is copying of arenas allowed?

[PsyOps]

?go battle- Alpha (took me years to work it all out)

 

then the copy

?go battle - Chaos

 

Underlord is saying that it is nothing like my arena. And that it was created without knowing that there was one up in alpha.

 

 

but somehow it has the same name.

 

 

anyhow this is the second time i had to deal with chaos stealing something.

Last time they stole tiles i had used for alpha. I have everything backed up so there was no denying it.

All i had to do last time was politely as hallu and he took them down. Underlord doesn't seem like he is going budge.

[Russky]

People will rip your events off its the only way there aren't many new events to make so whatever you thought was original in your zone was probably in a zone older than your before, unless the map is exactly the same... then there is nothing :\

[Hoch]

One zone cannot copy another zone's map and/or settings

!@#$%^&*ociated with that map. Mind you, it is more or less a

gentleman's agreement, but it is widely observed.

 

Without playing in either arenas, I can say that the layouts

are not the same. There are some similar features, but I

do not think it is enough to say that the Chaos map of ?go

battle is a copy of Alpha's ?go battle.

 

If your original position is not amenable, then ask Bargeld

to get involved. But again, without having played in either

one I would say that they are not the same.

 

 

-Hoch

[Russky]

One zone cannot copy another zone's map and/or settings

!@#$%^&*ociated with that map. Mind you, it is more or less a

gentleman's agreement, but it is widely observed.

 

Without playing in either arenas, I can say that the layouts

are not the same. There are some similar features, but I

do not think it is enough to say that the Chaos map of ?go

battle is a copy of Alpha's ?go battle.

 

If your original position is not amenable, then ask Bargeld

to get involved. But again, without having played in either

one I would say that they are not the same.

 

 

-Hoch

 

Basically it's a respect thing... you can ask him to give you credit for the map or something, but I am sure more than one zone have that concept already!

[PsyOps]

ok thnx appreciate the help. Underlord is no gentleman so i guess i have my answer.

 

And although it may seem unoriginal and simple it is far from it.

Underlord will soon find out.

 

That arena is a mix of the unknown tileset in continuum and a monster bot written by Mystery Meat.

 

If he wants to copy without giving due credit so be it. But im ganna laugh at its failure. Took me a year to get that map right.

I just figured that everyone within the sscouncil and sscx had an agreement that this type of behavior wasn't allowed.

[Sneakerz]

I'm not really going to argue any of this, I'm just going to point one or two things out....

 

1) The maps are nothing alike

2) Your bot hosts Turretwars???

3) DZ is a zone within Chaos, which is owned by Underlord, which, if I am not mistaken, by your own arguement, would mean any dueling arena is actually being stolen from him. (DZ merged into Chaos, just to clarify that)

4) I believe UL also brought up concerns about your bots looking like copies of his bots....

 

 

That being said, I'm not really on either side in this, aside from being a CZ Sysop, and having my zone slandered

 

 

- Sneakerz

[PoLiX]

MMk... Lets look at this.

 

The Maps

 

Chaos:

 

Alpha:

 

Nope, don't see much similarities there. Also, Alpha is a 975kb map, while Chaos is 178kb.

 

----------------------------

 

The Tiles

 

Chaos:

 

Alpha:

 

Both just standard old vie day public tiles. Maybe some minor modifications in Chaos's, and a lot in Alpha's, but not unique in any way.

 

----------------------------

 

The Settings

 

Now both being standard SVS zones, we won't get into this, seeing as both are just going to be based on their own SVS style anyways.

 

----------------------------

 

The Conclusion

 

Now while the idea may be the same, it looks doubtful any personal work was copied. The 3 key components that decide wheter a zone/arena was stolen (which arenas aren't concerned too much unless it is a copy of a zone's main arena, IE: every zone has an elim or duel arena), show no proof of being copied in a way that action should be taken.

 

Sorry bro.

[Telson]

I've been designing maps for years and i see plenty of similarities. You have to break the map apart and not look at it as a whole.

 

 

Here it is in a crappy jpeg..

 

 

Looks like the sections where copied and pasted, then retiled. I havent see any of the maps in game.

Its just bits and pieces.

 

Chaos used Alpha's map as a template to create theirs and copy and pasted. Is it illegal? probably not, its done all the time.

[Underlord]

Telson,

 

1,2,3,4 are structures from 1995 SVS maps alpha/cz/rz/jackpot. The entire big boxes (1/4 the map) are shrunk versions of our 4v4 league map that has existed long before alpha battle arena. The things you pointed out are actually them copy/pasting parts from our 4v4 map into their arena. See our ?go 4v4squad1 type arenas for reference.

 

5 is 2v2 boxes that belong to DZ/CZ, we've owned them for over half a decade, alpha copied them and even copied our duel arena and 2v2 league. See our ?go 2v2 and ?go duel arenas for reference.

 

All,

 

Their bot's command list is a direct copy/paste of commands from our pre-existing bots.

 

Alpha Bot

 

Alpha Battle B> | Alpha West Battle Bot Type '::!help topic' to get help on a specific topic |

Alpha Battle B> | ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------- |

Alpha Battle B> | Regular Commands | Frequency Owner Commands |

Alpha Battle B> | !next !line !cancel | |

Alpha Battle B> | !stattron !return !sub | !teamsize !numteams !lives !name |

Alpha Battle B> | !freqinfo !boxinfo !time | !yes !no !kick !giveown |

Alpha Battle B> | !layout !driver !nodriver | !ready !ready! !restart !endmatch |

Alpha Battle B> | ------------------------------------+ !notready !time !spam |

Alpha Battle B> | Duel Specific Commands | |

Alpha Battle B> | !rank !history !top | !shipwars !redwars !firstto !normal |

Alpha Battle B> | !bestof | !turretwars !bestof |

Alpha Battle B> | ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------- |

 

CZ Bots

 

Duel-Bot> | Duel Bot Commands |

Duel-Bot> -----------------------------------------------

Duel-Bot> | !next # !stats !top # |

Duel-Bot> | !line # !last ,# !ladder # |

Duel-Bot> | !cancel !formula !spam |

Duel-Bot> | !statbox !history vs |

Duel-Bot> -----------------------------------------------

 

Duel-Bot name Created: 10-8-2002

 

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | Player Commands |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !allowsub !burnme !cancel !cap |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !claim !end !etop # !forcecap |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !freqinfo !game !givecap !kick |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !leaguestats ,# !leaguetop # !norating !pracstats ,# |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !predict !ready !remove !restart |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !results :# !return !sc # !schedule |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !score !showline !spam !standings |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !stats !sub : !time !top # |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> | !unban !helproster !helpprofile !helpstats |

DZ-4v4-Bot-4> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

In conclusion, they copied our 2v2 and Duel boxes and even used exact same command names on their bots, they also copied parts of our 4v4 map and threw it into an alpha box. Their other commands are mostly copy/paste from our pre-existing 1v1/2v2/4v4 bots. If you see the output and functionality it's even more of a copy/paste. The players who made the CZ map do not play alpha, did not know what their battle map looked like or even know what it does. Our tileset is 100% from our decade old 4v4 league. In addition, their arena plays things like turretwars and redwars, while ours is only a functional 4v4, 4v4 two pracs at same time arena. The only similarity is that we share a common duel/battle/elim arena name, which we've used before alpha on/off during the last half decade.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Underlord

[Russky]

Unless you copy the map as a whole, you can not claim someone to rip off this box from that map you have made 2 months before, we all play the same game just relax.

[PsyOps]

try not to make it obvious underlord.

At the very least you could have changed the name of the arena, the one you claimed to have never seen before in alpha.

Edited August 23, 2007 by PsyOps

[PoLiX]

I had an arena in my zone in 2000-01 named Battle (later renamed Battledrome), which was a 5 v 5 squad dueling event, big deal if the name is the same... lol. People think up the same !@#$%^&* all the time, and it happens. You chose a common word name, your fault, not his.

[JDS]

noobs, the map sucks anyway..

[sil]

I had an arena in my zone in 2000-01 named Battle (later renamed Battledrome), which was a 5 v 5 squad dueling event, big deal if the name is the same... lol. People think up the same !@#$%^&* all the time, and it happens. You chose a common word name, your fault, not his.

True, it's not like the name 'battle' is unlikely to appear in a game where you blow people up.

 

Also, Battledrome is a kick!@#$%^&* game. Makes me want to play it again.

 

edit: also again! it's silly to say peopel copied bot commands. a similar event is going to have similar bot commands, regardless of if one is aware of the other. I mean really, there is only so many different ways to do something! And if someone is aware, they may want to use the same/similar format so people are familiar with it.

Edited August 24, 2007 by sil

[X`terrania]

Alpha is a really fun zone. And Chaos seems to be dead now..

[»freakmonger]

Chaos seems to be dead now..

 

I think you have them backwards....Chaos is the 4th/5th most populated zone

[Sass]

I think the original argument has merit and can be qualified by what goes on in the corporate world. People take ideas and simply repackage them and call it theirs. Psyops DOES have a valid claim because their is so much underlying similarities.

 

Unfortunately, there are two ways to handle this. First, Psyops could torment the other zone in attempts to deface and humiliate it for obviously repackaging his ideas. This normally doesn't turn out well for the person doing the badgering as he is seen as an !@#$%^&* by the population. The other alternative is to handle it as has been done - illustrate that there are striking similarities in the copied design and call out the copier. Anyone with integrity would acknowledge that they had copied the design and would try to set the situation right. Seeing as the copier did not do this proves that they have indeed copied the design and repackaged it and that they are not trustworthy individuals. Hopefully the population and staff that works for that person understand this and seek to work under a better team.

 

However, I don't expect that most of the faceless souls in subspace have little more integrity than a box of cracker jax.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Sass

[Russky]

I think the original argument has merit and can be qualified by what goes on in the corporate world. People take ideas and simply repackage them and call it theirs. Psyops DOES have a valid claim because their is so much underlying similarities.

 

Unfortunately, there are two ways to handle this. First, Psyops could torment the other zone in attempts to deface and humiliate it for obviously repackaging his ideas. This normally doesn't turn out well for the person doing the badgering as he is seen as an !@#$%^&* by the population. The other alternative is to handle it as has been done - illustrate that there are striking similarities in the copied design and call out the copier. Anyone with integrity would acknowledge that they had copied the design and would try to set the situation right. Seeing as the copier did not do this proves that they have indeed copied the design and repackaged it and that they are not trustworthy individuals. Hopefully the population and staff that works for that person understand this and seek to work under a better team.

 

However, I don't expect that most of the faceless souls in subspace have little more integrity than a box of cracker jax.

 

Or instead of trying to bury the other person... ask them to put your name in the credits that is what would be best, other things are too much work, and the end result might not be worth the time and effort.

[Sass]

Agreed, that would set the situation right I think.

[PoLiX]

Telson, I know your not an old SVS player, so I won't blame you for not knowing that those exact objects you pointed out, have been standard use obstacles in VIE/SVS/SSS maps for ages now. !@#$%^&*, #3 looks like a modified version of the standard J12 base.

 

So really, none of those features could be called "copied", as I previously stated, they are standard obstacles.

 

Ok... So I can call Psyops out for copying me too than S!@#$%^&*? My Battle arena used a lot of VIE based obstacles, and was in action from 00-01, I still have the map and all probably on CD. It was an SSC zone, so should it not be the same standard? We cannot copy old SSC zones by SSC Rules. His arena is as much like mine, as Chaos's is like his. !@#$%^&*, I even had a modified VB Merv doing the squad duels in mine.

 

The point is, there is tons of zones with similar arenas, similar maps, and !@#$%^&*, even some have the exact same ones, as developers jump around zones, or zones just do it, and neither one cares. I just don't see enough evidence to merit this a copy.

[Sass]

I'd agree that there is a lot of redundancy in ss and this is well known - usually players are quick to call it out. However, your claim to a map from 00-01 is much further out on the dartboard than having a competing zone make something aggressively similar to their compe!@#$%^&*ion. If you'd like Psyops to give you credit, take it up with him - however, I'm doubtful that you care about having your name on the maps as there is no gain. Similarily, I designed the digital jackpot graphic swarming around most dev pop zones and I don't go around asking for credit for it. (someone else designed the code). Alpha zone however stands to lose a little bit of population from Chaos' move and therefore it is of much higher value perhaps than you !@#$%^&*ess.

 

Let's be sure we're comparing apples to apples. And Polix, hopefully you got my AIM last night and can see why this topic is close at heart.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Sass

[»freakmonger]

quick:

 

copying a subarena - nothing can really be done, because it happens all the time. But would be nice to give credit where due, (not due in this case) * ?go duel, ?go 2v2, ?go football, ?go dodgeball are just some major sub arenas that are in several zones.

 

copying a zones theme/main pub - Not allowed. (I think this was by word of mouth, I dont remember seeing any "SSC Rules" laying around the net anywhere). You can't have ?go tw (boy they would have a !@#$%^&*ing cow lol)

 

If not already, maybe council should layout some guidelines? And if they already have some, then we should make them more accessiable.

 

But as for SSCC, I don't allow 'copied' zones (just my rules, doesn't matter if SSC allows it or not). Similar zones maybe, but I have to be able to tell a differance in the settings without looking at the .cfg (i'm talking main pubs/zone theme). This was a problem with one zone not too long ago, I got with both owners and we got the issues corrected.

[Russky]

Or you can always take things to the next level start threats, and attempt to find out where he lives so you can go over and... 'say !@#$%^&*o'!

[Telson]

Telson, I know your not an old SVS player, so I won't blame you for not knowing that those exact objects you pointed out, have been standard use obstacles in VIE/SVS/SSS maps for ages now. !@#$%^&*, #3 looks like a modified version of the standard J12 base.

 

So really, none of those features could be called "copied", as I previously stated, they are standard obstacles.

 

Ok... So I can call Psyops out for copying me too than S!@#$%^&*? My Battle arena used a lot of VIE based obstacles, and was in action from 00-01, I still have the map and all probably on CD. It was an SSC zone, so should it not be the same standard? We cannot copy old SSC zones by SSC Rules. His arena is as much like mine, as Chaos's is like his. !@#$%^&*, I even had a modified VB Merv doing the squad duels in mine.

 

The point is, there is tons of zones with similar arenas, similar maps, and !@#$%^&*, even some have the exact same ones, as developers jump around zones, or zones just do it, and neither one cares. I just don't see enough evidence to merit this a copy.

 

That is true Polix, both maps are pretty basic and the designs are too generic to merit any originality. The 1s and 4s, do appear in the same location tho. This really isnt an issue, it should be dropped and credit should be given to the guy that discovered geometry

[»doc flabby]

TW ?go ambush = ?go riot EG

 

This kinda things been going on a long time.