dec24 it stops moving for 1 day

 

juring this day, the eastern star is at perfect alignment as well as 3 stars of the orion belt or the '3 kings'

 

http://uploadingit.com/files/76608_9it4c/sun.JPG

 

thus it can be said that the 3 kings follow the eastern star to the king

 

edit: as well the next day 'the 25' the sun then starts to move upward singling the coming of spring

December 25th. Well I believe, though I could be mistaken, that the Ancient Egyptians used a different calendar than us. We are talking ANCIENT, the sun god idea was around from very early in egypts history, we're talking over 4,000 years ago. Furthermore, I don't think Jesus' birth has even been pinpointed to December 25th. Sure an estimate has been made of his birth, but I'm pretty sure December 25th just became the day designated to remember his birth because it falls within the correct seasonal time of the year. I don't think it's exact. Also consider there were prophecies describing Jesus' birth a thousand years before he was actually born, and yes modern dating has confirmed the dates of such writings.

[SeVeR]

There's more ThunderJam:

 

(Luke 22:10)

Disciples: "Jesus, where will the next passover be when you are gone?"

Jesus: "Behold, when ye are entered in the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in"

 

The next astronomical age is Aquarius, the symbol of which is a man holding a pitcher of water.

 

All the references to fish, the act of Moses telling people to stop worshipping the golden calf (the previous astronomical symbol to the fish), and the constant references to the "new age" are in support of the rather obvious bit of evidence i've quoted above.

 

I don't think Jesus' birth has even been pinpointed to December 25th. Sure an estimate has been made of his birth

The point is that the agreed upon date is the 25th of December.

 

The similarities stretch beyond the Egyptian god Horus. Another is the Pagan god Mithra, and another is the Hindu messiah Krishna. The list goes on to at least 16 "saviours", many of which pre-date Jesus, and most of which share the virgin birth, the embodiment of God in man, the birth on the 25th, the 12 disciples, and so on...

Edited September 27, 2007 by SeVeR

[Samapico]

Yeah... some weird stuff... watch zeitgeist

[NBVegita]

What I find ironic about your statement is that our "modern dating" can confirm the dates of prophies from multiple millenia ago, but can't come close to dating the birth of Christ?

 

Something sounds fishy about that...

[ThunderJam]

Nothing fishy, manuscripts and scrolls can be physically dated. What physical remains do you have frmo Jesus' birth to date? Plus they do have the year of his birth pinned down to within several years.

[PullTripSquid]

[LiDDiS]

Is it stressful? Living life in fear for your very soul that is. And the bible is true because it says it's true? From what I understand the bible is laced with historical and metaphorical truths. But not absolute literal truth.

 

And you're right about history. We have no way of knowing what really is true about some things. Time has skewed many facts and besides building a d'lorean time machine we may never know the exact truth of historical events, but you can piece together evidence and make a pretty good !@#$%^&*umption of history.

Edited September 27, 2007 by LiDDiS

[PullTripSquid]

Is it stressful? Living life in fear for your very soul that is. And the bible is true because it says it's true? From what I understand the bible is laced with historical and metaphorical truths. But not absolute literal truth.

 

And you're right about history. We have no way of knowing what really is true about some things. Time has skewed many facts and besides building a d'lorean time machine we may never know the exact truth of historical events, but you can piece together evidence and make a pretty good !@#$%^&*umption of history.

 

Lol, no man, in fact being a Christian is very peaceful and relaxing, i no longer fear death as much, and I know where I am going. Not to mention the church I go to is full of people who love me unconditionally. Just as the Bible says "Rejoice Always". You are right about many passages in the Bible being Symbolic, this is why there any many denominations, but all you need to be saved is to acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for your sins and then give your life to him. All true Christians believe in this fact that is all in the Bible, In symbolic and literal ways.

 

Yes, i am right about history. And any evidence you piece together you are trusting that the source is true. In fact it takes faith to believe in anything that you cannot or have not verified by yourself in person. So why is it that everyone looks at me so odd-like when i say i believe in the Bible 100%? We may never know right.

[NBVegita]

I still call your god petty.

 

Petty that certain men born onto this plane have no path to "salvation". Say a man is born in the amazon. He never hears of the religion called christianity. What if he instead stumbles upon a buddhist priest, and becomes so enamoured that he is a buddhist convert. What if he never has a religion because he never learns of one? What happens to him then? He is automatically !@#$%^&*ed because his path did not cross with a christian? It would be impossible for this man to find Jesus, and according to you the only way to heaven is through Jesus. How about the billions of people in countries that never have the chance to learn of your religion, what of them?

 

 

I'm still awaiting an answer for what happens to the people, according to your religion, who never know/have the opportunity to learn about the christian faith. Being that less than 1/3 of the global population is christian, that means that over 2/3 of the world is !@#$%^&*ed?

 

Someone stated that prior to jesus the Jews could get in via good works. Well !@#$%^&* what about the billions of people prior to jesus that were not jews? Were they all automatically !@#$%^&*ed at birth?

[all_shall_perish]

This is what the majority of you must do:

 

1.) Do some research on the contemporary philosophical definition of knowledge and realize you know nothing. Then realize that everything you think you know is really an !@#$%^&*umption that holds true in most cases.

 

2.) Take this realization and apply it to the very abstracted idea of most religions. Then realize that you still know nothing, and that all of those words in all of those books (which were written by man in the first place) are still !@#$%^&*umptions.

 

3.) Go to your local library and get your hands on a decent sized dictionary (the 200 lb Webster on the podium will do fine). Look up the words "atheist" and "agnostic" and realize that you've been using them entirely incorrectly and sometimes contradicting yourself (but mostly just looking like a misinformed fool: ie "The Atheist religion").

 

4.) Stop caring about what other people believe. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind about anyone's belief. You don't believe in something for anyone else but yourself so keep it personal. To call anyone else wrong about topics you know nothing about (ie. higher beings) is pure insanity.

 

EDIT: Oh by the way, that newspaper article is a fake, the source doesn't exist.

Edited September 27, 2007 by all_shall_perish